209 replies to this topic

[narain fan]

cavallino, on Dec 30 2006, 12:28 AM, said:

If you plan to push that ridiculous theory, you can enumerate how Gujaratis, Mumbaiites or any such creatures guarantee equality and fair rights to women.

  ah! so you want me to give a Subjective view, just like  how some posters have in this thread .
and if you dont want to read my posts,no on is forcing you

[cavallino]

You don't begin a sentence without a capital. You don't use random capital(s) in the middle of a sentence to emphasise words, you use italics. That is not how you place a comma. You are using your usual tactic of trying to gain lame beownie points and attacking people instead of taking part in a debate, frankly that makes your posts extremely annoying and completely pointless, you wouldn't dare give an opinion or you'd be forced to defend it, instead you nitpick with others, or just come back with lame provocative arguments that make no logical sense, and refuse to clarify when asked. In short, you are a prize idiot.

[narain fan]

cavallino, on Dec 30 2006, 12:44 AM, said:

You don't begin a sentence without a capital. You don't use random capital(s) in the middle of a sentence to emphasise words, you use italics. That is not how you place a comma. You are using your usual tactic of trying to gain lame beownie points and attacking people instead of taking part in a debate, frankly that makes your posts extremely annoying and completely pointless, you wouldn't dare give an opinion or you'd be forced to defend it, instead you nitpick with others, or just come back with lame provocative arguments that make no logical sense, and refuse to clarify when asked. In short, you are a prize idiot.

haha so  i did mannage to ruffle your PUNJABI bones
take a chill pill ,dude.

Edited by narain fan, 29 December 2006 - 07:16 PM.

[cavallino]

No it's just something I wanted to say for months, don't know why I didn't. **** off.

[narain fan]

cavallino, on Dec 30 2006, 12:49 AM, said:

No it's just something I wanted to say for months, don't know why I didn't. **** off.

oh thanks ,
stop drinking  whatever  2@@@ that  is troubling you ..

[Max Mosley]

mock, on Dec 29 2006, 10:37 AM, said:

It's a cultural difference, you wouldn't understand........For us fidelity and single partners are the norm [...]

Are you using "us" to mean indians here Mock?  And is the cultural difference one between India and the West?  I assumed it was but I suppose it's just possible I was wrong.

Shane2, on Dec 29 2006, 05:54 PM, said:

i go for relationships not cheap sex.

If you found a girl who also wanted cheap sex, and you weren't in a relationship etc, you wouldn't say no though surely?

narain fan, on Dec 29 2006, 06:39 PM, said:

what a load of rubbish . he never said anything that implies that  India has a Cultural Superiority .....
though he wouldnt be wrong in saying so,in no uncertain terms...

Well perhaps.  Lets see what he says.  Anyway even if he didn't, you now have.

cavallino, on Dec 29 2006, 06:42 PM, said:

It's far from perfect though as you'd well know, particularly in terms of what kids are made to believe at an impressionable age.

Yes you're right.  There's plenty of room for improvement.  The thing about the problems that interests me is that, often far from people like Dan (and me, to a less successful extent) causing trouble, the problems arise from women themselves.  For instance I think young girls have terrible role models in their pop stars.

cavallino, on Dec 29 2006, 06:42 PM, said:

Good for him and others who choose and prefer that path, not for me though

What do you mean?  You don't want to get married?

cavallino, on Dec 29 2006, 07:14 PM, said:

In short, you are a prize idiot.

Indeed.  Sadly.

[mock]

Murray Walker, on Dec 29 2006, 04:57 PM, said:

Hmm.   I have to say I'm not at all convinced of any cultural superiority in the way women are treated in India, although I do agree there probably is a difference.  It always strikes me that generally those countries where women are most "respected" in the way Mock suggests are the countries where women really have the fewest rights and least protection.

Call me a cultural imperialist but I quite like the situation in the West: girls have equality (and then some) and guys are free to try to get laid as often as we want (and I don't believe any guy who says he doesn't want some casual action).

Having said that, your wife is very beautiful Mock and eventually I think all guys do want the kind of relationship you're advocating - we just want some fun before then.

No cultural superiority implied. As I said, it's a cultural difference, I don't expect you to understand it. It's one thing to fantasize about 'casual action', every body fantasizes about having casual action, but if you are in a relationship, for me, casual action on the side would be a crime. If you are not in a relationship, for me, sex would be a part of forming a relationship. In my view, which I realise would not be shared by many, casual sex is as good as whoring around without paying for it...

BTW by we I did mean Indians in general, this is the societal norm in India, though to generalise would be foolish.

Thanks. Incidentally, I am a Christian though I cannot claim to be a very good one, but I still would like to believe there are values and societal values espoused in the Bible which need to be followed, I'd like to stick to those

[mock]

Shane2, on Dec 29 2006, 11:24 PM, said:

No, i do not like fat girls actually, i just don't like using girls, i go for relationships not cheap sex. People like you are what is wrong with modern society.

The mark of a real man

[Autumnpuma]

mock, on Dec 29 2006, 11:47 PM, said:

No cultural superiority implied. As I said, it's a cultural difference, I don't expect you to understand it. It's one thing to fantasize about 'casual action', every body fantasizes about having casual action, but if you are in a relationship, for me, casual action on the side would be a crime. If you are not in a relationship, for me, sex would be a part of forming a relationship. In my view, which I realise would not be shared by many, casual sex is as good as whoring around without paying for it...

BTW by we I did mean Indians in general, this is the societal norm in India, though to generalise would be foolish.

Thanks. Incidentally, I am a Christian though I cannot claim to be a very good one, but I still would like to believe there are values and societal values espoused in the Bible which need to be followed, I'd like to stick to those

[cavallino]

Murray Walker, on Dec 30 2006, 09:50 AM, said:

Well perhaps.  Lets see what he says.  Anyway even if he didn't, you now have.
Yes you're right.  There's plenty of room for improvement.  The thing about the problems that interests me is that, often far from people like Dan (and me, to a less successful extent) causing trouble, the problems arise from women themselves.  For instance I think young girls have terrible role models in their pop stars.

Indeed, but then they are impressionable, and it is up to society to foster different images of women. I am sure they could be made to have different role models. We just see and hear too much of film stars models pseudo-musicians etc. in general, and it affects kids.

Quote

What do you mean?  You don't want to get married?

Don't think so.

[dribbler]

Can i end this thread with a summarizing phrase? It is a one size fits all notion,

**** it, but love it.

[Max Mosley]

Sorry Steve!  It's too much fun...

mock, on Dec 30 2006, 07:47 AM, said:

No cultural superiority implied. As I said, it's a cultural difference, I don't expect you to understand it.

But the following post strongly suggests that the "cultural differences" mean women get treated better in India, Mock.

mock, on Dec 29 2006, 10:37 AM, said:

It's a cultural difference, you wouldn't understand........For us fidelity and single partners are the norm, women are special and important and treated with respect whether their role is that of a sister, a wife, a mother or a girlfriend.  It's also about mutual respect and understanding..... It is also a situtation that we are entirely happy with.  [...]  Therefore we generally raise happy families and well adjusted kids, who will still respect and care for us irrespective of our age, our earning capacity or what we leave them in a will.

Are you saying that women being treated with more "respect" etc is just a "difference", and not something that makes India's treatment of women better than the West's?  If so that seems a strange thing to say.  Also I disagree that women are given more respect overall in India, but that's no indication or reflection of your personal beliefs of course.

mock, on Dec 30 2006, 07:47 AM, said:

It's one thing to fantasize about 'casual action', every body fantasizes about having casual action, but if you are in a relationship, for me, casual action on the side would be a crime. If you are not in a relationship, for me, sex would be a part of forming a relationship. In my view, which I realise would not be shared by many, casual sex is as good as whoring around without paying for it...

