24 replies to this topic

[Massa]

Felipe Massa had two points.  His teammate had a win.

Michael Schumacher has two points.  His teammate has a win.

Time to suggest who replaces him for Montréal.  Alguersuari, Sutil, Buemi, Liuzzi, Pérez, di Resta, Hülkenberg, Burti, Mazzacane, Guerrieri, López, Rossiter, who else?

[Quiet One]

You are being very unfair. Both are completely different situations. Massa kept crashing against every car around at every race. Schumi, on the other hand...nevermind.

But you should keep in mind that Schumi has never been the same after that horrible, horrible acident he suffered at La Rascasse in 2006.

Ermmm...ok...Ralf? Crashes as much, but will drive for food.

[Argento Reloaded]

Alesi!!!

[Argento Reloaded]

better Barichello!!!

[Massa]

I'm sorry, but Jean Alesi's just cool.  I'm surprised at how many people can drive cars at 220 mph and still be dorks, but that guy, he looks like a racing driver, he talks like a racing driver, he's just got the whole image down.  That Vergne guy paying tribute to him has a little bit of that too.

Honestly, I love that Schumacher, Hamilton, Räikkönen, Grosjean, etc. haven't won yet this year.  It keeps the odds high that we'll get at least a seventh.  I don't think Michael's totally past it and if he started on pole, he probably would have won...

But replace him anyway.  I hear Dmitry Suranovich needs a job.

[dribbler]

Massa.

[HandyNZL]

Massa, on 28 May 2012 - 01:17 AM, said:

I'm sorry, but Jean Alesi's just cool.  I'm surprised at how many people can drive cars at 220 mph and still be dorks, but that guy, he looks like a racing driver, he talks like a racing driver, he's just got the whole image down.  That Vergne guy paying tribute to him has a little bit of that too.

Honestly, I love that Schumacher, Hamilton, Räikkönen, Grosjean, etc. haven't won yet this year.  It keeps the odds high that we'll get at least a seventh.  I don't think Michael's totally past it and if he started on pole, he probably would have won...

But replace him anyway.  I hear Dmitry Suranovich needs a job.

Alesi speaks with a French accent.


I'd so forgotten.

[JHS18]

To be fair, Michael's had a giant lot of bad luck this year. I'd say only Spain was really his fault.

Australia - running strongly when gearbox broke
Malaysia - hit on the first lap after qualifying strongly again
China - loose wheel after pitstop when running second
Bahrain - DRS broke in qualifying, meaning he dropped out in Q1.
Spain - Okay, his error, crashed into Senna.
Monaco - Fuel pick-up problem.

Massa can't claim the same reasons.

No, I know this thread is made in jest, but I think Michael has been a lot better than 2011 - as seen with him setting the fastest time in Monaco at least. If his car had been a bit more reliable, then I'm sure he'd have a lot more points right now.

[Massa]

Results.

[LabradoRacer]

JHS18, on 28 May 2012 - 11:24 AM, said:

To be fair, Michael's had a giant lot of bad luck this year. I'd say only Spain was really his fault.

Australia - running strongly when gearbox broke
Malaysia - hit on the first lap after qualifying strongly again
China - loose wheel after pitstop when running second
Bahrain - DRS broke in qualifying, meaning he dropped out in Q1.
Spain - Okay, his error, crashed into Senna.
Monaco - Fuel pick-up problem.

Massa can't claim the same reasons.

No, I know this thread is made in jest, but I think Michael has been a lot better than 2011 - as seen with him setting the fastest time in Monaco at least. If his car had been a bit more reliable, then I'm sure he'd have a lot more points right now.

This. A pity haters are blind to this.

[Quiet One]

LabradoRacer, on 28 May 2012 - 02:31 PM, said:

This. A pity haters are blind to this.

Nah, we are just writing in jest. Do not take us seriously. At least do not take me seriously, in case you ever did!
After watching the replay it was pretty obvious that it was not Schumi's fault. And everything else we say here is only for humorous purposes.

[Massa]

Yeah, I made the thread in jest and out of boredom, though I do sincerely believe that results are the only thing that will ever matter as long as the rules pay out points for results and nothing else.

One correction: I'm pretty sure Schumacher wasn't in second in China when the wheel came off.  By pretty sure I mean 99.999999%.  It's irrelevant but after the pit stop some guy and some other guy had already cycled ahead of him, plus there was another car that hadn't pitted so he was something like fifth on pace to finish fourth.

I think it says a lot about his character and impact on the sport when you see the other drivers being so happy for him taking pole at Monaco...

...but there aren't points for that so let's get Jean-Éric Vergne out of the Red Bull camp and into a Mercedes...

[LabradoRacer]

Massa, on 28 May 2012 - 04:13 PM, said:

Yeah, I made the thread in jest and out of boredom, though I do sincerely believe that results are the only thing that will ever matter as long as the rules pay out points for results and nothing else.

One correction: I'm pretty sure Schumacher wasn't in second in China when the wheel came off.  By pretty sure I mean 99.999999%.  It's irrelevant but after the pit stop some guy and some other guy had already cycled ahead of him, plus there was another car that hadn't pitted so he was something like fifth on pace to finish fourth.

