Hungary 06

[Kay 0]

Lol Jem it was a fluke, if it was a dry race he would have never won. For me MS really impressed me that race i know he made some mistakes but still at the end of the race he was driving 2nd with them Sh#tty bridgestones and i still dont know how he managed to get infront of PDLR in that race. Shame that his suspention broke.

And u got alot of things wrong mate.

I am pretty sure MS didnt spun in that race, it was FM that spun afew times. When MS broke his wings hardly his fault if the car hasnt got grip.. and MS did collide with Nick but that wasnt the cause of his DNF

And if JB is really that good driver in wet why didnt he win in China it was also wet? Simple answer MS,FA,GF didnt have such a bad race like in hungary.

Just to point afew things out

JB should have won a race in 04 since he had the second best car on the grid but he didnt instead drivers like kimi, JPM and JT won with worst cars...

I am just pointing thinks out i hope you wont be offended

Ty for reading

If you use the argument that it was a fluke because others were on a bad day, then almost every race in the history of F1 was a fluke. If you actually count these factors then you have to believe Button would have won at least one previous race if only he wasn't on the wrong tyres or his car failed etc etc.

The problem people have when trying to discredit a race win, is they end up discrediting other race wins and eventually it ends up that every race is worthless for one reason or another. A win is a win, in the wet or in the dry, in the best car or the worst car, on a good day or a bad day. Some people need to realise that.

[Sato 0]

Lol Jem it was a fluke, if it was a dry race he would have never won.

If MS didn't have dominate cars its quite likely he'd have a lot less WDC's... So they must of been a fluke too.

[Kay 0]

Ive already given you a step by spet reasoning why each driver wasnt in a position to win. Half the field was stuffed even before the race began because in car on Bridgetone tyres was going to win. That takes away one of the fastest teams, Fisi made a error which was his fault but Alonso had a wheel nut problem and was forced to retire because of it. The 4 fastest cars on the grid were not in contention for victory which does leave Honda as they were often the 3rd fastest team in field.

Yet you fail to mention that before the race Button was almost stuffed because of his engine failure. Very clever.

[proavenger 0]

If you use the argument that it was a fluke because others were on a bad day, then almost every race in the history of F1 was a fluke. If you actually count these factors then you have to believe Button would have won at least one previous race if only he wasn't on the wrong tyres or his car failed etc etc.

The problem people have when trying to discredit a race win, is they end up discrediting other race wins and eventually it ends up that every race is worthless for one reason or another. A win is a win, in the wet or in the dry, in the best car or the worst car, on a good day or a bad day. Some people need to realise that.

For me it was a fluke, if FA car didnt break he would have won. If kimi didnt have that unlucky accident he would have finished aheid of button. If Sh#tstones would have provided a better wet tyre maybe even MS could have won. A real race winner is when you beat a competator that has no problems during the race or beat a competator when you are in a inferior car thats a real win. When you win and more than half of the field have problems, that means that you really didnt beat anyone but got lucky since they had problems and you didnt.

I remember afew years back when MH car broke down on the last lap and MS won that race and that was a fluke win, just like people are saying that Ferrari 1-2 win in USA 05 was a fluke which it was.

Thats why people are saying that FA 05 WDC was a fluke since the mclarens were 50% less reliable. It was hardly kimi's fault if the car simply didnt last...

Btw Jem here are some vid of China 2006

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_quer...p;search=Search

Enjoy

[proavenger 0]

Yet you fail to mention that before the race Button was almost stuffed because of his engine failure. Very clever.

Yea JB has an engine failure but that didnt matter since it was a wet race that didnt really mean anything. MS and FA had both penaltys and after the first few laps they were both driving in top 5 if i remember correcly. When there is a wet race it dosent really matter where you start, alot of people have won from the back when there is a wet race. It matters more where you start when there is a dry race.

[proavenger 0]

If MS didn't have dominate cars its quite likely he'd have a lot less WDC's... So they must of been a fluke too.

