An Inconvenient Truth

[UrKo 0]

Just wondering how many of u have seen this documentary?

I have to say it was 1 of the best documentary i have seen in a long time. Of course some parts of the film are doubtful but in general i do think that climate changes are visible around the world and it will get only worse.

[rumblestrip 0]

Saw it, liked it, but then again I'm part of the half of the population of my country that accepts that climate change is a problem. There's another half that thinks it's all a giant coincidence and that there's nothing wrong with the climate.

My wife and I are both very concerned about these things and we donate a fair share of money to environmental groups. In fact, one of the reasons I sold my last car was that I felt a bit like a hypocrite preaching about the environment while driving a monster V8 that sucked gas and spewed pollutants.

One of the problems here in the US is that there's a concerted effort to label environmentalists as crazy people. One of the more conservative people in my last office had a whole arsenal of insults prepared, and most of them were straight from the conservative radio show he'd listen to in the mornings. Any mention of global warming or any similar environmental concern would result in a barrage of these insults.

I do think that we're moving in the right direction though. Slowly people are starting take the environment seriously, and that's a good thing. IMO there's no "bad side" to having cleaner air. The way I look at it is, if we address global warming, and it ends up being phony, the result is cleaner air. So what? But, if we ignore it, and it turns out to be real, we're in serious, serious trouble. Not a hard choice to me. Plus, there are a lot of jobs that are going to be created in this field, and that's also a good thing.

Of course, for big businesses who pollute, it's cheaper to keep doing business as usual, so they want to make it seem like global warming is a non-issue. So they get their friends in congress to turn it into a left vs right issue, and suddenly half of the country is on their side by virtue of political affiliation only. It's a shame.

[Quiet One 15]

Saw it, liked it, but then again I'm part of the half of the population of my country that accepts that climate change is a problem. There's another half that thinks it's all a giant coincidence and that there's nothing wrong with the climate.

My wife and I are both very concerned about these things and we donate a fair share of money to environmental groups. In fact, one of the reasons I sold my last car was that I felt a bit like a hypocrite preaching about the environment while driving a monster V8 that sucked gas and spewed pollutants.

One of the problems here in the US is that there's a concerted effort to label environmentalists as crazy people. One of the more conservative people in my last office had a whole arsenal of insults prepared, and most of them were straight from the conservative radio show he'd listen to in the mornings. Any mention of global warming or any similar environmental concern would result in a barrage of these insults.

I do think that we're moving in the right direction though. Slowly people are starting take the environment seriously, and that's a good thing. IMO there's no "bad side" to having cleaner air. The way I look at it is, if we address global warming, and it ends up being phony, the result is cleaner air. So what? But, if we ignore it, and it turns out to be real, we're in serious, serious trouble. Not a hard choice to me. Plus, there are a lot of jobs that are going to be created in this field, and that's also a good thing.

Of course, for big businesses who pollute, it's cheaper to keep doing business as usual, so they want to make it seem like global warming is a non-issue. So they get their friends in congress to turn it into a left vs right issue, and suddenly half of the country is on their side by virtue of political affiliation only. It's a shame.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

I have'nt checked it out yet, but I want to. Plus Gore is an excellent speaker....

[AutoRacer5 0]

The movie was half right.

It's inconvenient, but it's not the truth.

IIRC, Mars has warming on it right now as well. How is that explained?

[ykickamoocow 0]

I find it amazing that some people continue to doubt that global warming is a serious problem which needs to be addressed soon. So far i know pumpdoc and AutoRacer5 have their heads buried in the sand but i seriously hope they dont speak for the majority of people because if they do then the human race is seriously screwed.

[UrKo 0]

Indeed! Global warming is a serious problem and every nation has felt it more or less. But until the big corporations are leading the world with its money policy, we really cant change much.

[rumblestrip 0]

I find it amazing that some people continue to doubt that global warming is a serious problem which needs to be addressed soon. So far i know pumpdoc and AutoRacer5 have their heads buried in the sand but i seriously hope they dont speak for the majority of people because if they do then the human race is seriously screwed.

