108 replies to this topic

[Jez]

I thought I might start this thread for those of us interested in space exploration.

To kick it off, here is an article about Europe's meeting to set space goals for the next bunch of years-

Attaching Columbus to the space station was a key moment for Europe


How to spend at least 9bn euros is the question facing European science ministers gathering in The Hague.

The 18 member states of the European Space Agency (Esa) are meeting in the Dutch city to approve policies and programmes for the next three years.

They will sanction funding for ongoing activities, such as Esa's involvement in the space station; but they will also initiate a range of new projects.

These cover new space technologies and Earth-monitoring satellites.

The agenda of the Council Meeting at Ministerial Level was drawn up in advance of the talks. Science ministers will approve Esa's plans and place budget limits on the major programme areas.

The membership rules of the Esa "club" stipulate that nations must pick up a large chunk of the annual 3bn-euro budget according to their economic weight. This money covers the main science activities of the agency.

Esa's director general, Jean-Jacques Dordain, wants the subscriptions going into this area to grow by 3.6% per year, giving him 2.3bn euros two play with over the period 2009-2013.

He rejects the notion that global financial difficulties should mean less investment in space.

"This is the right moment to take the decisions to make the future more secure and more beautiful than the present," Mr Dordain said.

"In space, you are investing for the next five or 10 years, meaning that space cannot be dependent on economic cycles which are disturbing the situation of today but which will not disturb the future."

In addition to the mandatory programmes of Esa, there is also an "a la carte" menu of space programmes on offer at the meeting; and member states can choose the level at which they enrol in these projects.

The excitement of the ministerial meeting is always to see which nations are drawn to which optional programmes, and how much they are prepared to invest.

Germany and France, for example, are the biggest backers of the most expensive voluntary programmes - the ones that cover the space station and Europe's Ariane rocket project. Together these two areas account for about a third of Esa's budget.

The UK, on the other hand, will not invest these ventures. In The Hague, its attention will be focused on other items that it considers better fit with its expertise and ambitions. This would include the ExoMars robot rover that Esa hopes to send to the Red Planet in 2016.

Britain has put its financial muscle behind the mission but in the three years since ministers initiated the project, it has grown in scope and cost. The Hague meeting must sign off this "enhanced ExoMars", and that means the UK having to renegotiate its position.

"This is a very important and exciting project in terms of going to Mars and exploiting the area where the UK has real world-class expertise, in robotics," said Britain's science minister, Lord Drayson.

"Although [ExoMars] has been delayed, we are very excited about the potential of this project," he told BBC News.

The cost of the mission has been capped at a billion euros but is currently short of the 360m euros needed to make it happen. Italy, which provided most of the initial funding in 2005 to lead the project, has recently indicated it will pick up some of the spill-over.

Britain, which has number two status on ExoMars, would be expected to pay a portion of the extra bill, also.

Esa is as much about industry as it is science; and under agency rules, there is a direct relationship between the amount of money a nation puts into agency programmes and the value of the industrial contracts it gets back. The bigger the investment, the bigger the industrial return.

It is understood that Germany will be coming to the meeting with major investment planned on a number of projects, including one to build the next generation of Europe's weather satellites, known as MTG (Meteosat Third Generation). If it does that, Germany will guarantee substantial work for its space companies.

                                                                                                                  

I'm quite interested to see where space exploration will take us in my lifetime and beyond. I wish we'd hurry up and put humans on Mars already!

[Max Mosley]

Jez, I thought you were too cool to be a nerd.  You slipped up big time starting this thread.

The space race in the '50s and '60s inspired my Dad when he was in school and I can see why.  In the absence of real space exploration, I was excited about Star Trek, and I think so are many scientists today.  Bush's plan to go to Mars might recreate some of the drama of the original space race but it's also very expensive and I do wonder if we could use the money elsewhere, even in science.  The other big thing that will happen soon is cheap space flights becoming available for the public to go into space.  That and the exploitation of space by private companies and the military.  I also find the vastness of space slightly depressing - someone hurry up and make a warp drive!

