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Kimi Returns - So What?

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:lol:

Well, now that he is part of the Poochie family, I guess I should also try to defend him.

Er...let's see...

This is great news, I'm 100% behind Bully Boullier on this. After all, why keep a guy like Petrov???? All he does is crash the car at every chance possible, cannot properly handle the press and drinks lots of vodka!!!

Kimi, on the other hand...

Wait...

:eusa_think:

:lol: I'm sure he aquired more handling skills with his stints in the other motorsports, should be beneficial :P

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You say that now, but you just wait. As soon as Kimi is in a race, you will be supporting him frantically above all others. Let's just hope he does better than Schumi did on his return :lol:

Anyway, I am glad Kimi is coming back. I know a lot of people didn't like his personality, but that's because the rest of you are all too idiotic to appreciate the elevated intelligence of true poker face, dry wit. Only Brad and I have the intellignece itnellgenci intllengenc brains required to appreciate this fine art :whistling:

Hopefully I won't have to do what Steve "did" :lol:

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I'm happy for Brad & Tommy, but not sure if I'm excited, nonchalant, depressed or still needing a sh!t at Kimi's return. It'll be interesting to see how he goes and if he fits in with the other kids in the yard. I hope he does well. It'll be nice to see a Kimi with fire in his belly and balls the size of Venezuela (hypothetically speaking).

I know it wont happen, but I loved JPM also. I know his reasons for leaving the sport (they didn't add the McDonalds in the pit garage he asked for as part of his contract) but one of the best motor racing moments ever was he and Kimi, Interlagos, racing out of the pit lane. Truly fantastic showmanship, sportsmanship and driver skill.

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I'm happy for Brad & Tommy, but not sure if I'm excited, nonchalant, depressed or still needing a sh!t at Kimi's return. It'll be interesting to see how he goes and if he fits in with the other kids in the yard. I hope he does well. It'll be nice to see a Kimi with fire in his belly and balls the size of Venezuela (hypothetically speaking).

I know it wont happen, but I loved JPM also. I know his reasons for leaving the sport (they didn't add the McDonalds in the pit garage he asked for as part of his contract) but one of the best motor racing moments ever was he and Kimi, Interlagos, racing out of the pit lane. Truly fantastic showmanship, sportsmanship and driver skill.

Just imagine JPM ending up at Williams again...yes, prolly won't happen :(

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My favorite "Kimi being Kimi" moment was when he got out-scored by Felipe Massa over their two-and-change seasons together.

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My favorite "Kimi being Kimi" moment was when he got out-scored by Felipe Massa over their two-and-change seasons together.

Just a shame Massa could'nt win the championship, which Kimi did btw, and was MY fav Kimi being Kimi moment.... I mean, how can u live being a champion for 20 seconds and still race afterwards. I'de be too embarrased to show my face anywhere. and it's still as funny as when I first saw it, the joy then sadness in the paddock when they realised he was'nt champion. Hilarious!!!!! :roll:

If u give a fck u middle finger to the lead driver and make the car understeery instead of oversteery, Sh#t like that happens :D

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How do you race again? Oh, I don't know, maybe Massa isn't a gutless sack empty of work ethic and full on ego. He has tremendous heart. He doesn't quit, unlike Räikkönen, who walks away because the team couldn't give him a car to compensate for his total lack of motivation and utter inability to get a team to rally behind him (and subsequently walks out on WRC when he fails at that because he was in way over his head thinking he could go tot he top level of that discipline, and then did the same thing in NASCAR where he was and is rightfully regarded as a total joke)...

...but oh Kimi gets drunk publicly so he's sooo funny ahahahahaha.

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I am not so sure Massa doesn't quit. Where was he this season? He never finished higher than 5th. Alonso took 10 podiums and a win. Now I don't doubt that Alonso is the best driver on the grid at the moment, but that still doesn't explain the performance gap with Massa. I think Alonso being the preferred driver had a big impact on Massa. When the team loved him, because Kimi wasn't the type of driver to galvanise a team, his performance was much stronger. So I don't think you can criticise Raikkonen so much for "giving up" without being critical of Massa too. I don't see where Massa's "work ethic" is based on those kind of results (of course, I'm not in the team so I don't know about their work ethic at all). So yeah, Kimi quit and walked away; Massa has quit and hangs on like a parasite occupying a seat he shouldn't have. What a guy whistling.gif

Massa is a nice guy, though, and Kimi is an evil evil man who does terrible things like getting drunk, in public no less :P

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I wonder if it's possible I make certain posts in certain ways about certain characters just to get a rise from certain posters.