What you have to realize is that big polluters are spending a huge amount of money to inject as much doubt as possible into the global warming issue. As long as there is doubt, there is inaction, and the longer that inaction lasts, the longer they can continue doing business as usual.

Big polluters fund their own scientists who produce whatever results they wish. They donate to politicians who share their position on the issue. They buy ad time on talk radio programs who tell their listeners, "There is no global warming", or, "There's global warming on Venus too, explain that!" or countless other trivial things that are designed for one purpose, to inject doubt.

The problem is that now even the big corporations are starting to admit that climate change is a problem. Shell oil is one that comes to mind, but there have been others. I think since more people are realizing there's a problem, they corps are trying to avoid a huge backlash. But there will be no backlash, because Americans don't really remember anything for more than a year. Not unless it involves Bill Clinton's zipper.

In a few years, we'll be hearing stories in the major media about how it was the conservatives who were trying to fix global warming all along, and how it was those evil liberals who were stopping them. And it'll all be swallowed as fact.

[Max Mosley 2]

Saw it, liked it, but then again I'm part of the half of the population of my country that accepts that climate change is a problem. There's another half that thinks it's all a giant coincidence and that there's nothing wrong with the climate.

My wife and I are both very concerned about these things and we donate a fair share of money to environmental groups. In fact, one of the reasons I sold my last car was that I felt a bit like a hypocrite preaching about the environment while driving a monster V8 that sucked gas and spewed pollutants.

One of the problems here in the US is that there's a concerted effort to label environmentalists as crazy people. One of the more conservative people in my last office had a whole arsenal of insults prepared, and most of them were straight from the conservative radio show he'd listen to in the mornings. Any mention of global warming or any similar environmental concern would result in a barrage of these insults.

The problem is that now even the big corporations are starting to admit that climate change is a problem. Shell oil is one that comes to mind, but there have been others. I think since more people are realizing there's a problem, they corps are trying to avoid a huge backlash. But there will be no backlash, because Americans don't really remember anything for more than a year. Not unless it involves Bill Clinton's zipper.

In a few years, we'll be hearing stories in the major media about how it was the conservatives who were trying to fix global warming all along, and how it was those evil liberals who were stopping them. And it'll all be swallowed as fact.

Superb posts Rumblestip. I suspect you're right about climate change. Also I often find it both frightening and slightly amusing how things are debated in the US. There does seem to be a lot of simplistic name-calling masquerading as reasoned argument. People who would be middle-of-the-road politicians in Germany or France get called commie b#####ds ( ), atheists are demonised, environmentalists are vilified, those who question the "war on terror" in any way are called "unpatriotic" (apparently a big insult over there? ) etc. Having said that there are probably just as many problems, but different ones, with the UK electorate and politicians. The latter are surely just as conniving as yours.

[james 0]

I've seen many different studies done about this. It's not disputed that the climate is going through a warming trend. Whats disputed is whether or not humans are the cause. The most convincing data i've seen so far shows that the sun is causing the majority of the warming and the co2 we are pumping into the atmosphere is a very small percentage. I posted the pdf file under the omg its snowing thread (I believe). I have watched most of Gores movie. It just didn't seem very convincing to me. I could be wrong, but then again you could be wrong as well.

[rumblestrip 0]

I could be wrong, but then again you could be wrong as well.

Absolutely, either of us could be wrong. The difference is, if I'm wrong, we have cleaner air. If you're wrong, we're dead.

If there's a suspicious package on the subway, and you think it might be a bomb, you treat it like one until you find out for sure otherwise. If you treat it with care and it's not a bomb, you're still fine. If you kick it and it is a bomb, you and everyone else on the subway is dead.

The suspicious thing about all the science surrounding climate change is that it seems to be drawn right down political lines, which makes me thing something is up with it. So I look at who has something to gain on either side, and it just seems to me that the big corporations are the ones with the most at stake.