[Jez]

Yes I agree in part that the money spent on space exploration could be better used elsewhere. But regardless, its in our nature as a species to explore. It's what has made us what we are today, for better or for worse

And I suspect that those nations who step up to the plate financially to further space science will in turn be the ones to benefit the most financially in a future where space travel is the norm. Sounds nerdy huh?

[Max Mosley]

Yeah the mission to Mars will definitely be exciting.  It reminds me a little of F1: you've got innovation, very talented pilots, money, political intrigue etc.  They're missing the token women in short skirts though.

[Jez]

Murray Walker, on Nov 25 2008, 10:07 PM, said:

Yeah the mission to Mars will definitely be exciting. It reminds me a little of F1: you've got innovation, very talented pilots, money, political intrigue etc. They're missing the token women in short skirts though.

That might boost funding!

Yep after I read the Mars trilogy by Kim Stanley Robinson, I've been quite interested in the idea of man setting down on the red planet. Bring on the next frontier I say!

I've read here and there in various articles that we are more ready to go to Mars now, than we were to go to the moon in 1969. It's a shame that weaponry is higher on the shopping list for many nations...

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer]

Murray Walker, on Nov 25 2008, 10:12 AM, said:

Bush's plan to go to Mars might recreate some of the drama of the original space race but it's also very expensive and I do wonder if we could use the money elsewhere, even in science.

Yes but bear in mind all of the innovations that came out of the moon race - transistors, etc.... What would a similar programme to Mars yield?

[mikathegreat2]

When I was 10 I was interested in space, now I'm into more interesting things such as cars, games consloes, Sheryl Cole etc..

[dribbler]

Yes, that's quite right. The infinitely mind blowing concept of space and all that it holds is far outweighed by the beauty and astounding talent of Cheryl Cole.

[Jez]

Oh well, I tried   

[Max Mosley]

Well you got your wish in any case, Jez.  Esa (the european space agency, for anyone too cool to already know) got a whopping 10billion euro budget over the next 3-5 years: more than even its boss expected.  The politicians see it as a way to invest in europe's hi-tech future and spend our way out of recession.  It also fits in with the green agenda a little because some of the schemes are all about monitoring earth's climate.

http://news.bbc.co.u...ech/7749761.stm

[Kati]

i cant believe they waste this much to put 4-5 guys there drinking their own 'recycled' pee.

[medilloni]

Murray Walker, on Nov 27 2008, 02:45 PM, said:

Well you got your wish in any case, Jez.  Esa (the european space agency, for anyone too cool to already know) got a whopping 10billion euro budget over the next 3-5 years: more than even its boss expected.  The politicians see it as a way to invest in europe's hi-tech future and spend our way out of recession.  It also fits in with the green agenda a little because some of the schemes are all about monitoring earth's climate.

http://news.bbc.co.u...ech/7749761.stm

Might have known they'd need to buy some accurate thermometers Murray.  But can they then teach the scientists not to stick them up a cows arse so we get some accurate readings this time?         



Good thread Jez, sorry it's not stirred people's juices yet - personaly I'm fascinated by the subject, 'specially stuff like this: http://news.bbc.co.u...ech/7706844.stm  Looks like a really simple answer to a potentially tough problem (at a glance!).

[Jez]

Thanks Med thats an interesting development.  Radiation exposure is a serious problem I've not considered overly for future space fairers.

Here's another cool article. An idea that will make space more accessible to countries/corporations who want to avoid the huge expense of using rocket boosters to leave the planet- Race to build the worlds first space elevator

Edited by Jez, 28 November 2008 - 12:00 AM.

[Jez]

[Jez]

Katy H., on Nov 28 2008, 02:07 AM, said:

i cant believe they waste this much to put 4-5 guys there drinking their own 'recycled' pee.

I know you're upset because Nick is getting married, so I'll pretend you didn't say that.

[medilloni]

Jez, on Nov 27 2008, 11:59 PM, said:

Thanks Med thats an interesting development.  Radiation exposure is a serious problem I've not considered overly for future space fairers.

Here's another cool article. An idea that will make space more accessible to countries/corporations who want to avoid the huge expense of using rocket boosters to leave the planet- Race to build the worlds first space elevator

Makes a load of sense, but the technology to build it would be awesome.  As a feed to a space station/docking station it looks like a logical, simple solution.

I wonder who would be the first mad git to jump off the top  

Quote

I know you're upset because Nick is getting married, so I'll pretend you didn't say that.

  Wonder if he's been seduced by Mrs (ex) Ecclestone?

[freaky2]

medilloni, on Nov 28 2008, 11:16 AM, said:

  Wonder if he's been seduced by Mrs (ex) Ecclestone?

To be one of her 2 midgets?
Not a pleasant image XD

[Schumikonen]

Jez, on Nov 25 2008, 06:50 AM, said:

Yes I agree in part that the money spent on space exploration could be better used elsewhere. But regardless, its in our nature as a species to explore. It's what has made us what we are today, for better or for worse

And I suspect that those nations who step up to the plate financially to further space science will in turn be the ones to benefit the most financially in a future where space travel is the norm. Sounds nerdy huh?

I rather see that money in the space exploration than in politicians' hands and being misused for personal interest and like we are seeing here in USA with thoses "bailout" this leaders are only helping the rich people (which in a way makes sense, I mean rich people create jobs for poor people) but I know the goverment was not suppose to help thoses companis in trouble because they are in that situation because of the bad business they got themselves into, we are talking about trillions here just to save thoses people/company who were not responsible enough to make good decisions now we are all in trouble, so as I said I rather see that money invested in the space explorations, how knows maybe one day I can go to the moon.

and I think this thread is a good idea eventhought I don't have much to contribute to it but if some of you do, I know I will learn a lot.

[Kati]

Jez, on Nov 28 2008, 02:21 AM, said:

I know you're upset because Nick is getting married, so I'll pretend you didn't say that.

I almost opened a thread on it! awwwww he proposed on Eiffel Tower, isn't it cute? (Kati deep inside thinks he did it cus Seb showed Nick letter she gave him, saying he stole her from Nick and was now her fave driver)  

[Max Mosley]

  Well, when you tell Seb he's only your second favourite guy in the world, maybe he'll accept Nick's proposal.

[Kati]

no murray, you're not my fave, you know that, right?

[Max Mosley]

Oh, just because I'm not your boyfriend?  This is so unfair.

EDIT: translated from msn-spelling.

Edited by Murray Walker, 29 November 2008 - 03:03 PM.

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer]

Katy H., on Nov 29 2008, 01:23 PM, said:

no murray, you're not my fave, you know that, right?

No that's me
(wishful thinking!)

Anyway some space related jokes:

Q. How many ears does Spock have?
A. 3 - his left ear, his right ear and his final front-ear

Q. Why did Spock stick his head down the toilet?
A. so he could see the Captain's Log...

[Max Mosley]

Very funny.

[medilloni]

Meanioni, on Nov 29 2008, 04:06 PM, said:

No that's me
(wishful thinking!)

Anyway some space related jokes:

Q. How many ears does Spock have?
A. 3 - his left ear, his right ear and his final front-ear

Q. Why did Spock stick his head down the toilet?
A. so he could see the Captain's Log...

And thanks for that Meani Wan, I get it now, I used to wonder who the hell Captain Slog was...

[Jez]

Something for the Aussies members to look out for tonight-

A smile that will light up the night sky
December 1, 2008 - 10:55AM


THE world may be facing its worst economic turmoil in decades, but the heavens are about to smile on Australia.A rare cosmic alignment tonight will produce a smiling face - or an emoticon, depending on your generation - high over the country.

From soon after 8pm until just before 11pm the planets Venus and Jupiter will stare down from the western sky like two brilliant eyes. Directly below, the crescent moon will form a happy mouth.

"I think it will be very spectacular," Sydney Observatory's astronomer, Nick Lomb, said. "The three brightest objects in the night sky will all be in the same patch of the sky."

As the night draws on, Dr Lomb predicted, "the smiley face" - with Venus playing the left eye and giant Jupiter the right - "will improve and become a little more compact".

