Ctrl300 0 Report post Posted November 17, 2006 Your the one that said something utterly pointless. No. What I did was to confirm that I agree with Chris in absolute terms and that there was IMO nothing more that could be added with regards to DC's hilarious and overly optimistic statement. Go have a cookie and a glass of hot milk. It must be way past your bedtime. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ykickamoocow 0 Report post Posted November 17, 2006 No. What I did was to confirm that I agree with Chris in absolute terms and that there was IMO nothing more that could be added with regards to DC's hilarious and overly optimistic statement. Then why didnt you simly say "I agree" Go have a cookie and a glass of hot milk. It must be way past your bedtime. I live in Australia so call them biscuits. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pumpdoc 2 Report post Posted November 17, 2006 I could torment ykick on this but being a fan of D.C. is tormenting enough, ykick must have nightmares so bad that he sleeps with the light on.................... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ctrl300 0 Report post Posted November 17, 2006 I could torment ykick on this but being a fan of D.C. is tormenting enough, ykick must have nightmares so bad that he sleeps with the light on.................... Or suffers from insomnia, which sems to be the case. BTW Bruce, happy 114, may you live to be at least 187! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Loser Boy 0 Report post Posted November 17, 2006 This topic should have been in the "Jokes" thread. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DMB 0 Report post Posted November 17, 2006 I'm one of those typical fools who'll sit there all day convinced that anybody can win next season. I don't think i ever put it past anybody to win until the first race of the season. Unlikely as it is - we might even see a Toro Rosso or Spyker winning - we can't rule it out - we can simply deduce it as unlikely. With the DC thing ... i've got ykick's back ... how can you definitively say it's over before it's begun? First of all, it's an unsporting and uncompetetive attitude to sit back and pretty much insist you won't have a chance to win at all, secondly, Red Bull as a team have flourished and have all the right people. Newey is a proven winning value, same to Coulthard - and i believe Webber is just as capable. That team has so many influencial technical people that to out-right discount winning would be even more of a joke. Anybody here who actively criticises DC's comments as ludicrous, overly ambitious and so forth - Can't convince me they're serious Formula One fans because any true fan of the sport would recognize that winning is the ultimate goal. Therefore, let Coulthard suggest he can win, none of us are Red Bull Racing employees - We can't say they'll win or they won't. We can only base our predictions on testing, which in the greater scale of things really doesn't help. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ykickamoocow 0 Report post Posted November 17, 2006 I'm one of those typical fools who'll sit there all day convinced that anybody can win next season. I don't think i ever put it past anybody to win until the first race of the season. Unlikely as it is - we might even see a Toro Rosso or Spyker winning - we can't rule it out - we can simply deduce it as unlikely.With the DC thing ... i've got ykick's back ... how can you definitively say it's over before it's begun? First of all, it's an unsporting and uncompetetive attitude to sit back and pretty much insist you won't have a chance to win at all, secondly, Red Bull as a team have flourished and have all the right people. Newey is a proven winning value, same to Coulthard - and i believe Webber is just as capable. That team has so many influencial technical people that to out-right discount winning would be even more of a joke. Anybody here who actively criticises DC's comments as ludicrous, overly ambitious and so forth - Can't convince me they're serious Formula One fans because any true fan of the sport would recognize that winning is the ultimate goal. Therefore, let Coulthard suggest he can win, none of us are Red Bull Racing employees - We can't say they'll win or they won't. We can only base our predictions on testing, which in the greater scale of things really doesn't help. Your a very wise person and you are very correct. For all we know Spyker could accidently stumble onto a really fast car next year and they could be championship contendors. Just because it is unlikely doesnt mean its impossible. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ctrl300 0 Report post Posted November 17, 2006 I'm one of those typical fools who'll sit there all day convinced that anybody can win next season. I don't think i ever put it past anybody to win until the first race of the season. Unlikely as it is - we might even see a Toro Rosso or Spyker winning - we can't rule it out - we can simply deduce it as unlikely.With the DC thing ... i've got ykick's back ... how can you definitively say it's over before it's begun? First of all, it's an unsporting and uncompetetive attitude to sit back and pretty much insist you won't have a chance to win at all, secondly, Red Bull as a team have flourished and have all the right people. Newey is a proven winning value, same to Coulthard - and i believe Webber is just as capable. That