But if you find a girl who wants that too then what's everyone's problem?  I personally think it's just prudish and also sexist actually, because it suggests women can't have that freedom or be trusted to make that choice, perhaps because men will surely outwit and mislead them.

mock, on Dec 30 2006, 07:47 AM, said:

Thanks. Incidentally, I am a Christian though I cannot claim to be a very good one, but I still would like to believe there are values and societal values espoused in the Bible which need to be followed, I'd like to stick to those

I'm not a xian particularly but even I think there are values espoused in the Bible that ought to be followed.  Having said that, I refuse to cede my moral judgement to a book, however well written.  The better thing to do is to read the Bible, reflect critically on its contents, and use that to inform your own beliefs, not copy it's ideas slavishly and uncritically.  In this case I see nothing wrong with two normal, consenting adults choosing to have casual sex.  (Interestingly there were problems with it in Jesus' time, because women had no rights back then!  Times change though and so should our views)

[Max Mosley]

cavallino, on Dec 30 2006, 09:57 AM, said:

Indeed, but then they are impressionable, and it is up to society to foster different images of women. I am sure they could be made to have different role models. We just see and hear too much of film stars models pseudo-musicians etc. in general, and it affects kids.

Yeah I agree.  I just meant that a lot of the poor role models they have are female!  They cause as many problems as sexist men, it always seems to me, which I think is hilarious.

cavallino, on Dec 30 2006, 09:57 AM, said:

Don't think so.

Oh!  I'd like to eventually.

[Shane2]

Quote

If you found a girl who also wanted cheap sex, and you weren't in a relationship etc, you wouldn't say no though surely?

To be honest i am not sure i would. I am not very self-confident, and do not start performing well until i get to know the person, and for the sake of a cheap orgasm i may as well just bash one out

[mock]

[quote name='Murray Walker' post='163947' date='Dec 30 2006, 08:35 PM'][quote]Sorry Steve!  It's too much fun...
But the following post strongly suggests that the "cultural differences" mean women get treated better in India, Mock.[/quote]
[quote]Are you saying that women being treated with more "respect" etc is just a "difference", and not something that makes India's treatment of women better than the West's?  If so that seems a strange thing to say.  Also I disagree that women are given more respect overall in India, but that's no indication or reflection of your personal beliefs of course.[/quote]

Read my post again. I never said they were treated with 'more' respect. I said they were treated with respect. You may draw whatever inferences you want to from that.

It depends on what you mean by respect, the views of respect are again cultural differences. We have a different view point on what respect implies. It's easy to confuse respect with equality. And I don't believe women are equal to men in the West, they may have more freedom of choice than their counterparts in the East and life may be easier for them, but it's all relative.


[quote]But if you find a girl who wants that too then what's everyone's problem?  I personally think it's just prudish and also sexist actually, because it suggests women can't have that freedom or be trusted to make that choice, perhaps because men will surely outwit and mislead them.[/quote]---

[quote]I'm not a xian particularly but even I think there are values espoused in the Bible that ought to be followed.  Having said that, I refuse to cede my moral judgement to a book, however well written.  The better thing to do is to read the Bible, reflect critically on its contents, and use that to inform your own beliefs, not copy it's ideas slavishly and uncritically.  In this case I see nothing wrong with two normal, consenting adults choosing to have casual sex.  (Interestingly there were problems with it in Jesus' time, because women had no rights back then!  Times change though and so should our views)[/quote]

-----

[Hunt]

dark rider 13, on Dec 16 2006, 03:33 PM, said:

just wondered how every1 on this forum goes up to a gilr they dont even no and start talkin to her ???


and yes im bein serious

You sound young. Teens? I will assume so.

As a bad song once said, love is a battlefield. Approach it like a war. Information is the key to success, so gather as much as possible before you approach her.