I think it says a lot about his character and impact on the sport when you see the other drivers being so happy for him taking pole at Monaco...

...but there aren't points for that so let's get Jean-Éric Vergne out of the Red Bull camp and into a Mercedes...

In China, he lost places due to a poor & slow pit stop.

I wish he'd rip Mercedes a new one, instead of being diplomatic. Maybe take a leaf out of Looie's book.

[JHS18]

Massa, on 28 May 2012 - 04:13 PM, said:

Yeah, I made the thread in jest and out of boredom, though I do sincerely believe that results are the only thing that will ever matter as long as the rules pay out points for results and nothing else.

One correction: I'm pretty sure Schumacher wasn't in second in China when the wheel came off.  By pretty sure I mean 99.999999%.  It's irrelevant but after the pit stop some guy and some other guy had already cycled ahead of him, plus there was another car that hadn't pitted so he was something like fifth on pace to finish fourth.

I think it says a lot about his character and impact on the sport when you see the other drivers being so happy for him taking pole at Monaco...

...but there aren't points for that so let's get Jean-Éric Vergne out of the Red Bull camp and into a Mercedes...

Funnily enough I'm 99.9999999999999999999999999% that he WAS second. I distinctly remember he was second before the pit stop, that's what I mean.

Schumacher was definitely P2 up till his pit stop. Then they f*cked up.

Anyway, it is history. It is cruelly ironic that after having a seemingly bullet proof Ferrari for years he's had all this bad luck now, but it happens. It is racing.

Whatever you want to say I still have my memories of seeing Michael set the fastest time in Monaco, supposedly the most difficult circuit on the calendar. And that's good enough for me.

Edited by JHS18, 28 May 2012 - 11:03 PM.

[Massa]

Schumacher memories, eh?

I will confess that my favorite Schumacher memory was him losing an engine at Suzuka in 2006 and losing 10 points to Alonso...of course my favorite Alonso memory was him losing an engine at Monza in 2006 and losing 10 points to Schumacher...I just like drama.

[JHS18]

My favourite Schumacher memory? Hmm. Probably Suzuka '00. Or Shanghai '06. Or Monza '06. Or Interlagos '06.

But that's beside the point.

Michael got close to the podium at Montreal last year (alright, in wet conditions) and if it hadn't been for blasted DRS he'd have probably finished on there. Maybe.

I hope for the same thing this year.

Edited by JHS18, 28 May 2012 - 11:42 PM.

[dribbler]

The subject of Michael's bad luck is an interesting one.

Back in the Ferrari days, it was Barrichello who would get the bad luck. At that stage he was the arguably inferior driver to Michael in the same way that mIchael is arguably inferior to Nico now.

I remember people having the theory that when you are perceived as the better of the two in a team, you get imperceptible favourtism in the minutest of detail which can lead to an advantage. How many thousandth's of a second was Michael's seemingly intimate relationship with his mechanics. The love they had for him and the extra they might put in as a result of him staying a the factory late and taking an interest in them personally?

These are details that Michael used to make his own. Is he doing that now? He seems too relaxed and happy to me. Does he command that inner team respect for being unequivocably the best? Undoubtedly not. Does he have the opportunity to pound the tarmac as the night draws in and maybe have a beer with the test team after? Nope.

Luck is a daft concept. It assumes some sort of predetermined black cloud or ray of sunshine over the top one's head. The reality is you make your own luck by being in control of your own destiny. In F1 that means being the fastest, in the best car, not making mistakes and optimising every nuance of detail available to you. How many of them are true beyond reproach with Michael right now? Not many. How many were true back when he was dominating? Almost all, I would suggest.

Of course it seems daft to suggest that a missed conversation with a mechanic might lead to a fuel pick up problem because he was distracted and didn't tighten a bolt, or that a pit crew member screwed up because he didn't have the fear of God put into him by working on the best driver's car. Or maybe not doing ten more repetitions in the gym might lead to muscle fatigue, meaning you are one hundreth slower on a lap, allowing another to come out of the pits in front of you. That's just silly.

Isn't it?

[BradSpeedMan]

dribbler, on 29 May 2012 - 07:37 AM, said:

The subject of Michael's bad luck is an interesting one.

Back in the Ferrari days, it was Barrichello who would get the bad luck. At that stage he was the arguably inferior driver to Michael in the same way that mIchael is arguably inferior to Nico now.

I remember people having the theory that when you are perceived as the better of the two in a team, you get imperceptible favourtism in the minutest of detail which can lead to an advantage. How many thousandth's of a second was Michael's seemingly intimate relationship with his mechanics. The love they had for him and the extra they might put in as a result of him staying a the factory late and taking an interest in them personally?

These are details that Michael used to make his own. Is he doing that now? He seems too relaxed and happy to me. Does he command that inner team respect for being unequivocably the best? Undoubtedly not. Does he have the opportunity to pound the tarmac as the night draws in and maybe have a beer with the test team after? Nope.