Lol yea MS had good cars over the years but thats because Ferrari team and MS worked hard to make good cars. And just because MS had a better car that dosent mean its a fluke, a fluke win is when the competators are having a bad day at the offcice and you get lucky.

Dont tell me that all of the competators had 18 unlucky races...

[Player(1) 0]

Thats why people are saying that FA 05 WDC was a fluke since the mclarens were 50% less reliable. It was hardly kimi's fault if the car simply didnt last...

If they had bullet proof reliability and no mistakes from Kimi then won the WDC it would be considered a fluke aswell? seeing as he would luckily have a car over a second ahead of everyone else in pace and we know it wasent his input making it that way. Alonso still would have put more effort into winning the WDC in either case anyway so cant be considered a fluke since you dont consider Ferrari's domination year's flukes because of the driver input.

[proavenger 0]

If they had bullet proof reliability and no mistakes from Kimi then won the WDC it would be considered a fluke aswell? seeing as he would luckily have a car over a second ahead of everyone else in pace and we know it wasent his input making it that way. Alonso still would have put more effort into winning the WDC in either case anyway so cant be considered a fluke since you dont consider Ferrari's domination year's flukes because of the driver input.

Well i got nothing against FA wining the 05 WDC, i am just saying what some other people are saying.

[Sato 0]

But your logic is flawed, because you can use it to prove so many things that clearly aren't flukes are.

[pumpdoc 2]

Fluke or not, it's still only one win, there are a lot of "one hit wonders"....................

[Sato 0]

I doubt Button will end up with just the one.

[ykickamoocow 0]

I doubt Button will end up with just the one.

Who are you and what have you done with Sato?

[Sato 0]

As I've mentioned in the past I was a bit of a Button fan in 2000, and I've lately been thinking he cops a fair bit (from me a lot of the time!) and the only real reason I don't like him these days is the ridiculous hype, James Allen and the way some fans speak of him.... All of which aren't really his fault.

[Autumnpuma 0]

The only problem I have with this is that Alonso had his wheel nut fall off due to an error by his pit crew. Now we enter fantasy and say the question mark still remains that he could have caught Button. Were that to happen, Button, who is not a very good defensive driver, would have lost the lead.

Back to reality, and dealing with what is instead of what should be, Button did good to win, but as Bruce points out, he's simply one of many drivers to have won only one GP. Nothing special there.

I have always thought Button fast. He beat Alesi's times when he tested for Prost and that's good enough for me. Fast isn't going to make him WDC any more than it has made Kimi WDC. He needs consistency and the ability to operate at high levels for the whole season. Personally, I think he has it in him.

[Autumnpuma 0]

We got planes. Big heap planes, Americans sell us big heap planes which we use to shoot Argentina. You not happy, we happy. But broke.

[Kay 0]

The only problem I have with this is that Alonso had his wheel nut fall off due to an error by his pit crew. Now we enter fantasy and say the question mark still remains that he could have caught Button. Were that to happen, Button, who is not a very good defensive driver, would have lost the lead.

Back to reality, and dealing with what is instead of what should be, Button did good to win, but as Bruce points out, he's simply one of many drivers to have won only one GP. Nothing special there.

I have always thought Button fast. He beat Alesi's times when he tested for Prost and that's good enough for me. Fast isn't going to make him WDC any more than it has made Kimi WDC. He needs consistency and the ability to operate at high levels for the whole season. Personally, I think he has it in him.

If you take away the factors that didn't favour Alonso, surely you need to take away the fact Button had an engine failure. Also the pitcrew member wasn't the only one to make a mistake in that team that weekend..

I say if you take out the mistake his pitcrew made and the mistake Honda made with their engine, then you still have a Button win.