I wonder why it never really works.

:(

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That said, I absolutely dislike Räikkönen. Terrible attitude. The only guys with terrible attitudes that I support are Montoya, because he's genuinely a great guy off the track, and Bourdais, because the old-time IRL fans get so ****ed off when Bourdais does well. Räikkönen has nothing redeeming like that about him. :P

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I think Alonso being the preferred driver had a big impact on Massa.

Where was the impact of that effect when Michael was ruling Ferrari? Massa was able to amtch him on occasion. I rather think that although Alonso's superiority has highlighted Massa's shortcomings, the impact of the Brawn spring has definitely taken its toll.

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Where was the impact of that effect when Michael was ruling Ferrari? Massa was able to amtch him on occasion. I rather think that although Alonso's superiority has highlighted Massa's shortcomings, the impact of the Brawn spring has definitely taken its toll.

I have to agree. He is certainly not the driver he was before the incident you mention. Ferrari know this too and I really do expect a last minute signing to that second seat for 2012, despite all the reassurances from the team to the contrary.

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I don't discount the accident's impact on his performance. But I think psychology is important too. Massa certainly seems like a "head" driver, more obviously so than many of the others, needing Smedley's constant assurances even when driving. I don't think that Schumi's reign was quite the same as Alonso's either, at least in relation to Massa. After all, Massa and Schumi had a strong friendship and Schumi completely owned the team when Massa arrived as a challenger (and was never really expected to beat him, even though the opportunity was there).

With Alonso it was different: Massa had the support (although certainly not the respect they had for MS or Alonso now) of the team before Alonso joined, because Raikks didn't push for it. Psychologically, it is very different to be a challenger who never had the throne (the Schumi years), then have the throne (arguably 2008 and 2009), and then lose it to a guy coming in and become a challenger again (now).

Although these are just theories rather than solid arguments here, and of course, Massa would never admit that the spring hurt his performance or that he's just not feeling as confident about his abilities because Alonso is in the other car.

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I don't discount the accident's impact on his performance. But I think psychology is important too. Massa certainly seems like a "head" driver, more obviously so than many of the others, needing Smedley's constant assurances even when driving. I don't think that Schumi's reign was quite the same as Alonso's either, at least in relation to Massa. After all, Massa and Schumi had a strong friendship and Schumi completely owned the team when Massa arrived as a challenger (and was never really expected to beat him, even though the opportunity was there).

With Alonso it was different: Massa had the support (although certainly not the respect they had for MS or Alonso now) of the team before Alonso joined, because Raikks didn't push for it. Psychologically, it is very different to be a challenger who never had the throne (the Schumi years), then have the throne (arguably 2008 and 2009), and then lose it to a guy coming in and become a challenger again (now).

Although these are just theories rather than solid arguments here, and of course, Massa would never admit that the spring hurt his performance or that he's just not feeling as confident about his abilities because Alonso is in the other car.

What he said.

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I don't discount the accident's impact on his performance. But I think psychology is important too. Massa certainly seems like a "head" driver, more obviously so than many of the others, needing Smedley's constant assurances even when driving. I don't think that Schumi's reign was quite the same as Alonso's either, at least in relation to Massa. After all, Massa and Schumi had a strong friendship and Schumi completely owned the team when Massa arrived as a challenger (and was never really expected to beat him, even though the opportunity was there).

With Alonso it was different: Massa had the support (although certainly not the respect they had for MS or Alonso now) of the team before Alonso joined, because Raikks didn't push for it. Psychologically, it is very different to be a challenger who never had the throne (the Schumi years), then have the throne (arguably 2008 and 2009), and then lose it to a guy coming in and become a challenger again (now).

Although these are just theories rather than solid arguments here, and of course, Massa would never admit that the spring hurt his performance or that he's just not feeling as confident about his abilities because Alonso is in the other car.

I agree with your theory about him being a 'head' driver. For this very reason I actually believe the effect of that accident to be deep rooted psychologically, as opposed to a physical effect. Of course, it could be a combination of the two.