team has so many influencial technical people that to out-right discount winning would be even more of a joke. Anybody here who actively criticises DC's comments as ludicrous, overly ambitious and so forth - Can't convince me they're serious Formula One fans because any true fan of the sport would recognize that winning is the ultimate goal. Therefore, let Coulthard suggest he can win, none of us are Red Bull Racing employees - We can't say they'll win or they won't. We can only base our predictions on testing, which in the greater scale of things really doesn't help. Factors that proves your optimistic pretense wrong: 1) Customer engine. Never in modern day F1 has a customer engine been up to scratch. Newey wanted the Renault not because he thought it would guarantee him fair/equal treatment to the factory team, but rather as it would fit his design ideas best. 2) RedBull lacks the technilcal partners. If you care to read their list of technical partners they have an east european logistics firm and a Austrian fruit juice subsiduary of RedBull. Compare that to, let say McLaren with BAE, EADS, Exxon/Mobil, Computer Associates, Schuco, Siemens, Mercedes-Benz, SAP, Henkel, Eisenmann, Advanced Composites Group, Charmilles, GA Yuasa, Enkei, 3D Systems, SGI etc. Now who would you think would have the cutting edge technology? Oh, I'm a slack yeawed yokel and I'll go with the soap box car...Get it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bajo39 0 Report post Posted November 17, 2006 Your a very wise person and you are very correct. For all we know Spyker could accidently stumble onto a really fast car next year and they could be championship contendors. Just because it is unlikely doesnt mean its impossible. Bull. DC has just about no chance of winning next year... If he does win, it will be under the same sort of conditions that Fisi won his first race and in that case we would all recognize it as a farce. As to DC's hopeful suggestions - they serve no useful purpose aside from comedic relief. In fact, one could make the case that they build unrealistic expectations and that when these are inevitably underachieved a they have a negative effect on morale. I like DC because he's the funniest man on the grid but he shouldn't emulate Button's mistakes... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AyrtonNumber1 0 Report post Posted November 17, 2006 If you guys are all so sure then you could let me know the final table for the WDC then. This game is all about racing, and DC is a pretty damn good racer. When the lights go out there'll be some competin' to be done. If he can get up front in Monaco he might stand a very slim chance Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bajo39 0 Report post Posted November 17, 2006 If you guys are all so sure then you could let me know the final table for the WDC then. This game is all about racing, and DC is a pretty damn good racer. When the lights go out there'll be some competin' to be done. If he can get up front in Monaco he might stand a very slim chance F1 hasn't been "all about racing" since the 1960s... Winning in F1 is about matching the right driver with the right car. DC is a good driver but he's not in the current top 3 and it's very unlikely that the Red Bull is going to be a top 3 car. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ctrl300 0 Report post Posted November 17, 2006 If you guys are all so sure then you could let me know the final table for the WDC then. This game is all about racing, and DC is a pretty damn good racer. When the lights go out there'll be some competin' to be done. If he can get up front in Monaco he might stand a very slim chance First off all, Welcome to the Forum! I would howver appreciate if you would change your name to AlainNumber1, but that can be left to another thread Well, as I have said, its not about being able to tell which of the 4-5 bigger teams will win, but rather sorting out whom are too light. As I already have pointed out, RedBull have been wheiged and found too light. Hence DC is talking trash just as most drivers do during the offseason. BTW, nice to have more McLaren people on the BB I will greatly appreciate if would care to become a regular as the McLaren squad has been diminnished after Kimi pulled a Quisling and moved to the Donkeys while the wonderboy (Fernando) moved to us. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AyrtonNumber1 0 Report post Posted November 17, 2006 F1 hasn't been "all about racing" since the 1960s... Winning in F1 is about matching the right driver with the right car. DC is a good driver but he's not in the current top 3 and it's very unlikely that the Red Bull is going to be a top 3 car. What was I thinking . First off all, Welcome to the Forum! I would howver appreciate if you would change your name to AlainNumber1, but that can be left to another thread Well, as I have said, its not about being able to tell which of the 4-5 bigger teams will win, but rather sorting out whom are too light. As I already have pointed out, RedBull have been wheiged and found too light. Hence DC is talking trash just as most drivers do during the offseason. BTW, nice to have more McLaren people on the BB I will greatly appreciate if would care to become a regular as the McLaren squad has been diminnished after Kimi pulled a Quisling and moved to the Donkeys while the wonderboy (Fernando) moved to us. Why don't you change your name to AlainNumber1 . Any chance we will ever see CoulthardNumber1? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ctrl300 0 Report post Posted November 17, 2006 Any chance we will ever see CoulthardNumber1? He is already a regular, he goes by the rather notorious ykickamoocow. I believ he would have married DC had he had the oportunity Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shane2 0 Report post Posted November 17, 2006 Some nonesense here. It is not impossible for a team to win using customer engines, and as they get the homologated V8's all limited to 19,000 RPM they are all on a very even playing field. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chris Strange 0 Report post Posted November 17, 2006 Some nonesense here. It is not impossible for a team to win using customer engines, and as they get the homologated V8's all limited to 19,000 RPM they are all on a very even playing field. It might be not impossible.... but the fact is so far it never happened. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shane2 0 Report post Posted November 17, 2006 Yep, but before now, we have never had such an evening out of the engine regs. I wouldn't put a DC challenge as overly likely for the title next year, but i dont think its impossible that they could win a race. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DMB 0 Report post Posted November 17, 2006 I don't mind people coming up with reason 1 to 10 about why Red Bull have no chance of coming within a whisker of a win next season, but there's no way to guarantee anything in racing, and we've seen before that some teams immediately click and are competetive without the necessary technical partners, engines, etc. How else do you explain that Jaguar were doing terrible one year, and abruptly under a different name but with a car designed by the preceeding Jaguar designers, they didn't do at all badly in 2005. Jordan were working wonders a few seasons ago, same to Williams - both now find themselves near the rear end of the grid. If it's that easy to fall backwards, can we not presume that it's just as easy for somebody to rise up? If sport were as predictable as everybody seems to suggest, i wouldn't even be a fan - As long as there is a logical possibility that Red Bull and DC will win a race - nobody can mathematically dispute DC's words. I do appreciate that others will disagree though, feel free to voice defeatist attitudes towards the team, but i know if i were in F1 i wouldn't go into a new season telling an experineced team of people who have won before that we don't have a chance at all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shane2 0 Report post Posted November 17, 2006 Williams can no longer compete in spending terms with teams like RBR, Ferrari, Renault, Toyota, and McLaren thats why theyre at the back of the grid (losing a works engine didnt help either) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sliderule 0 Report post Posted November 18, 2006 very unlikely that coulthard will win anything else in F1 and although a good driver he got typecast as a bullSh#tter while at mclaren when every year he promised that the coming year was going to be his and every year he got outraced by his teamates Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ctrl300 0 Report post Posted November 18, 2006 I don't mind people coming up with reason 1 to 10 about why Red Bull have no chance of coming within a whisker of a win next season, but there's no way to guarantee anything in racing, and we've seen before that some teams immediately click and are competetive without the necessary technical partners, engines, etc. How else do you explain that Jaguar were doing terrible one year, and abruptly under a different name but with a car designed by the preceeding Jaguar designers, they didn't do at all badly in 2005. Jordan were working wonders a few seasons ago, same to Williams - both now find themselves near the rear end of the grid. If it's that easy to fall backwards, can we not presume that it's just as easy for somebody to rise up? If sport were as predictable as everybody seems to suggest, i wouldn't even be a fan - As long as there is a logical possibility that Red Bull and DC will win a race - nobody can mathematically dispute DC's words. I do appreciate that others will disagree though, feel free to voice defeatist attitudes towards the team, but i know if i were in F1 i wouldn't go into a new season telling an experineced team of people who have won before that we don't have a chance at all. Going backwards is ten times as easy as going forwards. RedBull needs to make a quantum leap to win a race. Besides, look at the number of teams in front of them on the grid. They have to do better than BMW, Toyota, Honda, whom all have more and better resources available, and thats without mentioning the top three. The only midfield team I can see doing any improvements from last year is Williams, the rest will stay put. very unlikely that coulthard will win anything else in F1 and although a good driver he got typecast as a bullSh#tter while at mclaren when every year he promised that the coming year was going to be his and every year he got outraced by his teamates Indeed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ykickamoocow 0 Report post Posted November 18, 2006 Going backwards is ten times as easy as going forwards. RedBull needs to make a quantum leap to win a race. Besides, look at the number of teams in front of them on the grid. They have to do better than BMW, Toyota, Honda, whom all have more and better resources available, and thats without mentioning the top three. The only midfield team I can see doing any improvements from last year is Williams, the rest will stay put. You forget that Red Bull opened up a second wind tunnel in mid 2006 which means that Red Bull have had 2 wind tunnels working 24 hours a day on making the RB3. Red Bull have spent the most time out of any team designing there 2007 car. When everyone else in 2006 was upgrading their 2006 car Red Bull stopped and was fully commited to designing there 2007 car. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ctrl300 0 Report post Posted November 18, 2006 You forget that Red Bull opened up a second wind tunnel in mid 2006 which means that Red Bull have had 2 wind tunnels working 24 hours a day on making the RB3. Red Bull have spent the most time out of any team designing there 2007 car. When everyone else in 2006 was upgrading their 2006 car Red Bull stopped and was fully commited to designing there 2007 car. The second windtunnel is the only one really worth using as the first is rather outdated. Still, two or eight windtunnels does not matter. One need technical innovation to go underneath a good chassism for a car to be good. Can't see RedBull pulling that off. Besides, if they have been spending that much time on their new car, why did they not decide on the engine until last month? That mean that half the car could not be started on since the Renault and Ferrari engines differ that much in angle and shape. Lastly, Toyota started their 06 car development the earliest last year, and you saw where they ended up. Also, McLaren abandoned the development for the 21 rather early as they understood that they would not win any races and would rather secure Fernando a better car for 07. Lets see if either team manage to capitalise on the early start advantage. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ykickamoocow 0 Report post Posted November 18, 2006 The second windtunnel is the only one really worth using as the first is rather outdated. Still, two or eight windtunnels does not matter. One need technical innovation to go underneath a good chassism for a car to be good. Can't see RedBull pulling that off. We dont know why old their original wind tunnel is but it did help in the design of the RB1 which was a reasonably successful car. The 2nd wind tunnel is state of the art so it should be extremely useful. Besides, if they have been spending that much time on their new car, why did they not decide on the engine until last month? That mean that half the car could not be started on since the Renault and Ferrari engines differ that much in angle and shape. For all we know they decided on the Renault engine months before they annonced it to the media. Lastly, Toyota started their 06 car development the earliest last year, and you saw where they ended up. Do you have a article to back that up because i havent heard that. Also, McLaren abandoned the development for the 21 rather early as they understood that they would not win any races and would rather secure Fernando a better car for 07. Lets see if either team manage to capitalise on the early start advantage. Again i havent heard that McLaren abandoned the development of the MP4-21 early. Do you have a article to back up that statement. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ctrl300 0 Report post Posted November 18, 2006 We dont know why old their original wind tunnel is but it did help in the design of the RB1 which was a reasonably successful car. The 2nd wind tunnel is state of the art so it should be extremely useful.For all we know they decided on the Renault engine months before they annonced it to the media. Do you have a article to back that up because i havent heard that. Again i havent heard that McLaren abandoned the development of the MP4-21 early. Do you have a article to back up that statement. http://www.toyota-f1.com/public/en/newslist/20051128.html TF106 Car revealed in November 2005. Two months before the McLaren MP4-21 I am pretty sure Ron went to the press and admitted as much. The timeline for the MP4-21 (2005 car): First engine design meeting: August 2004 Engine specification first issue: October 2004 Layout work started on MP4-21: April 2005 First design meeting: April 2005 Gearbox simulation: Mid April 2005 Car specification first issue: May 2005 First scheming of gearbox: May 2005 First dyno test for V8 engine: June 2005 Windtunnel work commences: Early July 2005 First drawing for gearbox: July 2005 Datum sheet Issue, final dimensions: August 2005 First track test for V8 engine: September 2005 Gearbox production begun: September 2005 Chassis manufacturing begun: October 2005 Car mock-up ready: * Chassis November 2005 * Initial engine November 2005 * Final engine December 2005 First chassis ready for bonding: December 2005 FIA test on first chassis: December 2005 First car build started: December 2005 First car build finished: January 2006 First track test of MP4-21: 23rd January 2006 Cars depart McLaren Technology Centre for first race: Friday 3rd March 2006 I know they started the work on the 22 earlier and put more resources into it since it was ont a contender in any sense of the word. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites