26 replies to this topic

[HandyNZL]

OK, so we've seen most of the 2012 cars, and of the 2012 spec car's only McLaren has a "normal" nose.

I  understand why the step is in the other cars....they are following the  max height line as prescribed by the FIA (so Whiting is talking out his  bottom ring piece when he says it is the teams fault for the noses).

But  now Hans-Joachim Stuck has come out to give his expert advise on  whether or not the new cars are ugly.  So I thought "well, what did you  drive in F1 then, matey?"

Entering in 1974 for March, he raced the 741:



I kinda like this car.  Aero was in it's infancy, so we can excuse the nose job...

[HandyNZL]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Yes that's me screaming because I had made such a nice long post with pictures and everything and the forum software gobbled it all up!!!!

[HandyNZL]

In 1975, he raced the March 751 - a few tweaks from the 741, much of which would have been under the hood, so to speak:




Lets play spot the difference with the 741....which is pretty easy when March decided to play around with aero....

[HandyNZL]

In 1976 he was still in a March, this time the 761:



The airbox has gone, and the radiators are out by the tyres, deflecting air....the snorkel brake ducts are a modern addition that this Historics driver has added.....(as it was, as it should be, buddy!!)

[HandyNZL]

In 1977 he raced a bit in a March 761B...which was aesthetically the same as a 761...but he also drove for Mr Ecclestone in the Brabham BT45B, which was the precursor car to the infamous fan-car.  The shape is much more modern.  Maybe Bernie is smarter than Max???

[HandyNZL]

In 1978, he was off racing for Shadow in the DN8 and DN9...the eight is first...



The DN8 looks like it's been shunted up the rear....might as well had a brick wall for a front c#ckpit cowling....

The DN9 was a bit better though:

[BradSpeedMan]

HandyNZL, on 14 February 2012 - 09:59 AM, said:

OK, so we've seen most of the 2012 cars, and of the 2012 spec car's only McLaren has a "normal" nose.

I  understand why the step is in the other cars....they are following the  max height line as prescribed by the FIA (so Whiting is talking out his  bottom ring piece when he says it is the teams fault for the noses).

But  now Hans-Joachim Stuck has come out to give his expert advise on  whether or not the new cars are ugly.  So I thought "well, what did you  drive in F1 then, matey?"

Entering in 1974 for March, he raced the 741:



I kinda like this car.  Aero was in it's infancy, so we can excuse the nose job...

I know what you're up to...appreciation for our new 2012 nose jobs! That's it!!

What was Hans's verdict on the new cars?

[HandyNZL]

In 1979, Stuck raced for the ATS Wheels team.  And herein enters some career symetrey... at March, one of his mechanics would have been NZ's Bill Stone (employee number one for March, and the defacto designer of the first March F1 car).  Bill pretty much ended his involvement in F1 with the ATS team, before going off to do things with Mallock and one Adrian Reynard.

Anyway, the D2 was first that year:



But, was better refined into the D3:

[BradSpeedMan]

HandyNZL, on 14 February 2012 - 10:14 AM, said:

In 1977 he raced a bit in a March 761B...which was aesthetically the same as a 761...but he also drove for Mr Ecclestone in the Brabham BT45B, which was the precursor car to the infamous fan-car.  The shape is much more modern.  Maybe Bernie is smarter than Max???

Nicceee

[HandyNZL]

Soooooo....

Does Mr Stuck have the credentials to be talking ugly?

What is your opinion of the noses now that we have seen them in action and from different angles etc?

Has your view changed from when the Caterham Alligator was first released?

Is the RB8 slot a letterbox for posting important team updates and lap time sheets to Mark and Seb?

[HandyNZL]

@ Brad - he said they were ugly:

Former driver Hans-Joachim Stuck wrote in his German column for Eurosport that he dislikes the look of this year’s F1 cars.

“The tyres are too narrow, the rear wing too small and the front wing  too big, and the nose is a complete failure,” he said. “It’s like  imagining Heidi Klum without her nice behind and bosom, and that’s  unfortunately what they’ve done with the new cars. Let’s hope that  they’re fast, at least.”

[HandyNZL]

@ Brad....the side profile of the BT45B:



as mentioned...it grew into this:





Not the best footage of the fan car....used to be a better one on youtwitface that had more action

[BradSpeedMan]

HandyNZL, on 14 February 2012 - 10:31 AM, said:

@ Brad....the side profile of the BT45B:



as mentioned...it grew into this:





Not the best footage of the fan car....used to be a better one on youtwitface that had more action

This is a one beautiful race car... i think it's the simplicity of the car...

He seems to have the same sentiment as you, so maybe there is some truth in the statement, or maybe you guys just know what you're talking about

I must say the new noses have grown on me, if just slightly, maybe because Kimi drives it now...so it would seem "normal" a few races into the season

Edited by BradSpeedMan, 14 February 2012 - 11:03 AM.

[HandyNZL]

Well they had to keep things simple back then, Brad.  They just couldn't manufacture things like they can today, at least not in quantity.

The side profile of the BT45B does look nice doesn't it?  It's simple and clean, and looks like something that would go fast.  It looks like a dart.

I always wonder why formula cars of the age, and Le Man style cars of the age (like Can Am too), could be so pretty, yet mass producers gave us cars like this:

[Quiet One]

HandyNZL, on 14 February 2012 - 11:21 AM, said:

Well they had to keep things simple back then, Brad.  They just couldn't manufacture things like they can today, at least not in quantity.

The side profile of the BT45B does look nice doesn't it?  It's simple and clean, and looks like something that would go fast.  It looks like a dart.

I always wonder why formula cars of the age, and Le Man style cars of the age (like Can Am too), could be so pretty, yet mass producers gave us cars like this:

Damn, that looks sleek!

Erm...sorry.

[Caesar]

famous French writer Guy de Maupassant hated the Eiffel Tower so much that he  was hiding every evening in the only place in Paris from which he could not see  it, in the restaurant on the top of the tower itself. so i think that drivers don't mind cars looking like that as long as they don't have to look at it while they are driving.

[BradSpeedMan]

Caesar, on 14 February 2012 - 01:37 PM, said:

famous French writer Guy de Maupassant hated the Eiffel Tower so much that he  was hiding every evening in the only place in Paris from which he could not see  it, in the restaurant on the top of the tower itself. so i think that drivers don't mind cars looking like that as long as they don't have to look at it while they are driving.

no Caesar, as long as it gives them reputation and a healthy paycheck

[Caesar]

BradSpeedMan, on 14 February 2012 - 01:39 PM, said:

no Caesar, as long as it gives them reputation and a healthy paycheck

what is healthy in 15 000 000 $ ?

[AleHop]

Caesar, on 14 February 2012 - 01:50 PM, said:

what is healthy in 15 000 000 $ ?

The last zero is the healthiest.


Nice cars. I think I have some of them in an old deck of cards about F1 cars. I loved that game.

[Massa]

They don't bother me.  Finally, years later, I'm being rewarded for being one of those "driver fans."

[freaky2]

Good one there, Eric

[dribbler]

Not one car on the grid has aesthetics anywhere near the top of its agenda. The only considerations in this department are colour and how to appease sponsors with strategic logo placement. Everything else about the way a car looks is governed purely by regulation. All told, I think the cars look pretty good. But let's not pretend they couldn't look a whole lot better, if looks were the primary objective.

So are the cars good looking? Subjective of course, and based on what we all currently hold as the accepted normal look for a Formual One car, no. But there's something special about an object that follows function over form. These current cars do that. In that way, they are beautiful because they are pure with intent.

[BradSpeedMan]

dribbler, on 15 February 2012 - 09:30 AM, said:

Not one car on the grid has aesthetics anywhere near the top of its agenda. The only considerations in this department are colour and how to appease sponsors with strategic logo placement. Everything else about the way a car looks is governed purely by regulation. All told, I think the cars look pretty good. But let's not pretend they couldn't look a whole lot better, if looks were the primary objective.

U should make marketing your career...

[Autumnpuma]

Does ole Hans have the street cred to critisize? Yup. So do we all. Personally, I find the bumpy nose a bit ugly. I like an open-wheel car to have massive rear tyres, and an engine that you can see. I like flowing lines from front to back.

But that isn't ever going to happen again. So. I content myself by agreeing with Steve.

[HandyNZL]

I agree with you Mike...to be able to see the car under the skin; big

The older cars have a life...you can see the welds, the small imperfections, the craftsmanship, how they were so far in advance to road cars of the same period.  Modern cars just seem, well, plastic in comparison.  (And the show cars even have plastic engines!!)

If anyone ever gets the chance to sit in an older single seater, be it a Formula Ford or a Formula One, then you should not pass it up...sit there and think just how little there is to the car, how it's just a 4-cylinder strapped to your back, observe the dings where it's been in a shunt, or how worn the gear knob is....

[Massa]

Fat slicks do help out back, probably make the racing better too...but I think the biggest aesthetic issue with these cars and many others is the airbox.  Even in IndyCar, where they now have turbocharged engines, they're still using an airbox (in fact, a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge one by modern standards, bigger than before).  If you remove the airbox, you get a little something like this, which isn't perfect but in comparison to what they're going to be doing in this era, it's really a nice approach:




(Those are obviously custom models of the real thing, I just happen to think it looks nice in the clothes it never got to wear).

But how the cars look is less important than how the cars sound which is less important than how the cars smell if you're actually at the track (I'm never surprised when dogs are running around on the circuit; anything with a keen sense of smell and hearing is going to get near racecars), which is part of why I hate Ethanol of course because it smells a bit like popcorn to some but even more like the inside of a Burger King to me.

Anyway, they're going to throw these puppies around at Spa and Montréal and Monaco so they can't be that bad.

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer]

In response to ugly or not...

after careful consideration...

Yes, Craig you are

Edited by Grabthaw the Hammerslayer, 16 February 2012 - 06:59 PM.