26 replies to this topic

[Insider]

Whitmarsh's confession today that he is unsure about Sergio Perez's potential has me mystified. I felt it was a risky call to sign him, no doubt about it. The thing is - who made that call? Dennis? It would appear that the plan is to build the car around JB [who is more than capable of winning another Championship in my book], and let Sergio learn his craft. Their driving styles are not poles apart and the young Mexican can profit enormously from being in the same garage as the 2009 WDC. Perhaps he can move up to the 'next' level with a little moulding and coaching. Who knows? JB is on record as saying he would like to coach young drivers in the future. I can understand the argument that PDR and the Hulk are already in a pretty good car but not really doing a lot with it and they were probably overlooked for that reason. Perez has the backing of the world's richest man, Carlos Slim and that is not to be sniffed at even for a solidly solvent McLaren. So, all is well - right?

Personally, sponsors aside I would have signed Magnussen. He's going to be huge - I feel it in my water! I've seen them all come and go and he looks different class to me. Chilton is quick but the Dane has the edge on all the young bucks to my mind. That said, the deal is done. Or, is it? Whitmarsh's remarks have a strange smell to them, methinks. Is a turnaround in the offing here? Can't remember it being done before but with Magnussen's performance in Dubai today, maybe there's a shift in the air. It won't be because of the latter completely but Perez's drive on Sunday was poor by any standard and he didn't look like a WDC-in-wating to me and he definitely didn't look like a Macca pilot, for sure.  I may be crazy but I'm not daft and I know a seriously apprehensive TP when I see one. Martin has the jitters - I'm sure of it. Is there something on the wind?

[Massa]

Pérez is a confusing prospect, and his driving has worsened substantially since he announced his McLaren deal (he has not scored a point since, and looked sloppy at Suzuk and again at Abu Dhabi...I missed Singapore and India, so I can't comment there).

If you look at Pérez' entire career, it's not been a traditional path.  He started in America's Skip Barber National Championship and finished a wretched P11 behind quite a few guys who went on to accomplish nothing as pluggers and legacy drivers in U.S. series.  Though he was very young, he was beaten by drivers who were even younger, and in other seasons, drivers of his age at won races in that championship (something Pérez did not do).

From there, he moved on to Europe, winning 0 races in two seasons of Formula BMW ADAC, ranking P14 and P6 in the championships.  He also ran two races in A1GP, one retirement and one finish out of the points.

This guy wasn't on anyone's radar to be an F1 driver.  He dominated the National Class of British F3, and then the following year he took four wins in the true BF3.  He won two of the races from GP2 Asia after that.

And then he faded.  P12 in 2009's GP2 with a few bright spots, and P15 in that winter's GP2 Asia Series on a partial schedule.

Then, against what had been the weakest GP2 field in history (until every subsequent one ), he was P2 in the championship in a massively inconsistent run highlighted by 5 wins and from there, went to F1, where he's been great times, awful at others, somewhere in between, too.  Points-wise, he's absolutely improved by such a huge margin this year (66 in 18 this year...14 in the 18 he did last year).

A summary of Pérez' career?  Absolutely inconsistent, both in championship classification, and in the results within those seasons.  Even his good years were plagued with retirements and finishes outside of the points.

I think Pérez can become a McLaren driver.  His good races are very Button-like, and in a McLaren, he won't always have to be making these brave overtakes against unsteady mid-fielders, and clean overtaking seems to be a weakness of his.

I have another theory about Pérez...with Pirelli making the tires more predictable as the year went on, did Pérez/Sauber lose a big advantage they had?

That doesn't excuse poor driving.  I just wonder if Pérez has enough dimensions.  At the same time, this has been such a tough season to conclude anything about.  Did Pérez look better because the bigger teams all ran into periods of struggle, inflating our expectations of him to the point that he's actually driving fine, but we can't see that?

I think McLaren will help.  Button's presence, being in a better car in general, and being in fewer situations of desperate overtaking can't make things worse.

[Rainmaster]

The difference in SP's driving is probably because he now has the expectation of driving "like a Mclaren driver", rather than the luxury of only being noticed when he outperforms the Sauber. It's obviously something which will intensify next season and that he needs to cope with.

[Insider]

All good stuff and hugely informative input from Eric. My point was, is all well at Macca? Do they think they have made an error? I guess only time will tell.

