Driver Of The Day - Barcelona

[Fed up 0]

What I cannot understand is why is it so strange to pick Nando as DOD. I agree is not the obvious choice, but it's not as if I chose DC!

I compare NP with FA because they are the only ones driving a Renault. Last year comparison was with Lewis. There's nothing I can do. That being said, I obviously don't expect NP to deliver the way Nando does, regardless of his skills (which so far, seem worryingly unexistant), but is the only way to get an idea of the possible performance of the Renault.

He completed 35 laps of a 66 lap race (just over half distance) yet you vote him as driver of the day - where is the logic in that Andres

[Quiet One 15]

He completed 35 laps of a 66 lap race (just over half distance) yet you vote him as driver of the day - where is the logic in that Andres

I voted driver, not engine of the day

[Fed up 0]

The truth is that most of Nando's fans are fair weather fans and effectively switched off once he retired. For the rest of us there was another 31 laps of racing to watch and make our evaluation of DOD - This DOD poll is symptomatic of the state of F1 - it's more personality than performance.

Points are awarded at the end of the race not after the first round of pitstops. Jenson's performance seems to have been overlooked in all of this, but is worthy of a mention.

[maure 1]

For this once, I agree with your sarcasm.

I settle for a smile... agreement is not in the cards.

[maure 1]

Kimi.

Fastest through free practices and most consistent in terms of lap times. Pole. Wins the race. Fastest lap. 10 more points in the bag.

No one stood a chance.

That's kimi.

Learn, people, learn.

[maure 1]

It's also quite obvious that they pushed up the revs so high as to give him pole and it cost them an engine failure... which means it was rather ridiculous going that lenghs to PLEASE THE FANS..... just my take on it...

sure the element of suprise was there Quiet One, we all knew how it was gonna end (sortoff)

don't you agree

My first thought too but it seems that wasn't so... or at least so they claim at Reanult... who is to say... we'll see in two weeks what's what.

Interestingly, when the two-race rule for engines was put in place, I figured it would be an excellent opportunity for mid-field teams, meaning that, say, Honda or Toyota or TR, could put together an engine for a single race and drive the bolts off it. Screw the penalty for the following race if they could get to put a shiner on the top teams at least once...

[Elizabeth Sterling 0]

Alonso had only 2 laps less fuel than Massa but still he was P2 on saturday. Ferrari is much better starter than Renault-BMW-McLaren together. Besides, Massa started on the clean side of the track and Alonso didn't have a new set of softers left for the start.

Yeah but you're still ignoring the fact he nearly crashed on the warm-up lap at his home race, and the fact that despite being... was it three or four laps lighter than Kimi? Despite that advantage he still got beaten to pole position by a tenth. The Ferrari may be fast but with a 12+ kilo ballast onboard with a car that we know isn't good at doing hot laps against the R28 which we've seen consistantly be better in qually than in the race? And, as you've mentioned, to achieve his qualifying performance he had to sacrifice more soft tyres than the others. Don't get me wrong, 'nando did a good job but he was not driver of the day. He even featured 9th on the fastest lap table a full second off of Kimi who wasn't even trying that hard.

Also, the weight advantage is a big bonus off of the start and let's not forget that Felipe Massa isn't exactly the master of throttle control. By rights he should have been 2nd or 1st in to turn one and it's his mistake that prevented that. ALso, it does appear more and more that Renault thrashed that engine for a one-off shot at glory, though we'll see on that point.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

My first thought too but it seems that wasn't so... or at least so they claim at Reanult... who is to say... we'll see in two weeks what's what.

Interestingly, when the two-race rule for engines was put in place, I figured it would be an excellent opportunity for mid-field teams, meaning that, say, Honda or Toyota or TR, could put together an engine for a single race and drive the bolts off it. Screw the penalty for the following race if they could get to put a shiner on the top teams at least once...

Thats what they claim Maure, I've also read the articles on TF1... We'll be able to gauge more carefully next race, but i've got a feeling we're right on the money... they gambled, and lost...badly

[Quiet One 15]

[quote name='Fed up' post='250095' date='Apr 29 2008, 10:59 AM']The truth is that most of Nando's fans are fair weather fans and effectively switched off once he retired.[/quote]
False as far as it concerns me. False, probably, as far as most other Nando fans are concerned. How did you arrive to such conclussion?

[quote name='Fed up' post='250095' date='Apr 29 2008, 10:59 AM']For the rest of us there was another 31 laps of racing to watch and make our evaluation of DOD - This DOD poll is symptomatic of the state of F1 - it's more personality than performance.

Points are awarded at the end of the race not after the first round of pitstops. Jenson's performance seems to have been overlooked in all of this, but is worthy of a mention.[/quote]
There is not a single procedure to choose a DOD, I keep saying this post after post, but nobody seems to notice. I still challenge everybody here to tell me why my reasons are not worth of consideration.

[Fed up 0]

False as far as it concerns me. False, probably, as far as most other Nando fans are concerned. How did you arrive to such conclussion?

