Ron Starts The Blame Game

[juanpablo 0]

Kimi has been pushing too hard and lacks the calm collected manner that Fernando seems to display with his driving. Kimi's qualifying for Brazil depicts this perfectly.

kimi has made his fair share of mistakes...however kaiser..I think the situation demanded that he push really hard, and he was under pressure to score more than alonso, while all alonso needed to do was finish regularly ... therefore, alonso's calmness might have evaporated had he been in kimi's shoes having to push for the wins

kimi went in to Italy, brazil etc knowing he had to give his all..and he probably gave a bit more ..and paid for it too...but full credit to him for trying...

both of them have been brilliant this season...

[bajo39 0]

I totally agree there...I find it ridiculous that JPM is (unsurprisingly) being blamed for kimi failing to get the WDC

Yes, I am sorry Juanpablo, I should have qualified my argument by stating that it was assuming the poor reliability could not be helped...

[demonhorse 0]

Yes of course, I should have mentioned that. Obviously the reliability of the package was the major cause of McLaren's failings this season but with the equipment they had, they still could have won but did not. The reason they did not, I think you will agree, was largely down to Montoya. Yes?

or kimi.... depends which way you look at it. It was after all KIMI who had the closer chance of the drivers title.... but that is conveniently ignored so people can slag monty off in a way he doesnt necessarily deserve.

[Null 0]

of course the situation made kimi push hard. However, when Alonso pushed hard this season, for example, Imola, he kept his cool and made no mistakes.

[bajo39 0]

or kimi.... depends which way you look at it. It was after all KIMI who had the closer chance of the drivers title.... but that is conveniently ignored so people can slag monty off in a way he doesnt necessarily deserve.

Kimi has performed admirably this season and met or exceeded expectations of him, Juan Montoya has performed poorly and has not met expectations in the least. While I agree you could blame Kimi, you would be a fool to do so in light of the above.

[Senna 0]

I totally agree there...I find it ridiculous that JPM is (unsurprisingly) being blamed for kimi failing to get the WDC

Yes but you must agree that JPM has not been particularly helpful towards Kimi and that his mistakes have hurt Kimi

[juanpablo 0]

of course the situation made kimi push hard. However, when Alonso pushed hard this season, for example, Imola, he kept his cool and made no mistakes.

he had to push hard in montreal too...he made a mistake and retired....

[bajo39 0]

Yes but you must agree that JPM has not been particularly helpful towards Kimi and that his mistakes have hurt Kimi

[demonhorse 0]

You have listed but a fraction of his failings this season and I'd like a response to my follow-up posts

yeh, you do that while i just draw up the list of how many times kimi broke his car VS monty breaking his car....

[juanpablo 0]

Yes but you must agree that JPM has not been particularly helpful towards Kimi and that his mistakes have hurt Kimi

[Null 0]

he had to push hard in montreal too...he made a mistake and retired....

Yes... I know.... that has already been talked about in this topic

[bajo39 0]

yeh, you do that while i just draw up the list of how many times kimi broke his car VS monty breaking his car....

[Senna 0]

Kimi has performed admirably this season and met or exceeded expectations of him, Juan Montoya has performed poorly and has not met expectations in the least. While I agree you could blame Kimi, you would be a fool to do so in light of the above.

I agree entirely with this one Bajo!

Bajo, if you could, please compile a list of JPM

[bajo39 0]

I agree entirely with this one Bajo!

That is a good start Senna but I am still slightly perturbed that we apparently do not see eye to eye on the causes of McLaren's failure to capture a double this season. Setting aside the reliability as the obvious cause (and fairly, on the basis that the situation could not be helped), where do you attribute blame?

I agree entirely with this one Bajo!

Bajo, if you could, please compile a list of JPM

[johndifo 0]

Perhaps he forgot JPM black flag, why didn't McLaren made a rules quiz to JPM when they hired him?

Or when they let Kimi's car racing in "Im gonna blow" mode, did they think that was an aceptable machine? And what if that loose wheel have hitted Alonso right in the head? No problem with backmarkers

He speaks with some big reason, thats fair, but he seems to forgot their own errors.

[bajo39 0]

why didn't McLaren made a rules quiz to JPM when they hired him?

He speaks with some big reason, thats fair, but he seems to forgot their own errors.

Indeed, they made a most-serious error in assessing Montoya's suitability as a supporting driver in a championship campaign.

[juanpablo 0]

Indeed, they made a most-serious error in assessing Montoya's suitability as a supporting driver in a championship campaign.

yes...they assessed him not as a supporting driver...but as a potential WDC candidate....so u are rite there bajo...even though I know that is not what u meant !

[Senna 0]

Indeed, they made a most-serious error in assessing Montoya's suitability as a supporting driver in a championship campaign.

Indeed. He is not a team player at all. Drivers like DC and Eddie Irvine had personal ambitions like any other driver but they were loyal team players and were very helpful in similar situations

[bajo39 0]

Bajo, if you could, please compile a list of JPM

[Monty 0]

Why don't I poll this forum and see if you and Senna are biased towards Montoya? IF the majority agrees with me then your argument would be baseless. Right?

[bajo39 0]

Why don't I poll this forum and see if you and Senna are biased towards Montoya? IF the majority agrees with me then your argument would be baseless. Right?

[Karta 0]

Monty, Bajo is fanatic and not kind of change views

Montoya cost Kimi Title? ROFL! Sorry, but reasons for that are self centered: driving mistakes (smaller effect) and equipment problems (bigger effect). Not many seem to recall the beginning of season: Alonso won due to 4 first races and McLaren problems with reliability in rest of them.

[kiko01 0]

Monty, Bajo is fanatic and not kind of change views

Montoya cost Kimi Title? ROFL! Sorry, but reasons for that are self centered: driving mistakes (smaller effect) and equipment problems (bigger effect). Not many seem to recall the beginning of season: Alonso won due to 4 first races and McLaren problems with reliability in rest of them.

You

[nojvnof1 0]

Alonso did crash at Canada and ‘leave’ the circuit at the Nurburgring at least once and Alonso’s mistakes are not really mentioned…

that is the only mistake FA has made all year. Running off at he 'Ring didn't cost him the win, Kimi's mistakes at the 'Ring did.

McLaren's unreliability cost Kimi the world title not JPM although the Columbian aided Alonso slightly at several Grand Prix to the obvious detriment of the iceman but Montoya was not at all a major factor.

brilliantly put.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

JPM is a team player when he needs to be and when he is in a position to do so. This season there has rarely been a situation where jpm is ahead of kimi and could move over to help kimi get extra points. Senna it sounds like you're suggesting jpm should have slowed alonso for kimi to pass, then slowed him more to let someone else past too. Thats ridiculous and unrealistic. I think mclaren had accepted the drivers title was out of reach, and were happy to just have a 1-2 situation for once