To the superstitious, unusual astronomical apparitions were often seen as omens. While Dr Lomb said he did not believe in such things, he noted that Monday's smiling face will appear on the eve of the next Reserve Bank's meeting at which it will consider interest rates.

"There was an upside-down sad face visible on the morning of April 23, 1998," he recalled. That day's Herald was dominated by news of conflict on Australia's waterfront, protests against child-care costs, big rises in bank fees and executions in Rwanda.

Dr Lomb urged people to attempt to photograph tonight's heavenly show, which will not smile on the US or Europe.

"It should be very easy to take a photograph with a digital camera and a tripod. Use a one-, two- or three-second exposure and, of course, no flash."

However the cosmic cheeriness will be a fleeting affair. Another smiley face will not grin over Australia until the early hours of July 21, 2036.

Sydney Observatory will stay open for tonight's show, allowing people to stare back through telescopes and glimpse Jupiter's moons, Venus's gibbous shape and lunar craters.

[freaky2]

Jez, on Dec 1 2008, 03:36 AM, said:

Something for the Aussies members to look out for tonight-

A smile that will light up the night sky
December 1, 2008 - 10:55AM


THE world may be facing its worst economic turmoil in decades, but the heavens are about to smile on Australia.A rare cosmic alignment tonight will produce a smiling face - or an emoticon, depending on your generation - high over the country.

From soon after 8pm until just before 11pm the planets Venus and Jupiter will stare down from the western sky like two brilliant eyes. Directly below, the crescent moon will form a happy mouth.

"I think it will be very spectacular," Sydney Observatory's astronomer, Nick Lomb, said. "The three brightest objects in the night sky will all be in the same patch of the sky."

As the night draws on, Dr Lomb predicted, "the smiley face" - with Venus playing the left eye and giant Jupiter the right - "will improve and become a little more compact".

To the superstitious, unusual astronomical apparitions were often seen as omens. While Dr Lomb said he did not believe in such things, he noted that Monday's smiling face will appear on the eve of the next Reserve Bank's meeting at which it will consider interest rates.

"There was an upside-down sad face visible on the morning of April 23, 1998," he recalled. That day's Herald was dominated by news of conflict on Australia's waterfront, protests against child-care costs, big rises in bank fees and executions in Rwanda.

Dr Lomb urged people to attempt to photograph tonight's heavenly show, which will not smile on the US or Europe.

"It should be very easy to take a photograph with a digital camera and a tripod. Use a one-, two- or three-second exposure and, of course, no flash."

However the cosmic cheeriness will be a fleeting affair. Another smiley face will not grin over Australia until the early hours of July 21, 2036.

Sydney Observatory will stay open for tonight's show, allowing people to stare back through telescopes and glimpse Jupiter's moons, Venus's gibbous shape and lunar craters.

Cool! My grandma would love it, and I got interested in stuff like that from her as well... will have to take a look at the pictures

[Rainmaster]

I like space, personal space that is. Sometimes, when I'm bored, I go on this forum. But other times when I'm extremely bored I borrow Microsoft's telescope to look at some pictures of pretty bright things in space. You would probably find similar things if you typed 'space images' into Google Image Search or downloaded the program yourself or became me.

Oh and of course the space elevator idea is pretty cool, but they should make it a lift on the way up and a giant slide on the way down.

Top thread making Jez

[Quiet One]

Rainmaster, on Dec 7 2008, 03:21 PM, said:

I like space, personal space that is. Sometimes, when I'm bored, I go on this forum. But other times when I'm extremely bored I borrow Microsoft's telescope to look at some pictures of pretty bright things in space. You would probably find similar things if you typed 'space images' into Google Image Search or downloaded the program yourself or became me.

Oh and of course the space elevator idea is pretty cool, but they should make it a lift on the way up and a giant slide on the way down.

Top thread making Jez

Where the hell have you been?
And why aren't you still there instead of polluting this forum?

[Max Mosley]

Rainmaster, on Dec 7 2008, 05:21 PM, said:

Oh and of course the space elevator idea is pretty cool, but they should make it a lift on the way up and a giant slide on the way down.

Top thread making Jez

  

And yes, it was a good thread, Jez.  Welcome back, George.