Mclaren Luck

[Karta 0]

Have to say Mclaren was darn lucky in its misfortune. Engine failure gave KR better strategy than other top 2 team racers and i even dare to say that Montoya crash was good for Mclaren as well. See, if he had not crashed and SC had not come out Fisi would have won most likely and i do not think KR had made it higher than third place. Alonso would have probably stayed ahead of Montoya (if not also KR considering as rest of the race would have gone differently) so gap would been bigger than it is now imo:P

What you guys think of this?

[Wez 0]

Possibly,

And the FIA stuffed up Alonso's race!!!

[Jenson_Rules 0]

kimi's charge will lead to his engine dying some time this weekend!

[Wez 0]

kimi's charge will lead to his engine dying some time this weekend!

O, I do hope so.... just to show everyone how "unlucky" he is!

[Jem of the Shire 0]

O, I do hope so.... just to show everyone how "unlucky" he is!

oh please, are you serious? You really think drivers should not drive to the limit of their car, just to save the engine? Drivers should be able to drive as fast as they can possibly go, without the engine breaking. If kimi hadnt driven to the limit in japan he wouldnt have won. Kimi has been extremely unlucky this year and you must get used to that fact! Only on this website have I seen people saying that mclaren engine failures are down to the driver. Ridiculous

[Null 0]

engine failures can be down to the driver, it is a possibility. however, it seems funny that kimi gets all the crap engines and surely there would be stricter QC...

Tha last lap at the european GP will always stick in mind for kimi not having "the luck"

Jemstride, the same could be said for a road car. If you have to go at full pelt for ages like kimi does, then you start your car up the day after you'll not have as good a-engine as you had before! Engine wear is something which cannot be avoided!

[ecapdeville 0]

oh please, are you serious? You really think drivers should not drive to the limit of their car, just to save the engine? Drivers should be able to drive as fast as they can possibly go, without the engine breaking. If kimi hadnt driven to the limit in japan he wouldnt have won. Kimi has been extremely unlucky this year and you must get used to that fact! Only on this website have I seen people saying that mclaren engine failures are down to the driver. Ridiculous

Happens that kimi doesnt know that yet...his engine is not as reliable as he would like...I bet you anything that Kimi

[Jenson_Rules 0]

alonso hasnt had 1 engine failure this year! Montoya has had 1 or 2 but im not overly sure, but Kimi has had tonnes! Dont you think thats very strange! Im sure mercades dont give both drivers different engines!

[markus5a 0]

alonso hasnt had 1 engine failure this year! Montoya has had 1 or 2 but im not overly sure, but Kimi has had tonnes! Dont you think thats very strange! Im sure mercades dont give both drivers different engines!

that's because montoya can save his engine by crashing out early

[Null 0]

Alonso and Fisi have both been very conservative in standards compared with kimi with their engines

[Kennye 0]

that's because montoya can save his engine by crashing out early

Love it, thanks for the laugh.

I am sure there is a flaw in the engine this year and that Kimi's driving style or the way he is shifting is just bringing it out. There have been to many failures from him and not JPM to think it is a design flaw where pushing it to the limit will cause the failure. JPM has set some fast laps and not had the failure, but as markusa5a says above, maybe he is just not driving the car long enough...

[demonhorse 0]

oh please, are you serious? You really think drivers should not drive to the limit of their car, just to save the engine?

Err ever read the FIAs rules about having ONE engine for every TWO Race Weekends?

If he can't manage at least THAT then for all the wins he may get, he will NEVER be a WDC.

and I've seen similar comments to my own and Kaisers on other forums, naming 1 BESTF1chat. Thing is mods are trigger happy and delete every post they disagree with because they share your deluded belief that Kimi can do no wrong and all his misfortune is down to a driver he doesnt often see much of during actual racing.

[Senna 0]

kimi's charge will lead to his engine dying some time this weekend!

If it did die it would be the result of a poorly constructed engine, not the fault of the driver doing well in the previous race

[demonhorse 0]

If it did die it would be the result of a poorly constructed engine, not the fault of the driver doing well in the previous race

[Dogster 0]

I REALLY dont believe Mclaren's luck again!!!. Its either one of the drivers didnt make the finishing line or they cant compete.(besides Brazil.) WTF is wrong with em? Previously, Kimi, now Montoya. If Kimi wants to win, why does he always have to work so damn hard to win? I am sooooo damn frustrated. Being a Mclaren support for soooo long its a disappointment to see them coming second again and again!!

