218 replies to this topic

[Lotusguy22]

Massa: 2013

I believe that Felipe Massa will stay with Ferrari for the 2013 season, although his future beyond that is unknown. Massa is still a very capable driver and probably be able to race competetively enough to stay with Ferrari. Some people think that his crash at Hungary messed up his driving. Although I do believe it might have done a little damage to him, It hasn't done anything to his mental side, which has a huge influence on a persons driving. Ferrari isn't ready to drop Massa, and they even said Massa was a primary candidate for the second driver spot. I do think that Massa will stay with Ferrari for at least one more year, and he hasn't run out of juice yet.

[Quiet One]

Lotusguy22, on 29 July 2012 - 06:41 PM, said:

Massa: 2013

I believe that Felipe Massa will stay with Ferrari for the 2013 season, although his future beyond that is unknown. Massa is still a very capable driver and probably be able to race competetively enough to stay with Ferrari. Some people think that his crash at Hungary messed up his driving. Although I do believe it might have done a little damage to him, It hasn't done anything to his mental side, which has a huge influence on a persons driving. Ferrari isn't ready to drop Massa, and they even said Massa was a primary candidate for the second driver spot. I do think that Massa will stay with Ferrari for at least one more year, and he hasn't run out of juice yet.

Welcome aboard, Lotusguy!

I would agree that is more "comfortable" to just keep Massa and keep their options open until a valuable candidate can fill in for Ferrari which doesn't seem to be happening until 2014 at least. But even in that role as a mere filler, Massa is just too expensive. For a guy that does not contribute anything tangible to the team (if he is contributiing in any way, it must be a very well kept secret because they have supported Massa through thin and thick, but never explained WHY!) he currently earns more than the lower half of the grid altogether.
I know nobody seems too rushed to replace him, what I do not understand is why keep a guy that is so expensive with the "potential" of becoming merely a decent number 2.

[Argento Reloaded]

Confirmed 2013 Massa to IRL!

[Massa]

Prediction:

Red Bull
Vettel
Webber

McLaren
Hamilton
Button

Lotus
Räikkönen
Grosjean

Ferrari
Alonso
Kovalainen (one-year deal with 2014 at Sauber)

Mercedes
Rosberg
Schumacher (he'll have enough good races in the next nine to be convinced he can win in 2013)

Sauber
Pérez (2014 Ferrari option)
Alguersuari (too much talk about him for me to believe he won't have a ride)
Fridays: Gutiérrez (grooming for 2014)

Williams
Maldonado
Senna

Force India
di Resta (2014 Mercedes option)
Hülkenberg (barely...really needs to step it up for the rest of the year)
Fridays: Bird (apparently has a contract, possible replacement to di Resta for 2014)

Toro Rosso
Ricciardo
Vergne
Program disappears after 2013...either one will stick and get Webber's seat, or they'll both be gone, but I think Red Bull's time in driver development is winding down

Caterham
Petrov
van der Garde
Fridays: Rossi (Alex, not the skillful one)

Marussia
Glock
Pic

HRT
de la Rosa
Clos

Kobayashi rejoins Toyota for the WEC/Le Mans/Super GT/Nippon schedule a lot of other Toyota drivers are on.  Just gets caught out by not being good enough to get a ride without bringing money, and by so few things even being open.

Massa retires to be a road car consultant with FIAT, testing Chrysler 300s, making the perfect match between a car that can't turn and a driver that can't steer.  Makes a few appearances in the Superstars Series driving a Maserati, since that team uses a lot of ex-F1 guys (Salo, Fittipaldi, Herbert, Klien) on a race-to-race basis and is under the FIAT brand.

[Rainmaster]

Williams are grooming Finn Valtteri Bottas for a ride, with lots of Friday Practice appearances, where he has been impressive at times. So he can at least be added as a potential replacement for Bruno Senna next year.

[Massa]

Oh wow, Bottas totally slipped my mind despite being the most frequent Friday runner this year.  I guess it will come down to who can bring more money...Senna or Bottas.  Not sure how many backers the latter has but it would be interesting to see how the extra Friday model of development works compared to the very few miles in an actual F1 car but a race seat in a lower series, which Bottas doesn't have this year.