If a porn magazine publisher was voted president, and suddenly all the pornography laws were lifted, people would notice a connection. I don't know why they don't notice it with this.

Maybe I'm being overly simplistic, but I just don't want to take the chance and be wrong on this one. The potential for disaster is too great.

[Big Dawg 0]

Have you guys seen the South Park episode with Al gore....its hilarious, and also the one episode about global warming ( mocking the movie the day after tommorow.. and depicting Hurricane Katrina events)....funny as hell.

[AutoRacer5 0]

I find it amazing that some people continue to doubt that global warming is a serious problem which needs to be addressed soon. So far i know pumpdoc and AutoRacer5 have their heads buried in the sand but i seriously hope they dont speak for the majority of people because if they do then the human race is seriously screwed.

There was a warming trend in the 1200s to the 1400s, and we weren't driving cars then.

Your explanation?

And how did the earth get out of its ice ages? The earth can change itself. Sure, we can not pollute as much, but look at my article about the Toyota Prius in the other thread.

[james 0]

Absolutely, either of us could be wrong. The difference is, if I'm wrong, we have cleaner air. If you're wrong, we're dead.

If there's a suspicious package on the subway, and you think it might be a bomb, you treat it like one until you find out for sure otherwise. If you treat it with care and it's not a bomb, you're still fine. If you kick it and it is a bomb, you and everyone else on the subway is dead.

The suspicious thing about all the science surrounding climate change is that it seems to be drawn right down political lines, which makes me thing something is up with it. So I look at who has something to gain on either side, and it just seems to me that the big corporations are the ones with the most at stake.

If a porn magazine publisher was voted president, and suddenly all the pornography laws were lifted, people would notice a connection. I don't know why they don't notice it with this.

Maybe I'm being overly simplistic, but I just don't want to take the chance and be wrong on this one. The potential for disaster is too great.

Ok, to stop the carbon emissions we have to basically stop doing everything we currently do. There is just about nothing we do that doesn't require gasoline or electricity. Farming output will be dramatically reduced so we will have a food shortage, people will be sitting around bored and starving with no clean water so we'll be screwing each other and reproducing at a record rate, also spreading disease thats killing millions of people because the medical system will be nonexistant. And if we don't immediately cut off emissions the world is going to continue to get warmer and warmer until the all the crap that the global warming advocates have predicted happens. Then we are screwed all over again.

I have used what little common sense I have to wade through all the bullsh!t and make a decision on the subject. From the information I have seen, there is nothing rock solid to prove CO2 is the main cause.

The political orientation of people on either side of the arguement probably has a lot to do with their view on the issue. Ask yourself, which side has done more to force their morals upon others?

http://rapidshare.com/files/25517012/DCMeetingNov16.pdf Here is the link I mentioned earlier. It was dead so I reuploaded it. Its only 5Mb so its not that big. I will gladly look at any links you have if you think they will aid in changing my mind.

[goferrarigo 0]

I did not like the movie to be honest.... I mean i agree with it (we should drive fuel efficent cars, renewable energies, etc) but i felt the movie was hididng a few facts...

[rumblestrip 0]

Ok, to stop the carbon emissions we have to basically stop doing everything we currently do. There is just about nothing we do that doesn't require gasoline or electricity. Farming output will be dramatically reduced so we will have a food shortage, people will be sitting around bored and starving with no clean water so we'll be screwing each other and reproducing at a record rate, also spreading disease thats killing millions of people because the medical system will be nonexistant. And if we don't immediately cut off emissions the world is going to continue to get warmer and warmer until the all the crap that the global warming advocates have predicted happens. Then we are screwed all over again.

We aren't going to cut CO2 overnight, but small changes here and there do accumulate. I remember back when they said there was nothing we could do about the hole in the ozone layer, and now it's not only stopped growing, but it's shrinking.