[Massa]

I'd tend to think McLaren's trying to fire Pérez up a bit for the last two races to re-prove himself, but it's definitely an interesting point that you rise.  That said, doubt inspires doubt.  McLaren can't feel great about this year and their reliability issues, and even if there were issues with Hamilton, Whitmarsh obviously wanted him to stay.  Is it just a down time in general for the time, that's making them question just about everything?

I see what George is saying, too.  When Pérez was trying to pass Hamilton at Suzuka and blew it, I got an impression of someone trying way too hard to show off to his new team and prove he was better than the guy he was replacing.  That could be dead wrong; it just looked that way.

[Quiet One]

Reading the article which, as usual, is an edited comment on some edited comments on something Whitmarsh replied to an unquoted question, I am not so sure he meant that doubts have crept in after the past 4 races. If the (unquoted) question had been "Are you sure that Perez will be as good as Hamilton?" then the reply is perfectly natural, measured and in any way a hint of McLaren repenting of their choice.

That said, Perez did suck these past 4 races

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer]

Quiet One, on 06 November 2012 - 10:55 PM, said:

That said, Perez did suck these past 4 races

Dare I say it.... <gulp> ....

Maldanado was more impressive....

[Insider]

Quiet One, on 06 November 2012 - 10:55 PM, said:

Reading the article which, as usual, is an edited comment on some edited comments on something Whitmarsh replied to an unquoted question, I am not so sure he meant that doubts have crept in after the past 4 races. If the (unquoted) question had been "Are you sure that Perez will be as good as Hamilton?" then the reply is perfectly natural, measured and in any way a hint of McLaren repenting of their choice.

That said, Perez did suck these past 4 races

This is all true but it is a punt either way. They've seen something they feel they can improve on and they hope they're right. They will struggle with the car next year again but I do believe JB will be on his game with LH gone. You are never at your best when your team mate is all over you. Perez, on the other hand is exposed. He is in one of the best rides on the grid and he needs to shine. I'm just not sure he can.

[Quiet One]

Insider, on 07 November 2012 - 06:16 PM, said:

This is all true but it is a punt either way. They've seen something they feel they can improve on and they hope they're right. They will struggle with the car next year again but I do believe JB will be on his game with LH gone. You are never at your best when your team mate is all over you. Perez, on the other hand is exposed. He is in one of the best rides on the grid and he needs to shine. I'm just not sure he can.

Nobody is sure. He seemed great mostly based on a single strategy: one pitstop. However, he also showed glimpses of great speed and attack skills when needed (his battle against Alonso seemed specially impressive these younguns had no respect as they had back in Schumi's times! )

In any case, he is obviously just a green driver still, and he will benefit a lot from Jenson's tutoring.

As for Button, if he can find again his comfort zone (something very possible as they will need a gentler car for both their drivers next year) he is going  to be a serious contender. He can make the team work behind him much better than Lewis, I think. They do need a leader now, someone to spur them on. I think Jenson is too nice to be a Nando at Ferrari, or a Vettel at RBR, but McLaren is also very different from both Ferrari and RBR. Who knows?

[brambilla]

What Happened the last two times McLaren took on Hispanic Drivers ? I guess third time's the charm   They did have some success with one after all ...

[AleHop]

brambilla, on 07 November 2012 - 09:02 PM, said:

What Happened the last two times McLaren took on Hispanic Drivers ? I guess third time's the charm.    They did have some success with one after all ...

Where are you from? I'm just asking because I normaly don't see the word Hispanic very often. I like it more than latin drivers although you can use it if you include French, Italian and Romanian drivers as well as Spanish and Portuguese ones. And of course Hispanic Americans.

Edited by AleHop, 07 November 2012 - 10:46 PM.

[Insider]

McLaren rarely hire duds of any nationality. 8 WCCs, 12 WDCs. Only Ferrari can better those stats. I'm concerned they just snatched at Perez a bit. Only time will tell.

[brambilla]

AleHop, on 07 November 2012 - 10:32 PM, said:

Where are you from? I'm just asking because I normaly don't see the word Hispanic very often. I like it more than latin drivers although you can use it if you include French, Italian and Romanian drivers as well as Spanish and Portuguese ones. And of course Hispanic Americans.

Texas, Austin actually I was about to type "Latino" , but it's considered offensive at times. I figured "Hispanic" sounds better .. :?