There are many drivers who shrug off the effects of such accidents and come back sometimes stronger. The problem with Massa's accident was that he came close to death. I don't care what anyone says (the strogest of drivers included), incidents like these always have some sort of effect, no matter how small.I am sure this will be the case with Kubica, if he ever returns (although the effect on him will no doubt be more physical than psychological - poor lad).

Without sounding like a know-all psychologist, I think only now is Massa suffering from some sort of post traumatic stress. It often takes a long time.

I don't agree with Shaun though that he will be sidelined before the start of the season. That would be quite a shock.

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This is Gold

Rating Kimi's Technical abilities

By Editor on Monday, December 5, 2011

Because of his monosyllabic nature towards the media, many outsiders tend to believe that Kimi Raikkonen is incapable of communicating effectively with his engineers in developing a car and therefore is lacking in technical ability.

Raikkonen left Ferrari at the end of the 2009 season after the remaining year of his contract was bought out by the team, making way for Fernando Alonso to take his seat in 2010.

In fact, Ferrari team principal Stefano Domenicali justified his decision to replace Raikkonen with Alonso by contending that the Spanish driver is ‘better’ at development and motivating the team than the laconic Finn.

“Ferrari needs someone for the team similar to [Michael] Schumacher. [Raikkonen is] very fast, but also very closed. In a car that is capable of winning, he was and is perfect – but if the car needs to be developed and the team fired up, Alonso is better,” Domenicali told German publication Auto Bild.

But what do other respected members of the F1 paddock think about Raikkonen? F1Zone.net collected quotes from team principals, engineers, drivers and journalists regarding the Finn’s communicative and technical abilities.

Most recently, while taking part in this year’s Race of Champions in Düsseldorf, Jenson Button admitted that he was surprised when he heard the news but was supportive of Raikkonen’s return to F1.

Button is quoted by Autosport as saying, “From what I’ve heard from the engineers at McLaren, he knows what he’s doing in terms of engineering and setting up the car.

Adrian Newey, designer of the championship-winning Red Bull RB6 and RB7, had this to say about Raikkonen while they were both at McLaren: “Kimi and Mika [Hakkinen] have a similar way of reporting on a car’s behaviour. It’s economical in terms of vocabulary — they don’t waste words, let’s put it that way! — but the words they do use are very accurate. If Kimi makes a comment about the car, it’s worth taking notice of that comment, just as it was with Mika.

BBC’s pitlane reporter, Ted Kravitz revealed that long after Raikkonen had left McLaren, “McLaren engineers still talk with wonder about Raikkonen’s consistent lap times. He was so good, they say, because he would come back to the pits, say what was wrong, they would fix it and he would go out and go faster. Simple.

After Raikkonen clinched the 2007 world championship in the final round, former Ferrari technical director Ross Brawn, currently the team principal of Mercedes GP, said, “I was particularly pleased for Kimi because he struggled a little at the beginning to adapt to the new team, car and particularly the Bridgestone tyre characteristics. What impressed me was that he worked with his engineers, understood the issues, got on top of the situation and, importantly and in the style of Michael, he did it in a quiet way within the privacy of the team.

Chris Dyer, Raikkonen’s championship winning race engineer at Ferrari, has said in the past, “He gives a very clear feeling of what the car is doing and he seems very sensitive to changes we make to the car so really you can’t ask for more than that.

Raikkonen displayed some stunning performances in the latter half of the 2009 season after Ferrari halted development on the F60 to focus on the 2010 car.

According to F1 journalist James Allen, “His performances from July onwards in a car which Ferrari had stopped developing, were astonishing. Even the Ferrari engineers don’t fully understand how he managed to get some of the podiums he did based on the performance of his car, compared to the opposition.

Autosport editor Jonathan Noble also reported, “One team insider suggested that, looking at the data, Raikkonen has once again been doing things in the c#ckpit of a very difficult car that they can hardly believe. He is going beyond what, theoretically, the F60 would be capable of in normal hands as though the Finn’s last great act of defiance is to prove to his former bosses that they were wrong.

McLaren team principal Martin Whitmarsh has long been a big proponent of Raikkonen, having worked with the Finn at McLaren for five years from 2002-2006.

Whitmarsh tried to sign Raikkonen after he left Ferrari in 2009, saying, “He is not political, he is absolutely straightforward – what you see is what you get with Kimi – and on top of that everyone knows that he is a winning driver. I think he has been underestimated technically.