Small changes here and there add up.

Ask yourself, which side has done more to force their morals upon others?

Absolutely no contest, especially when you consider the attempts to integrate religion into the government. But conservatives and progressives have differing views of what they consider "big government" and the imposition of morals. For someone who leans to the right, having to pay taxes, and the regulation of big business is the definition of big government. For someone who leans to the left, social regulation, the curtailing of free speech, and government control over personal issues (reproductive rights to name one) is the definition of big government.

From my point of view, conservatives try to impose their morals upon me more than progressives do onto them, by an order of magnitude.

http://rapidshare.com/files/25517012/DCMeetingNov16.pdf Here is the link I mentioned earlier. It was dead so I reuploaded it. Its only 5Mb so its not that big. I will gladly look at any links you have if you think they will aid in changing my mind.

At the risk of sounding like a cop-out, I'm not interested in changing your mind. It's not why I'm here. I've been an admin on a political forum, since 1999, and I've had enough political debate to last me three lifetimes. It's just not something I want to get into here. I'll state my opinion on the issue, and I'll respect your position. But in 8 years I have yet to see a single person change their opinion over something they read on an Internet forum.

But it is nice to be able to state my opinion without being shouted down, and if this were a US-based car forum, that's exactly what would happen.

[AutoRacer5 0]

When we exhale, we exhale CO2.

Al Gore, should we all just stop breathing?

[rumblestrip 0]

When we exhale, we exhale CO2.

Al Gore, should we all just stop breathing?

And there's oil in the ground already, so I guess I should just dump my old used motor oil down the storm drain, eh.

Hyper-simplified examples like that just make people think you don't understand the issue.

[AutoRacer5 0]

I understand it, but it was an exaggeration.

[rumblestrip 0]

I understand it, but it was an exaggeration.

I know, and that was the problem with it. Just because there is already some element in the air does not mean that an unlimited amount of it is acceptable.

The thing is we don't, and likely won't ever know for sure whether human activity is causing the problem. The only thing we can really do is try to limit our impact and see if it helps things. I don't think it's responsible to just assume we aren't the cause, or couldn't have an effect, and take our chances.

[Jez 0]

Has anyone made a pledge at myearthdream.com? Honda will put your name on their car. Who knows when tho, I think they might have other car issues on there mind at the moment!

[rumblestrip 0]

Has anyone made a pledge at myearthdream.com? Honda will put your name on their car.

Cool... our names can circulate at the back of the field and we'll see them every time a Honda gets lapped.

[dribbler 6]

Saw it, liked it, but then again I'm part of the half of the population of my country that accepts that climate change is a problem. There's another half that thinks it's all a giant coincidence and that there's nothing wrong with the climate.

My wife and I are both very concerned about these things and we donate a fair share of money to environmental groups. In fact, one of the reasons I sold my last car was that I felt a bit like a hypocrite preaching about the environment while driving a monster V8 that sucked gas and spewed pollutants.

One of the problems here in the US is that there's a concerted effort to label environmentalists as crazy people. One of the more conservative people in my last office had a whole arsenal of insults prepared, and most of them were straight from the conservative radio show he'd listen to in the mornings. Any mention of global warming or any similar environmental concern would result in a barrage of these insults.

I do think that we're moving in the right direction though. Slowly people are starting take the environment seriously, and that's a good thing. IMO there's no "bad side" to having cleaner air. The way I look at it is, if we address global warming, and it ends up being phony, the result is cleaner air. So what? But, if we ignore it, and it turns out to be real, we're in serious, serious trouble. Not a hard choice to me. Plus, there are a lot of jobs that are going to be created in this field, and that's also a good thing.

Of course, for big businesses who pollute, it's cheaper to keep doing business as usual, so they want to make it seem like global warming is a non-issue. So they get their friends in congress to turn it into a left vs right issue, and suddenly half of the country is on their side by virtue of political affiliation only. It's a shame.

Belated respect sir.