Luck is a daft concept. It assumes some sort of predetermined black cloud or ray of sunshine over the top one's head. The reality is you make your own luck by being in control of your own destiny. In F1 that means being the fastest, in the best car, not making mistakes and optimising every nuance of detail available to you. How many of them are true beyond reproach with Michael right now? Not many. How many were true back when he was dominating? Almost all, I would suggest.

Of course it seems daft to suggest that a missed conversation with a mechanic might lead to a fuel pick up problem because he was distracted and didn't tighten a bolt, or that a pit crew member screwed up because he didn't have the fear of God put into him by working on the best driver's car. Or maybe not doing ten more repetitions in the gym might lead to muscle fatigue, meaning you are one hundreth slower on a lap, allowing another to come out of the pits in front of you. That's just silly.

Isn't it?

I'm not agreeeing with you 100% on some of these points, cause there's too many variables to consider. But i really like your thinking, as I always do...


lovely stuff!!!

Edited by BradSpeedMan, 29 May 2012 - 07:53 AM.

[HandyNZL]

You had to edit a two word post?

[dribbler]

HandyNZL, on 29 May 2012 - 08:44 AM, said:

You had to edit a two word post?

There is a line above, fool.

[HandyNZL]

mmmm......so there is

So how about them Boston Celtics....

[Insider]

I believe Hamilton is a target for Mercedes in 2013. RBR could give him a winning car, Ferrari probably won't. McLaren has given him three clear chances at the WDC and he only managed to grab one. Mercedes are looking good and in my opinion can only continue to improve. If they want to win anything they need the fastest driver in the sport.  It was Michael but it isn't any more. Vettel is German but he won't desert RBR any time soon. If LH wants a change I believe Ross Brawn offers the best alternative.

[Massa]

That's interesting, Sean.  I guess that's one the greatest things about F1 2012: even if things get more "normal" in 2013, it's made so many different teams worthy contenders to attract a lot of these unsigned talents for next year.  We may truly see real bids for drivers this year because you can actually make a case for joining other teams now that so many teams can win and have won.  I never would have picture Hamilton having options for 2013 and figured it would be a de facto McLaren renewal, but because of how competitive it is, now Mercedes is viable for someone like him.  Getting in a team that feels right (i.e. working for Brawn instead of Whitmarsh) becomes more important now; more cars can win, so it's about inspiring the driver to do everything right.  You can almost see taking a step "down" to a team with perhaps a lesser reputation among the Internet message boards in terms of competitiveness as being a beneficial move under these rules where it wasn't in the past (i.e. Alonso leaving McLaren for Renault; he did worse even though he liked his situation more).  Because it's more unpredictable, other factors that you can still control (a driver's comfort and motivation in a team) perhaps become more important, and it makes the driver market a lot more interesting.  We've always had weird rumors, but I can almost believe them this year, and I couldn't in the past.

[dribbler]

Insider, on 30 May 2012 - 11:09 PM, said:

I believe Hamilton is a target for Mercedes in 2013. RBR could give him a winning car, Ferrari probably won't. McLaren has given him three clear chances at the WDC and he only managed to grab one. Mercedes are looking good and in my opinion can only continue to improve. If they want to win anything they need the fastest driver in the sport.  It was Michael but it isn't any more. Vettel is German but he won't desert RBR any time soon. If LH wants a change I believe Ross Brawn offers the best alternative.

I think every team has Hamilton targetted. Who will get him is quite a different story.

Lewis would surely only move to another team if he felt it was a better proposition to win a championship. I don't think Mercedes 'can only continue to improve' any more than I think they could go backwards or leave the sport altogether. Red Bull would be political, with Horner already ruling out a move there last year. Both his boys (with a perceived under dog) are tied on points. No point in upsetting that apple cart for the sake of it. So although Red Bull would certainly be Hamilton's favoured option if he were looking to move, they probably neither want nor need him.

The grass always looks greener, and all that.

[Insider]

dribbler, on 31 May 2012 - 06:55 AM, said:

I think every team has Hamilton targetted. Who will get him is quite a different story.

Lewis would surely only move to another team if he felt it was a better proposition to win a championship. I don't think Mercedes 'can only continue to improve' any more than I think they could go backwards or leave the sport altogether. Red Bull would be political, with Horner already ruling out a move there last year. Both his boys (with a perceived under dog) are tied on points. No point in upsetting that apple cart for the sake of it. So although Red Bull would certainly be Hamilton's favoured option if he were looking to move, they probably neither want nor need him.

The grass always looks greener, and all that.

I have to agree, in part. Ted Mateschitz may consider Hamilton a valuable marketing asset but his moving there would block promotion of a young driver from STR, [though they are not quite ready yet, perhaps] and probably cost Lewis a lost season while he acclimatises in a team where Vettel is deeply embedded. McLaren have supplied a competitive car in three of his five seasons there and despite the sloppy pit side performance of the team in the past two years, it's probably his safest bet still. Mercedes could fold or fall out of F1 in their present form, no doubt about but the team Ross Brawn has assembled there is capable of producing a Championship winning car, I believe whatever banner they may operate under. I think it's all down to the next few races.  I believe if the car doesn't improve radically, he'll be on his bike.