Men Are Smarter Than Women

[cavallino 2]

You said that at first glance it sounds ridiculous but I would propose to you that upon further study you'll find it quite reasonable. Maybe if the article doesn't do it for you, you could read the entire study?

It is a known fact that men have physically larger brains than women so why is it ridiculous that we also have higher IQs?

I didn't say it's ridiculous, but I need proof, and a more representative study, I have grave doubts about this one for the reasons outlined above. Just like global warming (for example) we're not dealing with absolutes here ans as such it is a ratehr difficult thing to 'prove'.

This study should be in my university, let me see if I can dig it up and make any sense of it.

[Ctrl300 0]

Devil is back. Hurray.

Take care.

When everything started to get nice its all gone...

Thats it for me.

[bajo39 0]

I didn't say it's ridiculous, but I need proof, and a more representative study, I have grave doubts about this one for the reasons outlined above. Just like global warming (for example) we're not dealing with absolutes here ans as such it is a ratehr difficult thing to 'prove'.

This study should be in my university, let me see if I can dig it up and make any sense of it.

Indeed, you should look at it. I think the researcher's probably put together a more compelling case than the media portray - afertall, which media outlet wants to put an article that could potentially offend irrational (most) women?

Anyway, the study was the biggest of its kind - over 100,000 samples were collected - and the first study to compare intelligence in males and females beyond grade school. It might be more significant than you give it credit for...

[cavallino 2]

Have it open here, it's long and tedious reading (as it should be), finding an informed critique of it would be better.

[narain fan 0]

snip

Not that I love to be criticized by perfectionists (I have had quite a few of them trying to get under my skin).but I would rather read that instead of a whiner sporadically posting nonsense. And nothing related even remotely to F1 or his favourite star Sato or Webber

[Max Mosley 2]

I am according to many around me, very clever, though I have a lack of self belief.

In my experience women often do and its becoming clear that its one of the main reasons women earn less than men. Take some advice from typically confident/arrogant men like myself and Dan, if you don't believe in your abilities no one else will. Actually, why don't you let us men walk all over you like earlier generations of women have!Men rule!

That's biological

I suspect its both that and cultural: how many men take the same interest in their own health as women do? Btw good to have you back!

As for the study, I am open to opinions on the subject, but on first glance this sounds ridiculous. It is based on SAT scores If you went by SAT scores, Indians would have superhuman intelligence compared to Americans. Also since I answered every single question in the SAT exam, I must either be superhuman, or far more likely SAT and by inference this study do not even test the limits of intelligence.

There's quite a lot of evidence to suggest that Indians are pretty clever. Despite this forum, few would question Asians' intelligence, only your driving ability.

Have it open here, it's long and tedious reading (as it should be), finding an informed critique of it would be better.

There's a critique, very critical, in Nature, by Blinkhorn, see below. I read up about it after the Summers controversy. The conclusion I reached was that general intellegence is very difficult to define and measure but you don't have to, in order to say meaningful things. Its quite widely accepted, though by no means univerally (and not by Lynn), that men show greater variance than women in ability. If this were true then more of the smartest and stupidest people around would be men. There's some agreement too on the view that women and men are better at different things on average. Women generally beat men on short-term memory skills, which are important in the memorisation of new facts, terminology, verbal fluency etc. Men generally show much better spatial reasoning and slightly better mathematical reasoning. Thus one could probably construct IQ tests to give whatever result one wanted simply by changing the balance of the questions. Nevertheless, these results might explain why fewer women go into engineering or maths, if they were true, without postulating discrimination.

Doreen Kimura gives a balanced view imho, though even she argues that there is discrimination against men in certain academic fields.

Doreen Kimura's work

Here is the research supporting average IQ differences. Personally I think most of these studies are a bit dodgy because they use uni admissions data or the like, without accounting for the fact that more women go to uni now.

Lynn's Publications

Rushton's Publications

Here's Blinkhorn's rebuttal. (Lynn replies and Blinkhorn counters again elsewhere in Nature!)

No IQ differences

If you can't access Nature

More debate

In any case the differences within genders are much greater than the 0-5 IQ point differences being debated, and there will be many women and men at all ability ranges.

