Hamilton Vs Vettel, See The Video

[maure 1]

Don't know if embedded video will work in the forums so there is a link too.

Last laps in Brazil:

(EDIT: Nope, embeded video doesn't work)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtQVcteKS_A

The claim is that Hamilton has been told to not fight with Vettel because they know Glock is too slow.

The video shows Hamilton trying to keep Vettel behind. It also shows Kubica unlapping himself and slowing down Vettel. When Kubica passes Hamilton, Hamilton makes a mistake and Vettel passes him. The video shows how Hamilton tries to catch up to Vettel and how Vettel slowly pulls away. It is easy to see that Hamilton is fighting for it by how he repeately loses control of his car and how close he tries to get to Vettel.

Have fun.

[mikathegreat2 2]

Who cares, Hamilton is champion!

[Max Mosley 2]

Inspection of the speed trap data will show that Hamilton had low downforce settings in anticipation of a dry race, so his car wasn't working well in those conditions, while we know the STR is surprisingly well suited to them (Bourdais qualifying 4th at Monza should show that). I don't dispute the fact that Vettel was quicker at that point of the race: 'the claim' was that Hamilton didn't expend every 'iota of skill' (your words) because in the end he was told Glock will be caught instead.

[Fed up 0]

It is very clear that Kubica's interference is what caused Lewis' off. Without the traffic Lewis was able to keep Vettel at bay with ease. It remains a mystery what Kubica was playing at there as he had nothing to gain by unlapping himself with 3 laps to go.

[freaky2 1]

It is very clear that Kubica's interference is what caused Lewis' off. Without the traffic Lewis was able to keep Vettel at bay with ease. It remains a mystery what Kubica was playing at there as he had nothing to gain by unlapping himself with 3 laps to go.

Yeah, never seen that before

Fuji, oh, yeah, that was it!

Oops, sorry about the above, I really didn't realize that Kubica needed more than passing those two, my head is in another place today. It did seem weird to me that he'd try to unlap himself from them, but we've seen weird stuff before, so I didn't care too much.

[Fed up 0]

LOSERS

Robert Kubica, BMW, 11th

Kubica should be hauled before the stewards and asked to explain why he decided to battle two drivers fighting for 5th and 6th places, and a World Championship, two laps before the end of the race. At that stage he had no chance of unlapping himself from the leader and so was destined to finish his race a lap early and outside the points. His move past Hamilton unsettled the Brit who then ran wide allowing Vettel through.

In the euphoria that will wash over the McLaren team this will be ignored, but it was a serious lapse of judgement from the Pole.

Given that Ayrton Senna once assaulted Eddie Irvine after a race at Suzuka for the Ulsterman daring to unlap himself (it had no consequence on the result), it would be interesting to see what the great man would have done to Kubica in the circumstances.

As he is someone who expressed his desire for Felipe Massa to win the World Championship then it smacks of interfering. Had it been Heidfeld then there would have been less trouble.Kubica should spend the first two races of 2009 watching the races and reflecting.

http://planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3265_4446462,00.html

[dribbler 6]

It should not have to be Robert KUbica's concern who is fifth, who is sixth, what it all means, who he should overtake and worry whether it 'unsettles' them. What utter bollocks. He's a racer. His instinct is to overtake. Did he barge anyone off? Were his moves lurid or ill considered? I don't care what his agenda was, he probably didn't have one other than to go as fast as he possibly could, just like he has been doing all year.

[maure 1]

The video shows Hamilton is unable to keep up. To blame his error on Kubica's right to unlap himself is lame. Hamilton did a similar thing on Alonso recently and none of you demanded a penalty, which is truly more pathetic than either Kubica's or Hamilton's uplapping.

And so, Hamilton was fighting and losing a WDC three laps from the flag. It is impossible to believe that he was told to ease up because he would be able to pass Glock two curves from the finish line.

The answer is, therefore, not that Hamilton was falling apart. No. No. The answer is (tells us Murray as he jumps from one justification to the next searching for something, anything, no matter how contradictory) that Hamilton didn't enjoy a superior car after all and that, without that advantage, even a Toro Rosso could ridicule him regardless of the fact that the championship was at stake. Hilarious.

Fair enough, Murray. Hamilton was not trying to win the WDC because he knew he didn't have what it took to win it.

Hamilton won the WDC and Vettel beat him. Do the math.

[Fed up 0]

Hamilton won the WDC and Vettel beat him. Do the math.

What is more important sherlock

[Rainmaster 7]

What is this nonsense? (As I understand it) Hamilton was told at the start of the last lap that he would catch Glock who was on the wrong tyres. Hamilton therefore knew he was racing Glock. He was able to keep Vettel at bay until Kubica interfered, Hamilton went wide (he said his car simply had no grip, it wasn't a case of him pushing too hard, I believe him). Hamilton couldn't slow down too much or he wouldn't have caught Glock, on the other hand he couldn't push massively hard, because he doesn't want to go off (whereas Vettel has much less to lose and a lot to gain).

I don't think Hamilton was told specifically 'don't fight with Vettel', but it was more a case of 'Glock is the target'. What was Kubica doing? I'm really not sure, at all, maybe he just wanted to get out of the way, he should have dropped back, but it doesn't really matter. Vettel is no doubt a gifted driver in the rain, but it's wrong to say 'Vettel beat Lewis' because they were effectively racing under different conditions (one needs to keep it on the road, the other is desperate to pass and help out his fellow Ferrari engine user to a WDC).

Anyway this is all quite like a broken pencil (credit to Paul!), because this thread is utter bollocks and maure is on top wind up form. Threads like this though, well, you can do much better Mr.Maure

[Max Mosley 2]

The video shows Hamilton is unable to keep up. To blame his error on Kubica's right to unlap himself is lame. Hamilton did a similar thing on Alonso recently and none of you demanded a penalty, which is truly more pathetic than either Kubica's or Hamilton's uplapping.

And so, Hamilton was fighting and losing a WDC three laps from the flag. It is impossible to believe that he was told to ease up because he would be able to pass Glock two curves from the finish line.

The answer is, therefore, not that Hamilton was falling apart. No. No. The answer is (tells us Murray as he jumps from one justification to the next searching for something, anything, no matter how contradictory) that Hamilton didn't enjoy a superior car after all and that, without that advantage, even a Toro Rosso could ridicule him regardless of the fact that the championship was at stake. Hilarious.

Fair enough, Murray. Hamilton was not trying to win the WDC because he knew he didn't have what it took to win it.

Hamilton won the WDC and Vettel beat him. Do the math.

Such long and pointless posts. Vettel was faster because he was in a car better suited to those conditions, and Hamilton never made a desperate attempt (as you suggest) to catch him again because the team knew Glock would be caught instead. It's perfectly simple.

[dribbler 6]

What is this nonsense? (As I understand it) Hamilton was told at the start of the last lap that he would catch Glock who was on the wrong tyres. Hamilton therefore knew he was racing Glock. He was able to keep Vettel at bay until Kubica interfered, Hamilton went wide (he said his car simply had no grip, it wasn't a case of him pushing too hard, I believe him). Hamilton couldn't slow down too much or he wouldn't have caught Glock, on the other hand he couldn't push massively hard, because he doesn't want to go off (whereas Vettel has much less to lose and a lot to gain).

I don't think Hamilton was told specifically 'don't fight with Vettel', but it was more a case of 'Glock is the target'. What was Kubica doing? I'm really not sure, at all, maybe he just wanted to get out of the way, he should have dropped back, but it doesn't really matter. Vettel is no doubt a gifted driver in the rain, but it's wrong to say 'Vettel beat Lewis' because they were effectively racing under different conditions (one needs to keep it on the road, the other is desperate to pass and help out his fellow Ferrari engine user to a WDC).

Anyway this is all quite like a broken pencil (credit to Paul!), because this thread is utter bollocks and maure is on top wind up form. Threads like this though, well, you can do much better Mr.Maure

Yeah, that.

[Fed up 0]

What is this nonsense? (As I understand it) Hamilton was told at the start of the last lap that he would catch Glock who was on the wrong tyres. Hamilton therefore knew he was racing Glock. He was able to keep Vettel at bay until Kubica interfered, Hamilton went wide (he said his car simply had no grip, it wasn't a case of him pushing too hard, I believe him). Hamilton couldn't slow down too much or he wouldn't have caught Glock, on the other hand he couldn't push massively hard, because he doesn't want to go off (whereas Vettel has much less to lose and a lot to gain).

I don't think Hamilton was told specifically 'don't fight with Vettel', but it was more a case of 'Glock is the target'. What was Kubica doing? I'm really not sure, at all, maybe he just wanted to get out of the way, he should have dropped back, but it doesn't really matter. Vettel is no doubt a gifted driver in the rain, but it's wrong to say 'Vettel beat Lewis' because they were effectively racing under different conditions (one needs to keep it on the road, the other is desperate to pass and help out his fellow Ferrari engine user to a WDC).

Anyway this is all quite like a broken pencil (credit to Paul!), because this thread is utter bollocks and maure is on top wind up form. Threads like this though, well, you can do much better Mr.Maure

Indeed and well said.

[maure 1]

Your denials are fun, as always. Keep them coming.

Here is what Hamilton had to say about this:

We could see pictures of Glock slowing down – did the team tell you that?

"They did, just before I got to him, they said you have to get past Glock. I was trying my hardest to get to Vettel but he was just as quick as me – if not quicker. It was the toughest races of my life – if not the toughest."

http://www.f1technical.net/news/11003

Go on, Murray, reinterpret for us what Hamilton means by "I was trying my hardest to get to Vettel"...

[maure 1]

What is this nonsense? (As I understand it) Hamilton was told at the start of the last lap that he would catch Glock who was on the wrong tyres. Hamilton therefore knew he was racing Glock. He was able to keep Vettel at bay until Kubica interfered, Hamilton went wide (he said his car simply had no grip, it wasn't a case of him pushing too hard, I believe him). Hamilton couldn't slow down too much or he wouldn't have caught Glock, on the other hand he couldn't push massively hard, because he doesn't want to go off (whereas Vettel has much less to lose and a lot to gain).

I don't think Hamilton was told specifically 'don't fight with Vettel', but it was more a case of 'Glock is the target'. What was Kubica doing? I'm really not sure, at all, maybe he just wanted to get out of the way, he should have dropped back, but it doesn't really matter. Vettel is no doubt a gifted driver in the rain, but it's wrong to say 'Vettel beat Lewis' because they were effectively racing under different conditions (one needs to keep it on the road, the other is desperate to pass and help out his fellow Ferrari engine user to a WDC).

Anyway this is all quite like a broken pencil (credit to Paul!), because this thread is utter bollocks and maure is on top wind up form. Threads like this though, well, you can do much better Mr.Maure

I can do no better than this: The facts. As always.

You are not as blind by heroworship or ego as these guys. Here is the video and here is what Hamilton had to say. I am confident that you can put the two together.

[Ayrton Senna 1]

Kubica was on intermediates and at that moment of the track it was by far the best set of tyres. Kubica's intermediates are also the reason why Hamilton passed Glock, but didn't re-lap Kubica (who was much behind Glock after pitting).

It's also pretty clear on the video that if Kubica slowed down anyone, it was Vettel and not Hamilton.

The very strong rain that started only a few seconds before Hamilton opened the last lap is what gave him the title, and it also shows that McLaren was never in control of the situation.

[Rainmaster 7]

I can do no better than this: The facts. As always.

You are not as blind by heroworship or ego as these guys. Here is the video and here is what Hamilton had to say. I am confident that you can put the two together.

Well I already knew all that, because I read various comments from Hammy, Mclaren and all the rest, and I watched the race. I tried to put these things together but I guess we didn't reach the same answer, what a shame

[Max Mosley 2]

Go on, Murray, reinterpret for us what Hamilton means by "I was trying my hardest to get to Vettel"...

No need, Maure. It's the same as I already said: in the end he was called off Vettel so never made any desperate attempt to get by. It's also pointless because Vettel had the better car for those conditions so your whole comparison breaks down.

[maure 1]

Well I already knew all that, because I read various comments from Hammy, Mclaren and all the rest, and I watched the race. I tried to put these things together but I guess we didn't reach the same answer, what a shame

In that case, you surprise me... and that is no little thing.