[Massa]

Also saw this, which throws Sutil and Kovalainen's names out there with Ferrari, and makes it seem doubtful for Pérez to move up in 2013:

http://www.gpupdate....-about-ferrari/

I think between them contacting Webber, and them not givng Pérez much information about his future, it's not likely we'll see him there yet for all the reasons a lot of posters have been through already.  I just hope Ferrari don't alienate him in their pursuits of Vettel for 2014 or anyone else, because he has a lot of potential.  He's someone who has improved every single year he's been in motor racing, whatever the series, getting better with each step he's taken up the ladder, and while it makes for a lot of bitter people who beat him back in Skip Barber (and bitter fans ), it shows some level of something that's probably pretty good for his future.  I'm not ready to declare him the next WDC (and it's honestly harder to declare any young drivers future champions these days because you still have Vettel and Hamilton who could be competitive for another decade or more, and a few years left in the tank conceivably for Alonso and maybe even another shot from Räikkönen.  The stars aren't aligned for any of today's young drivers given how young the top guys still are, so it'll be extra impressive when someone new breaks into that elite group.  Maybe that's Pérez who does it, maybe it's someone else), but we'll see how his career plays out.

If I can't have Massa at Ferrari, I sort of hope for Sutil, just because that feels so wrong.

[JHS18]

Formula Renault 3.5 front runner, Robin Frijns, is believed to be a candidate for a Sauber driver. Makes sense on the basis Sauber have a history of taking young drivers from feeder series on board.

[Massa]

I'd be fine with that, mostly because I'm biased toward WSR over GP2, so any time a WSR guy can get a seat, that's cool.  Plus, the cars this year are a lot closer to F1 (they even have DRS) than they were in the past, so it'd be interesting to see if the transition has changed from what Vergne and Riccardo are going through this season after coming from the old car.

[Peeweev]

Some interesting ideas for who will go where. Personally I think there will be less movement than we would have thought at the begining of the year, here are my ideas (stolen some ideas from others)

Red Bull
Vettel
Webber

Mclaren
Hamilton
Button

Ferrari
Alsono
Massa (one year extension as he has picked up the past few races)

Mercedes
Rosberg
Schumacher

Lotus
Raikkonen
Grosjean

Sauber
Perez
Kovalainen

Williams
Maldonado
Bottas

Force India
Di Resta
Hulkenberg

Torro Rosso
Sutil
Chandock

Caterham
Petrov
Van der Garde

Marussia
Glock
Pic

HRT
De la Rosa
(some one from GP2 no idea who though)

Some of these will depend on who can bring money into teams i think as mentioned before; ie senna vs bottas. Also thought I would add in some randoms that may never even appear in a F1 car again but may do (chandock i think should for sure!)

[Massa]

Ben Barrichello wants to be back in F1.  There's a difference, of course, between desire and having actual offers.

He's already announced that he will be leaving his current IndyCar team, though he does have some options in that series.  He's complained at first just about the team being unable to set the car up to his liking, but he is now complaining about the series in general.  He says that his driving style makes no difference in the car, as it is 200 kg heavier, has no power steering, and has less reliance on aerodynamic grip than F1 (but still a ton, of course).  He's really frustrated with how poorly his transition has gone, and he's mentioned a few times in the last month how much he misses F1 and how he still watches F1 and how he hopes to talk to F1 teams.

I don't think there will be an opportunity for him.  Might be time to look at sports cars or give it up entirely...

[Quiet One]

Massa, on 22 August 2012 - 07:03 PM, said:

Ben Barrichello wants to be back in F1.  There's a difference, of course, between desire and having actual offers.

He's already announced that he will be leaving his current IndyCar team, though he does have some options in that series.  He's complained at first just about the team being unable to set the car up to his liking, but he is now complaining about the series in general.  He says that his driving style makes no difference in the car, as it is 200 kg heavier, has no power steering, and has less reliance on aerodynamic grip than F1 (but still a ton, of course).  He's really frustrated with how poorly his transition has gone, and he's mentioned a few times in the last month how much he misses F1 and how he still watches F1 and how he hopes to talk to F1 teams.

I don't think there will be an opportunity for him.  Might be time to look at sports cars or give it up entirely...