I was wondering whether their black color did messed up their luck.

They ought to change their color. Full metalic sliver. AND stick a LUCKY CHARM on their car.

What do ya McLaren supporters reckon they should change?

[kiko01 0]

I REALLY dont believe Mclaren's luck again!!!. Its either one of the drivers didnt make the finishing line or they cant compete.(besides Brazil.) WTF is wrong with em? Previously, Kimi, now Montoya. If Kimi wants to win, why does he always have to work so damn hard to win? I am sooooo damn frustrated. Being a Mclaren support for soooo long its a disappointment to see them coming second again and again!!

I was wondering whether their black color did messed up their luck.

They ought to change their color. Full metalic sliver. AND stick a LUCKY CHARM on their car.

What do ya McLaren supporters reckon they should change?

Hi Dogster and wellcome...

Chill out and enjoy the forum.

[jjoseph 0]

I REALLY dont believe Mclaren's luck again!!!. Its either one of the drivers didnt make the finishing line or they cant compete.(besides Brazil.) WTF is wrong with em? Previously, Kimi, now Montoya. If Kimi wants to win, why does he always have to work so damn hard to win? I am sooooo damn frustrated. Being a Mclaren support for soooo long its a disappointment to see them coming second again and again!!

I was wondering whether their black color did messed up their luck.

They ought to change their color. Full metalic sliver. AND stick a LUCKY CHARM on their car.

What do ya McLaren supporters reckon they should change?

Umm, silver metalic will looks awesome.

to the forum Dogster

[Jenson_Rules 0]

No i think the livery of the marlboro days was far far nicer. I think mclaren come accross too cold now!

[jjoseph 0]

No i think the livery of the marlboro days was far far nicer. I think mclaren come accross too cold now!

Thats because the Iceman is driving

[Jenson_Rules 0]

hmmmm!

[Senna 0]

Welcome Dogster!

[Dogster 0]

Thanks mates.

[funkejay 0]

oh please, are you serious? You really think drivers should not drive to the limit of their car, just to save the engine? Drivers should be able to drive as fast as they can possibly go, without the engine breaking. If kimi hadnt driven to the limit in japan he wouldnt have won. Kimi has been extremely unlucky this year and you must get used to that fact! Only on this website have I seen people saying that mclaren engine failures are down to the driver. Ridiculous

I don't believe it - jemstride and I actually agree on something - its so surreal.................

[funkejay 0]

Jemstride, the same could be said for a road car. If you have to go at full pelt for ages like kimi does, then you start your car up the day after you'll not have as good a-engine as you had before! Engine wear is something which cannot be avoided!

Sorry Kaiser, but your analogy to a road car is off the mark.

F1 engines are extremely high strung pieces of precision equipment that are designed to last exactly 1200 km, no more. The reason is that engine design and manufacture is always a compromise between power and reliability. It is easy to make a 1000+ hp V10 F1 engine, every one of the manufacturers can do it, but no one has yet figured out how to make that same engine last 1200km.

As a result, each manufacturer is forced to try and find the perfect balance between power and reliability, but as with all compromises, the greater the emphasis on power, the less emphasis there will be on reliability, and vice versa. Therefore, the best engine is one that strikes the perfect balance between maximizing power while building in enough reliability to make it to the end of 1200km. Based on that assumption, if the engine lasts even one more km than necessary, you've put more emphasis on durability than you needed to.

When you're talking about 950 hp engines that run at absolute full throttle at or near 70% of their operating time, there is always a fair degree of unpredictability involved, as the tolerances at that level of performance are imperceptibly small. A difference of only a few microns can make the difference between an engine that lasts the full distance it was designed for, and one that fails after only a quarter of that distance.

Unfortunately, because these tolerances are so minute, it is impossible to know which of these engines will fail, and which will not. Obviously Mercedes have been struggling with reliability this season in their attempt to catch up to Renault, and have therefore placed greater emphasis on performance and power, with the predictable loss in durability.

As it happens, KR appeared to receive more than his share of those faulty engines, but that was just the result of random chance. As any statitician will tell you, just because your odds are the same as someone else's, it doesn't mean that they will come to you at the same time, or in the same order. All other things being equal, if the season was long enough, the odds would have caught up to JPM, and balanced the score between he and KR.

As a result, although it is true that KR's failures were not so much "bad luck", as random chance, it cannot be said that he was to blame for them because of his driving style. Were that the case, you would have heard someone from Mercedes suggesting just that before now.

[nojvnof1 0]

welcome to the forums Dogster