[Quiet One]

brambilla, on 08 November 2012 - 03:33 AM, said:

Texas, Austin actually I was about to type "Latino" , but it's considered offensive at times. I figured "Hispanic" sounds better .. :?

Texas? Are you the Major of Elroy, perhaps? Btw, I thought about writing something in the lines of "please, any Texans out there do not take offense" in my post about Elroy, but then I thought "Nah, who in Texas would be reading this?"
Now I know, so I hope you didn't take any offense, I am merely messing with the usual stereotypes.

[pedantic mode on] As for "Latino" vs "Hispanic" even if  both are ethimologically correct, common usage tends to think of "Latino" as a shorter version of Latinoamerican. I don't think of any of those words offensives per se.

[AleHop]

...

Edited by AleHop, 08 November 2012 - 01:18 PM.

[AleHop]

brambilla, on 08 November 2012 - 03:33 AM, said:

Texas, Austin actually I was about to type "Latino" , but it's considered offensive at times. I figured "Hispanic" sounds better .. :?

Oh, I guess you're attending the race. Lucky you!

As Andres said both words are correct and not offensive per se. Latin American is a broader term than Hispanic American = Iberamerican and would include drivers like Villeneuve. Just Latin driver is an even broader term that would include drivers like Fangio, Villeneuve and Senna together with Europeans like Ascalli, Prost or Alonso.

[brambilla]

AleHop, on 08 November 2012 - 01:17 PM, said:

Oh, I guess you're attending the race. Lucky you!

As Andres said both words are correct and not offensive per se. Latin American is a broader term than Hispanic American = Iberamerican and would include drivers like Villeneuve. Just Latin driver is an even broader term that would include drivers like Fangio, Villeneuve and Senna together with Europeans like Ascalli, Prost or Alonso.

I wish I were attending ! I moved to Sydney about 2 years ago - right around the time Tavo Hellmund started tooting his own horn   I've never made it out to Melbourne though, the wife thinks it's better to spend the money on tourist jaunts in this side of the world , she doesnt know about the better things in life Hoping to get back to Austin in a year or two, maybe I'll get to the GP then.

It is a mystifying choice. There isnt any motorsport presence in Austin at all. I guess they're hoping to get a lot of people from Central \ South America, Since Houston is probably a direct flight from down there, and only a 3 hour drive from  Austin. Oh well, hope it'll be good.

[AleHop]

brambilla, on 08 November 2012 - 08:56 PM, said:

Oh well, hope it'll be good.

All F1 fans have great expectations and hopes pinned on this race.

A Vettel DNF?

[Quiet One]

brambilla, on 08 November 2012 - 08:56 PM, said:

It is a mystifying choice. There isnt any motorsport presence in Austin at all. I guess they're hoping to get a lot of people from Central \ South America, Since Houston is probably a direct flight from down there, and only a 3 hour drive from  Austin. Oh well, hope it'll be good.

I guess most latinos will come from Mexico. For us in the distant Argentina, a trip to Austin takes almost as long as a trip to Spain (if a direct flight, give or take a couple of hours) and almost as expensive. For us is either money enough to go to Monaco, or barely enough to make it to Interlagos. And 90% is like me, enough money to pay to view all of them on cable

[Massa]

They had said 80% of the tickets were sold to U.S. customers (who could obviously be originally from Latin America, or of Latin American descent, though with the cost of the tickets, you sort of get the feeling that it's going to be a lot of aging white guys and I say that as someone who will be one soon enough...hair's already not as thick as it used to be, but the hairline's still looking fine so no complaints yet...), and 20% to international, with the majority of those buyers being from Mexico.

In lieu of cool technical developments which are both exciting, easy-enough-to-understand, and legal enough to become public knowledge, I consider Pérez/McLaren one of the more interesting aspects of 2013 because I just can't get a read on him.  Maybe he'll be the new Massa.  In which case, I'll have to like him.

[AleHop]

Massa, on 09 November 2012 - 01:53 AM, said:

They had said 80% of the tickets were sold to U.S. customers (who could obviously be originally from Latin America, or of Latin American descent, though with the cost of the tickets, you sort of get the feeling that it's going to be a lot of aging white guys and I say that as someone who will be one soon enough...hair's already not as thick as it used to be, but the hairline's still looking fine so no complaints yet...), and 20% to international, with the majority of those buyers being from Mexico.