[bajo39 0]

There's a critique, very critical, in Nature, by Blinkhorn, see below. I read up about it after the Summers controversy. The conclusion I reached was that general intellegence is very difficult to define and measure but you don't have to, in order to say meaningful things. Its quite widely accepted, though by no means univerally (and not by Lynn), that men show greater variance than women in ability. If this were true then more of the smartest and stupidest people around would be men. There's some agreement too on the view that women and men are better at different things on average. Women generally beat men on short-term memory skills, which are important in the memorisation of new facts, terminology, verbal fluency etc. Men generally show much better spatial reasoning and slightly better mathematical reasoning. Thus one could probably construct IQ tests to give whatever result one wanted simply by changing the balance of the questions. Nevertheless, these results might explain why fewer women go into engineering or maths, if they were true, without postulating discrimination.

Doreen Kimura gives a balanced view imho, though even she argues that there is discrimination against men in certain academic fields.

Doreen Kimura's work

Here is the research supporting average IQ differences. Personally I think most of these studies are a bit dodgy because they use uni admissions data or the like, without accounting for the fact that more women go to uni now.

Lynn's Publications

Rushton's Publications

Here's Blinkhorn's rebuttal. (Lynn replies and Blinkhorn counters again elsewhere in Nature!)

No IQ differences

If you can't access Nature

More debate

In any case the differences within genders are much greater than the 0-5 IQ point differences being debated, and there will be many women and men at all ability ranges.

Very good, Murray.

[Max Mosley 2]

Cheers Dan. I thought I'd post up what I thought to get the forum's opinions on my opinions!

[cavallino 2]

In my experience women often do and its becoming clear that its one of the main reasons women earn less than men. Take some advice from typically confident/arrogant men like myself and Dan, if you don't believe in your abilities no one else will. Actually, why don't you let us men walk all over you like earlier generations of women have!Men rule!

I suspect its both that and cultural: how many men take the same interest in their own health as women do? Btw good to have you back!

There's quite a lot of evidence to suggest that Indians are pretty clever.

Not what I meant - from what I know Indian students end up doing better in SAT simply because they have done harder mathematics, and have learnt to do it faster and importantly without using calculators (we are or at least were not allowed to ues calculators in school, an excellent thing imo)

Despite this forum, few would question Asians' intelligence, only your driving ability.

Tongue firmly stuck in cheek as always I see. Indians usually are extremely skilled drivers (oh boy I am asking for a Karthikeyan joke aren't I?) - you have to be just to survive on the road, we just suck at following road rules

Thanks for the links, I'll have a look tomorrow

Intuitively of course, there is no reason to believe that there is no difference in the male and female brain - different kinds of autism spectrum disorders for example can be more common in either sex.

[Max Mosley 2]

Yeah. I think the assumption that we're identical is a remnant of an out-dated version of feminism.

More important that any IQ differences are differences in personalities. Everyone knows testosterone (for instance) improves self-belief and confidence. It probably makes us more competitive and obsesssive too. Feminists who deny this are just hurting young women, who would be better off knowing these facts so that they can bear them in mind when they turn up to work or make choices in life. With a bit of extra, conscious, effort presumably women can make themselves compete just as hard.

[bajo39 0]

Indians usually are extremely skilled drivers (oh boy I am asking for a Karthikeyan joke aren't I?) - you have to be just to survive on the road, we just suck at following road rules

If only they could apply the sort of skill we see in the clip below to road racing...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg9f93gpfbo

Intuitively of course, there is no reason to believe that there is no difference in the male and female brain - different kinds of autism spectrum disorders for example can be more common in either sex.

Indeed, men and women have many body parts that are different, why should their brains not be different too?

[pumpdoc 2]

Indeed, men and women have many body parts that are different, why should their brains not be different too?

.....and that's the crux of the matter, women have what all men want and they hold the magic key that lets you in(unless you have roofies )

[bajo39 0]

.....and that's the crux of the matter, women have what all men want and they hold the magic key that lets you in (unless you have roofies )

[cavallino 2]

If only they could apply the sort of skill we see in the clip below to road racing...

Motor racing is just too damn expensive

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg9f93gpfbo

I miss driving at home.