There is not a single procedure to choose a DOD, I keep saying this post after post, but nobody seems to notice. I still challenge everybody here to tell me why my reasons are not worth of consideration.

http://forums.autosport.com/showthread.php?threadid=100955

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/A35260445

[freaky2 1]

False as far as it concerns me. False, probably, as far as most other Nando fans are concerned. How did you arrive to such conclussion?

There is not a single procedure to choose a DOD, I keep saying this post after post, but nobody seems to notice. I still challenge everybody here to tell me why my reasons are not worth of consideration.

Not meaning you at all, but the TV comentators did say that by the end of the race many people had already left their stands in Montmelo, and they even paid for that... seemed pathetic to me -.- (Yes, I wish I could have been there even for a boring race T_T)

And by the way, you also convinced me with your argument of not choosing DC

And we have to forgive you for the one and only time you'll be voting Fernando, right?

[BradSpeedMan 6]

I agree I was going to talk about it but for some reason I forgot it.

this is really bad quality, but anyway...for your enjoyment

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=r6bkQ7FCPGQ

[Max Mosley 2]

a Ferrari overtaking a Renault at the start is only possible if the Renault has previously gone briefly off track during the warm up lap...

I don't think anyone said that. But going off track on the final corner of the warm up lap doesn't help, and might well have been a vital difference. Also I think there was both a grain of truth and a dash of exaggeration to the other comments you parodied.

It's also quite obvious that they pushed up the revs so high as to give him pole and it cost them an engine failure... which means it was rather ridiculous going that lenghs to PLEASE THE FANS..... just my take on it...

My first thought too but it seems that wasn't so... or at least so they claim at Reanult... who is to say... we'll see in two weeks what's what.

Seems quite plausible that they would. Strangely this didn't occur to me. Perhaps I was too busy hoping that Nando had made another mistake...

Interestingly, when the two-race rule for engines was put in place, I figured it would be an excellent opportunity for mid-field teams, meaning that, say, Honda or Toyota or TR, could put together an engine for a single race and drive the bolts off it. Screw the penalty for the following race if they could get to put a shiner on the top teams at least once...

Good point. I wonder why this doesn't happen.

Yeah but you're still ignoring the fact he nearly crashed on the warm-up lap at his home race, and the fact that despite being... was it three or four laps lighter than Kimi? Despite that advantage he still got beaten to pole position by a tenth. The Ferrari may be fast but with a 12+ kilo ballast onboard with a car that we know isn't good at doing hot laps against the R28 which we've seen consistantly be better in qually than in the race? And, as you've mentioned, to achieve his qualifying performance he had to sacrifice more soft tyres than the others. Don't get me wrong, 'nando did a good job but he was not driver of the day. He even featured 9th on the fastest lap table a full second off of Kimi who wasn't even trying that hard.

Also, the weight advantage is a big bonus off of the start and let's not forget that Felipe Massa isn't exactly the master of throttle control. By rights he should have been 2nd or 1st in to turn one and it's his mistake that prevented that. ALso, it does appear more and more that Renault thrashed that engine for a one-off shot at glory, though we'll see on that point.

Excellent post. I would mainly add that the times in quali were very close: an extra 0.2s would have put him 6th and 0.5s longer would have put him level with the Red Bull-Renault of Webber. So having 4 laps less fuel than Webber and 5 less than the McLarens and lightest BMW surely accounts for a lot of his impressive pace in qualifying.

How did you arrive to such conclussion?

No doubt by a more politically correct method than me!

[Schumikonen 2]

Excellent post. I would mainly add that the times in quali were very close: an extra 0.2s would have put him 6th and 0.5s longer would have put him level with the Red Bull-Renault of Webber. So having 4 laps less fuel than Webber and 5 less than the McLarens and lightest BMW surely accounts for a lot of his impressive pace in qualifying.

You are a genius but even with this wonderful explanation they won't see

[Quiet One 15]

http://forums.autosport.com/showthread.php?threadid=100955

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/A35260445

Am I missing something here?

So, the guy had an awful weekend. So, the Spanish fans around him were racist pricks and they worship Satan between races while looking for young, tender British flesh to eat along with their paellas.

I'll grant you all that, and more, if that makes you happy.

But what the heck does it have to do with Nando's performance????? or Spanish switching off their tv's after the engine failure??????? Which, as a matter of fact, is something totally irrelevant anyways as none of them voted here for DOD!!!!

Geez!

@Freaky: actually, you are right, I haven't voted many times for Nando (and I think I haven't voted for him at all since the season started)

[Schumikonen 2]

But the simple question is how can a driver who didn't finish the race be the DOD? we can not prejudge a driver who didn't finish the race, remember Massa in OZ, he was storming from the back of the field he had a mazing race...until he started making mistakes, was he DOD for the good part of that race? No, how can you tell me that FA was going to finish the race in a good position when he got out of the track in the warm up lap? he could do anything stupid like that again, so IMO is just senseless to vote for him but it would be even worse to vote for DC.