[Kay 0]

Yea JB has an engine failure but that didnt matter since it was a wet race that didnt really mean anything. MS and FA had both penaltys and after the first few laps they were both driving in top 5 if i remember correcly. When there is a wet race it dosent really matter where you start, alot of people have won from the back when there is a wet race. It matters more where you start when there is a dry race.

Of course it still matters, you lose time going through the pack. Don't compare it to MS and FA's penalties as they were there due to their own mistakes and not a failure within the team / car.

[Kay 0]

For me it was a fluke, if FA car didnt break he would have won. If kimi didnt have that unlucky accident he would have finished aheid of button. If Sh#tstones would have provided a better wet tyre maybe even MS could have won. A real race winner is when you beat a competator that has no problems during the race or beat a competator when you are in a inferior car thats a real win. When you win and more than half of the field have problems, that means that you really didnt beat anyone but got lucky since they had problems and you didnt.

He did have problems though, take out Button's engine problems and you'll be hard pushed to find a reason why he wouldn't win. Kimi? Well as far as I remember De La Rosa was catching him and right behind him when the accident happened and Button beat De La Rosa, so I guess it is a case of using logic to do the maths... Button would still have come out on top.

You seem to be mixing up problems with mistakes, MS and Kimi both made mistakes, that doesn't take away from the win Button had who made no mistakes.

Who are you and what have you done with Sato?

It is called brain washing and it works effectively!

[Jem of the Shire 0]

Were that to happen, Button, who is not a very good defensive driver, would have lost the lead.

now lets not start this again - I once asked for any hard evidence of this myth, and all everyone could come up with was imola 2005 when he slipped up and let MS through. JB's done plenty of defensive driving and not made errors

[Wez 0]

The simple truth is that if the Renault mechanics knew how to correctly put on a wheel nut Alonso WOULD HAVE won and Button wouldn't have a victory to his name yet.

For a "non-fluke" race, its also ironic that all 3 drivers on the podium happened to get their career best finishing positions in the same race... Fluke?

[Sato 0]

It is called brain washing and it works effectively!

Thats quite an outrageous claim

Like I said, I'm putting all the hype and fans out of my mind, and with that done I quite like Button. It's sort of how I was back in 2000 when I wanted him to do well to shut some drivers up.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

The simple truth is that if the Renault mechanics knew how to correctly put on a wheel nut Alonso WOULD HAVE won and Button wouldn't have a victory to his name yet.

For a "non-fluke" race, its also ironic that all 3 drivers on the podium happened to get their career best finishing positions in the same race... Fluke?

no cos JB fought his way to 2nd before all the major retirements.

the other 2 benefited more from the drop-outs, although they both also drove outstanding races, not making any mistakes, hence why they ended up 2nd and 3rd

[Sato 0]

Button may well of beaten Alonso had he stay on anyway.. its not 100% certain of course, since we it didn't happen, but I think theres a decent chance he would, he'd been catching him quite well before he had his problem.

[Player(1) 0]

now lets not start this again - I once asked for any hard evidence of this myth, and all everyone could come up with was imola 2005 when he slipped up and let MS through. JB's done plenty of defensive driving and not made errors

Mind giving examples of him defending so well against faster car's? Honestly I can't say i've even noticed Button in most races so cant even think of many times he's let others by....well he did tend to go backwards alot at the start of grand prix, bit like Trulli in he qualified well but dropped down in the race only the famed "Trulli train" proves him to be a better defender then Button.

[Wez 0]

Button may well of beaten Alonso had he stay on anyway.. its not 100% certain of course, since we it didn't happen, but I think theres a decent chance he would, he'd been catching him quite well before he had his problem.

Fair enough.... Button did do well to get to 2nd on Merit, but on the drying track Alonso would have (damn I sound like a Kimi fan) easily stayed in the lead towards the end.

Besides the stupid SC coming gout every 2 friggin laps made Button appear closer to Alonso than he really was on Pace.

But thats all using Kimi fan language.... The truth is Button won a good race in Hungary, Alonso won a great 2006 title and the rest they say is history!