My brother lives in Seattle and he refused to go  because of the money it cost (tickets+hotel must be a lot of money). I got surprised because he's gone a few times to some other GP's like Montreal few years ago and he normally doesn't mind too much about spending some money.

Massa, on 09 November 2012 - 01:53 AM, said:

In lieu of cool technical developments which are both exciting, easy-enough-to-understand, and legal enough to become public knowledge, I consider Pérez/McLaren one of the more interesting aspects of 2013 because I just can't get a read on him.  Maybe he'll be the new Massa.  In which case, I'll have to like him.

I bet they would be extremely happy in McLaren if Pérez results are as good as Massa's in 2006, 2007 and 2008 at Ferrari.

[KoolMonkey]

Whitmarsh to me is almost anti Ron Dennis, and I still say the secret long lost sibling of Nick Fry.

He's alot more candid when it comes to revealing information. With regards to Perez, well a few months ago he was getting plenty of kudos, now not so much. Whether he's the right choice for McLaren, as boring as it sounds, only time will tell. But I have a feeling he might end up only being a seat warmer like Kovi's stint in the team.

My thought is McLaren panicked when they picked Perez. They would have had many drivers knocking on their door, and even wanting to break existing contracts to get that drive. Button isn't going to get it done, and I havn't seen anyone rate him lower than Perez. Thus it's a wasted opportunity to get a better driver into a better seat.

[Jean-Pierre]

Perez is young and the pressure of the media attention during the announcement of his team change and the obligation to perform at an even higher standard probably got to him.

He already is one of the best on the wet and we know he can be extremely fast.

I think it is a good choice for mac  and that he will show his magic (beating LH during quali) one or two times next year.

[Insider]

KoolMonkey, on 09 November 2012 - 08:22 AM, said:

Whitmarsh to me is almost anti Ron Dennis, and I still say the secret long lost sibling of Nick Fry.

He's alot more candid when it comes to revealing information. With regards to Perez, well a few months ago he was getting plenty of kudos, now not so much. Whether he's the right choice for McLaren, as boring as it sounds, only time will tell. But I have a feeling he might end up only being a seat warmer like Kovi's stint in the team.

My thought is McLaren panicked when they picked Perez. They would have had many drivers knocking on their door, and even wanting to break existing contracts to get that drive. Button isn't going to get it done, and I havn't seen anyone rate him lower than Perez. Thus it's a wasted opportunity to get a better driver into a better seat.

Of course, I concur that Perez's signing was very much a 'knee-jerk' reaction from McLaren but I have to disagree that Button won't get the job done. Brawn gave him a great car and he did get the job done. I think people will be very surprised just how much Jenson will up his game once the spectre of Hamilton is gone. He is a class act and I believe he will shine in a car designed around him.

[KoolMonkey]

You're right Button certainly got the job done with Brawn, but to me appears to be a driver akin to the princess and the pea. Only when everything it perfect can he dominate vs the car still not quite where a driver wants it and still getting on the podium or getting the win. Points and wins/podiums don't always tell the story though. As much as I dislike him for his behaviour, Hamilton seems to be this year to be getting way better results from the car, or at least speed anyway as I know he's had alot of DNFs.

Some drivers only click when everything is perfect in their car. But how often does that really happen.

[Massa]

I get the feeling that Button will be really good next year.  Sometimes I wonder if his personality is too "normal" for us to think he's a great driver.

Is Hamilton a better driver?  In terms of raw speed/talent, sure.

But Button's been just as good at getting results (the things that decide the championships) as Hamilton has been this year and last.  If we can see Hamilton as a threat to the title year-in-and-year-out, we can see Button as one, too.

(That does ignore the possibility that maybe we should have never considered Hamilton a title threat, though).

[HandyNZL]

Yeah, nah, Hamilton won't be a title threat next year....or the next one....or the one after that....or the next.....

Perez will do OK - he'll score points, and he'll be more under control at McLaren than he is at Sauber.  They have the money for such things as head doctors / sports psychologists etc; Sauber, not so much.

If it was OK for Hamilton to hit Massa every other race the other year and still be considered a threat / fast / whatever, then it's OK if Perez has the odd stumble too.

I'd rather drivers did stumble from time to time actually.  Otherwise it's all just robots.