You say that Hamiton knew "at the start of the last lap that he would catch Glock" while Hamilton says that "They did, just before I got to him, they said you have to get past Glock"

Even if you were right, that would've been said two laps after Vettel and Hamilton had the face off that Hamilton lost.

Considering this, your whole narration of the events falls apart.

Kubica was on intermediates and at that moment of the track it was by far the best set of tyres. Kubica's intermediates are also the reason why Hamilton passed Glock, but didn't re-lap Kubica (who was much behind Glock after pitting).

It's also pretty clear on the video that if Kubica slowed down anyone, it was Vettel and not Hamilton.

The very strong rain that started only a few seconds before Hamilton opened the last lap is what gave him the title, and it also shows that McLaren was never in control of the situation.

Indeed, pure chance.

The point of this thread is to show, with _facts_, how Hamilton lost to Vettel thinking the WDC went with it. That is what has been denied by the now-running-in-every-direction-seeking-for-cover lewisterics.

Hamilton himself says that he gave it all and it was not enough. Vettel outraced him when it matter most to Hamilton. That's skill, that's craft, on Vettel's part. There is no amount of praise one can give Vettel for this.

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer 4]

I can do no better than this: The facts. As always.

You are not as blind by heroworship or ego as these guys. Here is the video and here is what Hamilton had to say. I am confident that you can put the two together.

Blah, blah, Hamilton, blah.

[maure 1]

No need, Maure. It's the same as I already said: in the end he was called off Vettel so never made any desperate attempt to get by. It's also pointless because Vettel had the better car for those conditions so your whole comparison breaks down.

Fun, fun, fun. Your ego is an uneding source of hilarity.

Hamilton said, not me, that he tried his "hardest to get to Vettel" (don't you look like a fool now) and only paid attention to Glock "just before [he] got to him". Until then, Hamilton couldn't match Vettel's skill.

As for " for those conditions", sure, buddy, sure, a McLaren is such a bad car in the rain that even a Toro Rosso can outrun it. You hold on to that... tight.

[maure 1]

Blah, blah, Hamilton, blah.

Echolalia boy returns... that's how bad things are turning out for the lewisterics.

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer 4]

Echolalia boy returns... that's how bad things are turning out for the lewisterics.

Returns, I've just been here all along.... Blah, Blah, Blah Boy

And as I have said a million billion times I'm not a Hammy fan particularly...

[Max Mosley 2]

Fun, fun, fun. Your ego is an uneding source of hilarity.

Hamilton said, not me, that he tried his "hardest to get to Vettel" (don't you look like a fool now) and only paid attention to Glock "just before [he] got to him". Until then, Hamilton couldn't match Vettel's skill.

As for " for those conditions", sure, buddy, sure, a McLaren is such a bad car in the rain that even a Toro Rosso can outrun it. You hold on to that... tight.

Glad my ego pleases you - even it's not so selfish that it wants all the fun for itself. Lewis was called off Vettel so clearly he did not use 'every iota of skill' available to him to race Vettel, which is what you claimed and I denied. Furthermore it's very possible for an STR to be quicker than a McLaren in certain conditions, especially when set up right. Of course I already know you won't accept this, so I'll just add this as another of your ridiculous predictions, along the lines of 'Kova will beat Lewis', and 'Alonso isn't very good'.

[maure 1]

Returns, I've just been here all along.... Blah, Blah, Blah Boy

And as I have said a million billion times I'm not a Hammy fan particularly...

He can talk!

Lewis was called off Vettel...

Not according to Hamilton.

... so clearly he did not use 'every iota of skill' available to him to race Vettel,

According to Hamilton, yes, he _did_ try his "hardest" and failed.

...which is what you claimed and I denied.

Which is what Hamilton says and you deny.

I am just a bystander here, an amused bystander.

Furthermore it's very possible for an STR to be quicker than a McLaren in certain conditions...

For example, in those "certain conditions" where you don't have a place to hide and anything you come up with, no matter how absurd, is better than to admit you are wrong.

For which, I'm grateful, btw. Bring it on.