I feel for the guy. He obviously loves F1. I don't think he is finished, but he will never return to a top team (unless..."Rubinho, Nando is faster...oh, what the hell, you know the drill already!"
He was always an also ran. Too bad because he seemed very talented in his days at Stewart and he has also had some great drives with Ferrari. But that proves than even guys capable of winning the way he won at Hockenheim from last are not enough to be considered greats. That shows how competitive F1 is for all those skeptics. Just like Massa, who we are all regarding as laughing stock despite him being a WDC contestant in 2008.
No mistake people, many of these are also-rans (Rubinho and Felipinho among them), but none of these are completely worthless.

And then there's Piquet Jr, of course...

[JHS18]

It would be interesting to see what Barrichello's performance in this year's Williams would have been - perhaps he'd have done even better than Senna and Maldonado are doing. He's a nice guy, but I think that once you're out of F1, unless you are a former champion (Raikkonen and Schumacher) or young and good enough to warrant another chance (Grosjean), there's not much chance you'll get back in.

[Massa]

Yeah, I don't think any team is going to take on a guy who:

1. While a nice enough guy off the track, will throw his team under the bus whenever he can during a race weekend or season.
2. Is old by F1 standards.
3. Has been away for a year, and was off the year before.
4. Doesn't bring enough money.

You have options who are going to be less demanding or entitled within a team, options who are younger, options who raced this year or were racing these tracks in GP2 or WSR or whatever this year and have testing mileage, and options who bring money.  I'm sure there's an option or two meeting all four.  Barrichello's experience is his only upside, but that doesn't translate into results, just some contributions to development.  Despite his experience, he's only been left-foot-braking for a few years now, he's not experienced with this era of Pirelli tires, and he's spent a year trying to completely alter his driving style to something totally different from F1.  So I'm not sure if his upside even has much valuable, especially in an era where drivers can be 25-years-old and be F1 veterans with tons and tons of mileage in these cars.

[pabloh20]

Eddi Jordan seems certain that Lewis going to Mercedes next year.  Headline on the beeb sport page

Edit - I am not going to link to it, I am sure you can find it

Edited by pabloh20, 05 September 2012 - 03:59 PM.

[Rainmaster]

Well, Mercedes was always the only team where it would make any kind of sense (yet still a huge gamble in terms of results) and might have a vacancy next year. It wouldn't be surprising given the decline in the Lewis/Mclaren relationship. Nevertheless, could just be a negotiating ploy and I'm sure Eddie Jordan is somewhat prone to leaps of the imagination.

[Quiet One]

Rainmaster, on 05 September 2012 - 05:50 PM, said:

Well, Mercedes was always the only team where it would make any kind of sense (yet still a huge gamble in terms of results) and might have a vacancy next year. It wouldn't be surprising given the decline in the Lewis/Mclaren relationship. Nevertheless, could just be a negotiating ploy and I'm sure Eddie Jordan is somewhat prone to leaps of the imagination.

Yup, sounds  like the same mental excercise most of us did in the past, only with EJ's signature and on the BBC site. I have read that same version, with better fundamentation from some posters in here.

That said, why Schumi and not Rosberg? I bet Rosberg feels as frustrated as Schumi, is obviously not Ross Brawn's beloved son, still has some decent years ahead, must feel  like a proven winner after China and at the same time must feel that he is wasting his continuously dwindling perspectives as "the next big promise of a driver" as years pass and Merc goes everywhere but forward.

Nico could easily find another seat and open a position for Lewis.

Schumi is more a marketing ploy by now than the 7 times WDC we knew at Ferrari/Benetton. I'd rather keep a mediocre but highly marketeable Schumi than a mediocre Nico. If Nico has any real potential, it will not show up at Merc, apparently, despite his win.

As for Lewis, this sounds like Alonso's 2008 move, if it ever happens. He is looking not for next year's championship car buut for a friendlier enviroment. Alonso's sabbaticall years at Renault certainly did him good. Perhaps that is what Lewis needs to mature and stop doing stupid things for once. Lewis can certainly learn lots from Schumi.

Just my 2 cents which are 1/2 cent worth.

[Rainmaster]

All very true. Although Bernie's comments on Schumi did seem quite like they'd let the cat out of the bag You never know with Bernie though..

I couldn't help but laugh at this, courtesy of Sniff Petrol:

Edited by Rainmaster, 05 September 2012 - 06:28 PM.

[JHS18]

It'll personally be very painful for me to see Hamilton replace Schumacher next year if that is indeed what happens. On the flip side though, such is the state Mercedes are in right now, at least there's very little chance of Hamilton winning anything other than an egg and spoon race.