First do your homework. Become a scout and watch her travel patterns. Take note of what classroom she goes into at certain parts of the day and when she's with friends and when she's alone. Pick a path you like and walk that way, with her (but not talking to her) for a week (needless to say, you should be looking your best). Next try to get a look at her books or anything on her that gives you an idea of her interests. Google those interests and read up. Now that you know the enemy, it's time for contact.

Divide and conquer. Catch the lass when she's away from her gaggle of friends (and if you've done your job, this will coincide with those walks I've talked about) but don't make a beeline towards her or you'll frighten her off. Now that you've established that you are a normal person walking the same bit of corridor that she does, each day, you can safely strike up a conversation. A good starter is to complain about an instructor you both have (or had) that you know is particularly bad. Or do the same with one who is good. Improvise.

Well that should get you a few steps closer to her nether-regions but if it all seems rather long and drawn out, you can simply go up to her and say "Hi, I'm dark rider 13, wanna get a cup of coffee (or tea or whatever) after school? My treat" This will almost always work as the girl will probably have already decided about you from the word 'Hi'

[Max Mosley]

mock, on Jan 1 2007, 08:06 AM, said:

Read my post again. I never said they were treated with 'more' respect. I said they were treated with respect. You may draw whatever inferences you want to from that.

It depends on what you mean by respect, the views of respect are again cultural differences. We have a different view point on what respect implies. It's easy to confuse respect with equality. And I don't believe women are equal to men in the West, they may have more freedom of choice than their counterparts in the East and life may be easier for them, but it's all relative.
---
-----

With the greatest respect Mock, this is hopelessly obfuscatory.  You clearly implied there was something better in your opinion about the "Indian" way, otherwise why bother telling us about it in this context?

[mock]

Murray Walker, on Jan 2 2007, 08:57 PM, said:

With the greatest respect Mock, this is hopelessly obfuscatory.  You clearly implied there was something better in your opinion about the "Indian" way, otherwise why bother telling us about it in this context?

---------------

you are confusing respect with equality

[Max Mosley]

Which is it that India does better?

[mock]

Murray Walker, on Jan 3 2007, 10:55 PM, said:

Which is it that India does better?

You are definitely not baiting me with that

[kup]

dribbler, on Dec 30 2006, 04:02 PM, said:

Can i end this thread with a summarizing phrase? It is a one size fits all notion ... **** it, but love it.

+1 Agreed. And BTW how do deaf and blind talk 2 girls and even pick-up`em ? Mission IS possible. AFAIK.

[Max Mosley]

mock, on Jan 6 2007, 03:07 PM, said:

You are definitely not baiting me with that

  Your posts above are hopelessly, and probably deliberately, unclear.

[mock]

Murray Walker, on Jan 6 2007, 10:56 PM, said:

  Your posts above are hopelessly, and probably deliberately, unclear.

  Lets just agree to disagree, OK. You believe in casual sex, I don't. You condone the turning of women into sexual objects, I don't.  You believe multiple partners and experimenting before marriage, I don't. You think I'm a loser because of my views, I don't. You think women in the west get more respect, I don't.

Women in India don't have equality, yes, in the west they have more equality, yes, but are still far from being equal to men. Women in India have respect, yes, albeit a different kind of respect as you may view it. I don't even know what kind of respect you are talking about.......... In the west their is peer pressure among kids to lose their virginity, I don't believe this is the norm here. You believe in this, I don't.

In India, most people would touch their parents feet as a sign of respect even today, it's a cultural thing you wouldn't understand. In fact there are many things you wouldn't understand about Indian culture. Just the way I don't understand your culture very well. Just accept we are different. I don't believe casual sex, one night stands and getting laid as often as possible are OK.

Lets leave it at that shall we then you jolly old blighter ? Aye wot wot, sticky wicket and a rum do eh ?