[bajo39 0]

Motor racing is just too damn expensive

For us all my friend, trust me!

[Kopite Girl 0]

You see, the moral of this is don't employ women. They're unpredictable and could up and leave at any time to have a baby, never to return. And whenever 1 leaves you have to try and recruit someone who can do the job just as well. Stay at home like the old days I say

I enjoy a good laugh now and again, Jem.

But seriously, did it kill your mum when you came out?!

[pumpdoc 2]

I enjoy a good laugh now and again, Jem.

But seriously, did it kill your mum when you came out?!

No but the nurses dropped him on the floor

[Max Mosley 2]

And the moral of the story: even hospitals shouldn't employ women! Why do we even trust them to give birth?

PS Head I can understand but birth?

[Autumnpuma 0]

And the moral of the story: even hospitals shouldn't employ women! Why do we even trust them to give birth?

PS Head I can understand but birth?

We come out then spend all our lives trying to get back in

[Max Mosley 2]

[irishfemalefan 0]

i have just started a new job teaching kids english

i have 3 groups, 1 with only girls & 1 with 7 boys & 1 girl. At this young age (they are 4-7) its already very clear that the girls are much cleverer than the boys, enjoy learning & are absorbing everything. They are also a pleasure to teach!!

This may change & level out a bit as they get older but definitely, in my experience, girls are smarter than boys

[Kati 0]

No but the nurses dropped him on the floor

I actually dont think it happened by birth... Maybe when he learned his first steps he tried to attemp suicide by hitting his own head on the wall...

[Max Mosley 2]

i have just started a new job teaching kids english

i have 3 groups, 1 with only girls & 1 with 7 boys & 1 girl. At this young age (they are 4-7) its already very clear that the girls are much cleverer than the boys, enjoy learning & are absorbing everything. They are also a pleasure to teach!!

This may change & level out a bit as they get older but definitely, in my experience, girls are smarter than boys

One of the main proponents of the theory that there is a difference in mean IQ between men and women, Lynn, has this to say of his so-called "developmental" theory (from the attached file, if anyone cares):

In 1992, it was reported by Ankney and Rushton that males have larger average brain size than

females even when allowance is made for body size. It is known that brain size is associated with

intelligence, and it would therefore be expected that males would have higher intelligence than

females. Yet it has been universally maintained that there is no difference in intelligence between

the sexes. It is proposed that this anomaly can be resolved by a developmental theory of sex

differences in intelligence which states that girls mature more rapidly in brain size and

neurological development than boys up to the age of 15 years. The faster maturation of girls up to

this age compensates for their smaller brain size with the result that sex differences in intelligence

are very small, except for some of the spatial abilities. From the age of 16 years onwards, the

growth rate of girls decelerates relative to that of boys. The effect of this is that a discernible male

advantage of about 4 IQ points develops from the age of 16 into adulthood, consistent with the

larger average male brain size. This paper presents new evidence on the developmental theory of

sex differences in intelligence and discusses alternative attempts to deal with the anomaly by

Ankney (1995), Mackintosh (1996), and Jensen (1998).

Notice even he admits there are alternative theories. Anyway it seems that most scientists agree that below 15 years of age there's little difference in IQ - although girls are renowned for learning language much faster as you've noticed! Girls are probably more sensible and mature too. I think we can say that last sex difference remains well into adulthood. I wonder what the difference would be if we could measure it on an IQ scale...

I actually dont think it happened by birth... Maybe when he learned his first steps he tried to attemp suicide by hitting his own head on the wall...

Yeah I tried that too. Five times. But it didn't work...

Glad you're enjoying life in Spain Irish. Are the boys all called Fernando and do they all whine as much as I imagine?

[kup 0]

! EXCEPT TAKUMA SATO !

HE MUST BE BANNED 1 GP ! NEXT ONE IS JAPAN ? - NICE !

"TEAMS TACTICS" (HONDA) ARE OUTLAW !

[bajo39 0]

! EXCEPT TAKUMA SATO !

HE MUST BE BANNED 1 GP ! NEXT ONE IS JAPAN ? - NICE !

"TEAMS TACTICS" (HONDA) ARE OUTLAW !

You seem very passionate about something. What is it?