[Max Mosley 2]

You are a genius but even with this wonderful explanation they won't see

An excellent, insightful post as always Schumikonen!

I found someone has adjusted the Q3 times for fuel loads. According to Dave Baker of Puma Race Engines, if you correct for different fuel loads (and nothing else) this is where everyone "really" qualified.

1 Kimi .......1.21.893

2 Kubica...1.22.065

3 Lewis......1.22.096

4 Heikki.....1.22.141

5 Massa ....1.22.238

6 Heidfeld ..1.22.272

7 Alonso.....1.22.354

8 Webber....1.22.519

9 Trulli........1.22.619

His method is explained here, and is pretty interesting. Basically he calculates how much lap-time you lose per extra lap's worth of fuel carried, then estimates the Q3 times that would have been achieved had everyone been on the same strategy of pitting on lap 21. (His explanation is spread over several different posts, but he does explain how he estimates the time lost per kg of extra fuel carried. It equates to about 0.085s/lap for each extra lap of fuel.) Seems a reasonable calculation to me, and tallies with other ones I found for different circuits.

[Max Mosley 2]

Am I missing something here?

Obviously it doesn't have much to do with the topic of the thread, but I think Fed Up was just defending his claim that most Alonso fans are fair weather ones.

[Schumikonen 2]

An excellent, insightful post as always Schumikonen!

I found someone has adjusted the Q3 times for fuel loads. According to Dave Baker of Puma Race Engines, if you correct for different fuel loads (and nothing else) this is where everyone "really" qualified.

1 Kimi .......1.21.893

2 Kubica...1.22.065

3 Lewis......1.22.096

4 Heikki.....1.22.141

5 Massa ....1.22.238

6 Heidfeld ..1.22.272

7 Alonso.....1.22.354

8 Webber....1.22.519

9 Trulli........1.22.619

His method is explained here, and is pretty interesting. Basically he calculates how much lap-time you lose per extra lap's worth of fuel carried, then estimates the Q3 times that would have been achieved had everyone been on the same strategy of pitting on lap 21. (His explanation is spread over several different posts, but he does explain how he estimates the time lost per kg of extra fuel carried. It equates to about 0.085s/lap for each extra lap of fuel.) Seems a reasonable calculation to me, and tallies with other ones I found for different circuits.

If you keep posting like this they won't see but hey will stop posting soon.

[Rainmaster 7]

I myself don't see any real issue with voting Alonso as DOD, I also don't really see how it matters in the slightest who picks who...there are no points awarded for it!

Kimi won and was flawless, Button was excellent, Webber was solid and reliable and I could go on to mention a few other drivers, I can't remember who else drove well though - because nobody drove spectacularly (mostly due to the nature of the track imo).

Interestingly the ITV commentators mentioned how Alonso and our dear Hammy were standing by each other and chatting during the drivers parade, it seems they've put their differences well behind them (to an extent at least) - shame some of the fans can't do the same, eh?

[Quiet One 15]

I myself don't see any real issue with voting Alonso as DOD, I also don't really see how it matters in the slightest who picks who...there are no points awarded for it!

Kimi won and was flawless, Button was excellent, Webber was solid and reliable and I could go on to mention a few other drivers, I can't remember who else drove well though - because nobody drove spectacularly (mostly due to the nature of the track imo).

Interestingly the ITV commentators mentioned how Alonso and our dear Hammy were standing by each other and chatting during the drivers parade, it seems they've put their differences well behind them (to an extent at least) - shame some of the fans can't do the same, eh?

Thank you!!! Finally some common sense!

[Schumikonen 2]

I myself don't see any real issue with voting Alonso as DOD, I also don't really see how it matters in the slightest who picks who...there are no points awarded for it!

Kimi won and was flawless, Button was excellent, Webber was solid and reliable and I could go on to mention a few other drivers, I can't remember who else drove well though - because nobody drove spectacularly (mostly due to the nature of the track imo).

Interestingly the ITV commentators mentioned how Alonso and our dear Hammy were standing by each other and chatting during the drivers parade, it seems they've put their differences well behind them (to an extent at least) - shame some of the fans can't do the same, eh?

I told you

[Schumikonen 2]

Thank you!!! Finally some common sense!

You call common sense voting for a driver who didn't finish the race?

So it makes sense to vote for Vetel, he drove an excellent race until he was hit by someone else, that wasn't his fault, yes that makes perfect sense

[Rainmaster 7]

No, I think I made myself clear. We all know this was you.

..forgot to reply to this earlier due to the DOD debate...

[Quiet One 15]

You call common sense voting for a driver who didn't finish the race?

So it makes sense to vote for Vetel, he drove an excellent race until he was hit by someone else, that wasn't his fault, yes that makes perfect sense

You keep misinterpreting me and misinterpreting George. So, yes, you could easily vote for Vettel.