[pabloh20]

mock, on Jan 9 2007, 03:32 PM, said:

  Lets just agree to disagree, OK. You believe in casual sex, I don't. You condone the turning of women into sexual objects, I don't.  You believe multiple partners and experimenting before marriage, I don't. You think I'm a loser because of my views, I don't. You think women in the west get more respect, I don't.

Women in India don't have equality, yes, in the west they have more equality, yes, but are still far from being equal to men. Women in India have respect, yes, albeit a different kind of respect as you may view it. I don't even know what kind of respect you are talking about.......... In the west their is peer pressure among kids to lose their virginity, I don't believe this is the norm here. You believe in this, I don't.

In India, most people would touch their parents feet as a sign of respect even today, it's a cultural thing you wouldn't understand. In fact there are many things you wouldn't understand about Indian culture. Just the way I don't understand your culture very well. Just accept we are different. I don't believe casual sex, one night stands and getting laid as often as possible are OK.

Lets leave it at that shall we then you jolly old blighter ? Aye wot wot, sticky wicket and a rum do eh ?

I think you have missed a slight, although important, point about Murray, Mock - he would like to have multiple partners (especially at the same time), he would like to lose his virginity, he would like to have sex before marriage!!     Just kidding, Murray!!  

Surely, the bit in bold is ok when you're married, however improbable!!  

[Max Mosley]

mock, on Jan 9 2007, 03:32 PM, said:

You think I'm a loser because of my views, I don't.

Lets leave it at that shall we then you jolly old blighter ? Aye wot wot, sticky wicket and a rum do eh ?

  I don't think you're a loser at all Mock.  On the contrary, I enjoy talking to you.  OK we can agree to disagree if you like, but the thing you have missed about me in reality is not what Paul suggests but that I find it hard to let things go.

[Max Mosley]

pabloh20, on Jan 9 2007, 04:26 PM, said:

I think you have missed a slight, although important, point about Murray, Mock - he would like to have multiple partners (especially at the same time), he would like to lose his virginity, he would like to have sex before marriage!!     Just kidding, Murray!!  

You know, I was in Liverpool today Paul, as it happens.  What a ****ing dump it is!

[Autumnpuma]

mock, on Jan 9 2007, 07:32 AM, said:

  Lets just agree to disagree, OK. You believe in casual sex, I don't. You condone the turning of women into sexual objects, I don't.  You believe multiple partners and experimenting before marriage, I don't. You think I'm a loser because of my views, I don't. You think women in the west get more respect, I don't.

Women in India don't have equality, yes, in the west they have more equality, yes, but are still far from being equal to men. Women in India have respect, yes, albeit a different kind of respect as you may view it. I don't even know what kind of respect you are talking about.......... In the west their is peer pressure among kids to lose their virginity, I don't believe this is the norm here. You believe in this, I don't.

In India, most people would touch their parents feet as a sign of respect even today, it's a cultural thing you wouldn't understand. In fact there are many things you wouldn't understand about Indian culture. Just the way I don't understand your culture very well. Just accept we are different. I don't believe casual sex, one night stands and getting laid as often as possible are OK.

Lets leave it at that shall we then you jolly old blighter ? Aye wot wot, sticky wicket and a rum do eh ?

From the pictures you've posted, your wife seems happy. I wonder how many 'equal' women can say that? Equality doesn't equate to happiness and surely happiness is the goal?

[Max Mosley]

I know.  Actually women have too many rights in the west.  An obedient woman is a happy one imho.  Men have been pussified for long enough!

[pabloh20]

Murray Walker, on Jan 9 2007, 09:59 PM, said:

You know, I was in Liverpool today Paul, as it happens.  What a ****ing dump it is!

Ahem........where are you from, again ??  

[mock]

pabloh20, on Jan 9 2007, 09:56 PM, said:

I think you have missed a slight, although important, point about Murray, Mock - he would like to have multiple partners (especially at the same time), he would like to lose his virginity, he would like to have sex before marriage!!     Just kidding, Murray!!  

Surely, the bit in bold is ok when you're married, however improbable!!