Still can't see him leaving McLaren though. He'd be stupid to leave McLaren to go to Mercedes.

[freaky2]

Following Andres's reasoning, the only logical explanation would be that when you put in the balance Mclaren (good car but tense environment) versus Mercedes (???? car and probable welcoming environment) Lewis feels like he could do better. After all, even if 90% car and 10% driver, a driver that's in off form is decisive to the final result in a race. And continuing the off form for a while can be dangerous for said driver.

My point is, Lewis could impress much more in a Mercedes than at McLaren. Even if by the simple rule of "worse car, way more impressive". And that, in the end, could warrant him a much better deal in a championship winning team. And what the hell, the guy has years ahead of him. A little change won't kill him!

[pabloh20]

JHS18, on 06 September 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

Still can't see him leaving McLaren though. He'd be stupid to leave McLaren to go to Mercedes.

It would seem an odd decision, I agree, but decisions like this have been done before.  Occasionally the driver has got lucky and dropped into a very good car.

freaky2, on 06 September 2012 - 02:56 PM, said:

Following Andres's reasoning, the only logical explanation would be that when you put in the balance Mclaren (good car but tense environment) versus Mercedes (???? car and probable welcoming environment) Lewis feels like he could do better. After all, even if 90% car and 10% driver, a driver that's in off form is decisive to the final result in a race. And continuing the off form for a while can be dangerous for said driver.

My point is, Lewis could impress much more in a Mercedes than at McLaren. Even if by the simple rule of "worse car, way more impressive". And that, in the end, could warrant him a much better deal in a championship winning team. And what the hell, the guy has years ahead of him. A little change won't kill him!

Yep, I imagine a bit of guidance from Ross Brawn wouldn't hurt at all, to be honest.

[Massa]

Schumacher will replace Massa.  Just wait.

[Quiet One]

Massa, on 06 September 2012 - 08:32 PM, said:

Schumacher will replace Massa.  Just wait.

I'm not sure a 7 times WDC wants to be remembered as "that old fart they brought to replace Massa"

Actually, I am not sure that "Massa's replacement" would sound like much of a honor to anybody.

Except Rubinho who has been seen at the sides of some tracks with a board saying "I'll drive 4 food"

[JHS18]

Massa, on 06 September 2012 - 08:32 PM, said:

Schumacher will replace Massa.  Just wait.

I'd actually just love that to happen. I grew up watching Schumacher dominate in those red Ferraris, and getting up to watch the 2000 Japanese GP live with my dad (at what felt at such a young age like 3am in the morning) to see him beat Hakkinen and take his first title with Ferrari is something I'll forever remember.

I was so excited when it was announced in '09 that he would be Massa's stand in. Then we got Badoer...

Biased section below. You have been warned. In fact, I'll put it in a spoiler. You've been extra warned.

Spoiler

My personal opinion is that Ferrari screwed up in 2006. They wouldn't wait for Schumacher's decision on whether he wanted to continue or not, signed Raikkonen anyway, and that kinda forced his hand. He didn't want to kick Massa out (how better it would be to know then what we do now ), so retired, and despite what he said at the time, evidently wasn't ready to do so or he'd never have come back in the first place.

I have no doubt that had he continued in '07, he'd have easily won the championship, such was the number of mistakes Hamilton, Alonso, and to a lesser extent, Raikkonen all made that year. He'd have won it by more than just one point!

There. Had to write that. Sorry.

Edited by JHS18, 06 September 2012 - 09:18 PM.

[PaulCrossling]

The 2013 silly season is proving to be one of hte best for years - we have two or possibly three seats avalaible at top four teams, here is how i see it:

Red Bull - Sebastien Vettel and Mark Webber confirmed

McLaren - Jenson Button confirmed, Lewis Hamilton possible unless he decides to move with Di Resta or Rosberg in line to replace him if he does

Ferrari - Fernando Alonso confirmed, Felipe Massa looking as if he is on the way out, Sergio Perez is the only option for me, but they say he needs more experience - after Malaysia and especially today they must reconsider.  Other options; Nico Hulkenberg, Nico Rosberg, Paul Di Resta

Mercedes - Nico Rosberg confirmed, Michael Schumacher possible unless he decides to retire.  I dont think he will but if he does Paul Di Resta will be number one choice to replace him (assuming Hamilton stays at McLaren), failing that Nico Hulkenberg, or Timo Glock

Lotus - Kimi Raikkonen confirmed, Romain Grosjean likley to retain the second seat, but Heikki Koverlainen, Timo Glock and Jerome D'Amborisio are contenders - or possible outside shout for Kevin Korjus?

Force India - Paul Di Resta and Nico Hulkenberg confirmed, unless they are poached by a bigger team, Juiles Bianchi to step up if one of them moves upwards.

Sauber - nothing confirmed, will proberally keep the Sergio Perez and Kamui Kobayasi unless Perez moves to Ferrari, Jaime Alguersuari or Charles Pic in line to replace him

Toro Rosso - nothing confirmed, but Jean-Eric Vergne and Daniel Ricciardo will be kept on, the next generation of Red Bull Juniors, Danill Kyvat and Carlos Sainz Junior are nowhere near ready yet.

Williams - For as long as Maldonardo brings money Williams will employ him, Bruno Senna has improved this season but both are under massive pressure from Valterri Bottas.

Caterham - Would like to keep Heikki Koverlainen but he is wanting to move to the front of the grid, Vitaly Petrov is likley to stay - if one does move on Giedo Van Der Garde for their GP2 team or  Alexander Rossi from their World Series team should get the drive.

Marussia - Timo Glock is under contract but could be poached away by a bigger team, Charles Pic should be kept on if he is also not taken by a bigger team, possible replacement driver Max Chilton from the Marussia sponsored Carlin GP2 team

HRT - Pedro De La Rosa is under contact, he will be joined by Dani Clos, Daniel Juncadella or Ma Qua Hua

[Massa]

Pretty accurate breakdown there.

I think Caterham's succession plan favors van der Garde.  Rossi was supposed to get a lot of Fridays this year, but after his first one, the team never gave him another (rumored he'll be back for the penultimate round in Elroy).  I have a feeling they didn't get much of use from him that day.  Pair it with a hugely disappointing season in Formula Renault, and I think he's out, unless there's massive pressure from the U.S.-based sponsors to bring him up.

Which I wouldn't expect, because my understanding is that most of Caterham's sponsors are Tune Group partners through business ventures, or sold at a huge discount to cherry pick high-profile brands in hopes of attracting even more partners because of those associations.  So I don't think there's a lot of influence there.

Having said that, they'll probably confirm him for a race seat tomorrow.

[JHS18]

I can't help but feel underwhelmed by the suggestion of Alguersuari/Pic replacing Kobayashi. But still, he badly needs a podium result, or more, during the remaining part of the season if he's to be there enxt year.

Even more underwhelmed by Ma Qing Hua...just why? What is the point? HRT have done an amazing job to find somebody even LESS qualified than Narain Karthikeyan, and that takes some doing. When there's so many good drivers waiting for a chance to get into F1, and Ma Qing Hua takes it, that'll just be ridiculous. HRT might as well not even bother turning up to races any more in that case, because it is pretty obvious they wouldn't care about performance, or improving.

But watch nothing change and see how disappointed we all end up.

[PaulCrossling]

The thing that surprises me most with Ma Qing Hua is how did he get a super licence to be allowed to take part?  He has done nothing in his career to suggest that he deserves one or a capable of racing in F1.  I remember the battle Raikkonen had to get one because he had only started 13 single seat races - but even he was more qualified

[Quiet One]

PaulCrossling, on 10 September 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

The thing that surprises me most with Ma Qing Hua is how did he get a super licence to be allowed to take part?  He has done nothing in his career to suggest that he deserves one or a capable of racing in F1.  I remember the battle Raikkonen had to get one because he had only started 13 single seat races - but even he was more qualified

Alonso won a couple of Formula Nissan Series and next year ended up 4th in F3000. Those were his biggest diplomas (unless you count the kart days but there are many guys with similar achievments).
Nelsinho had amuch more impressive career pre-F1. Grosjean and Maldonado as well.

You people have too much faith in the so called "feeder series". I'd rather trust Briatore's or Stoddard's intuition any day over a hundred cups won in lower formulae.

[JHS18]

Apparently winning the Chinese Touring Car Championship (yes, such a thing really does exist) is now the ticket to a super license.