In an interview earlier this year with German website Motorsport-total.com, Whitmarsh also said, “I am a Kimi fan and I have never made a secret of it. I think he is an underrated driver – not underrated in that sense because everyone knows how fast he is, but I think people don’t realize how smart he is and how good the technical feedback he can give to a team.

By signing a former world champion, Lotus-Renault have signaled that they are serious about their future in the sport. Hopefully the partnership between Renault and Raikkonen, who has been so highly rated by the people who worked with him in the past, will be successful in the seasons ahead.

I can see the fear again in some people around here :naughty:

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I agree with your theory about him being a 'head' driver. For this very reason I actually believe the effect of that accident to be deep rooted psychologically, as opposed to a physical effect. Of course, it could be a combination of the two.

There are many drivers who shrug off the effects of such accidents and come back sometimes stronger. The problem with Massa's accident was that he came close to death. I don't care what anyone says (the strogest of drivers included), incidents like these always have some sort of effect, no matter how small.I am sure this will be the case with Kubica, if he ever returns (although the effect on him will no doubt be more physical than psychological - poor lad).

Without sounding like a know-all psychologist, I think only now is Massa suffering from some sort of post traumatic stress. It often takes a long time.

I don't agree with Shaun though that he will be sidelined before the start of the season. That would be quite a shock.

Sean. Like Connery, mush :) It's a feeling I have in me water, I have no hard evidence. It's certainly what I would do, for certain.

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Sean. Like Connery, mush :) It's a feeling I have in me water, I have no hard evidence. It's certainly what I would do, for certain.

Apologies. I have now sean the light.

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I agree with your theory about him being a 'head' driver. For this very reason I actually believe the effect of that accident to be deep rooted psychologically, as opposed to a physical effect. Of course, it could be a combination of the two.

There are many drivers who shrug off the effects of such accidents and come back sometimes stronger. The problem with Massa's accident was that he came close to death. I don't care what anyone says (the strogest of drivers included), incidents like these always have some sort of effect, no matter how small.I am sure this will be the case with Kubica, if he ever returns (although the effect on him will no doubt be more physical than psychological - poor lad).

Without sounding like a know-all psychologist, I think only now is Massa suffering from some sort of post traumatic stress. It often takes a long time.

I don't agree with Shaun though that he will be sidelined before the start of the season. That would be quite a shock.

I don't think Massa is suffering from his accident at all as he doesn't remember anything from it, I think he is suffering from the same problem Kimi had at Ferrari, I think they are building a car to suit Alonso's driving style and Massa's performance is being affected just like it happened when Ferrari built a car that suited Massa style instead of Kimi's and the fact that he is not the number one driver anymore, they can say give both driver the same equipment, that may be true but they don't get the same attention nor the same priority, IMO that is the reason of his poor season.

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This is turning into a "how bad is massa?" thread.

Oh well..........may as well join in:

He's overrated, overpaid - and in return he under-performs.........He should be a banker with that performance pay structure!

slightly back on topic - Kimi will do OK next year, but I can't see the Vettel/RBR steam train de-railing any time soon, so if Kimi owns his team mate, drives well and scores heavily - the best he can hope for is 2nd (like button this year).

still - nice to see him back - go Kimi you little Sh#t and drive the wheels off that thing!

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I don't think Massa is suffering from his accident at all as he doesn't remember anything from it, I think he is suffering from the same problem Kimi had at Ferrari, I think they are building a car to suit Alonso's driving style and Massa's performance is being affected just like it happened when Ferrari built a car that suited Massa style instead of Kimi's and the fact that he is not the number one driver anymore, they can say give both driver the same equipment, that may be true but they don't get the same attention nor the same priority, IMO that is the reason of his poor season.

Who says that any Ferrari was built to suit Alonso or Massa?

The days of cars being built to supposedly suit a particular driver style (whateve the hell that is and how it precisley translates down the CAD/CAM trail at design stage) are a thing of the past.

Luca's public Massa school report tells you everything you need to know; Massa simply must try harder. If he was driving a car that was purely to suit Alonso, they would put up and shut up.

The only thing I agree with is that Alonso is probably receiving better attention at Maranello (apart from the race engineer departmnent where Smedley practically tells Massa what gear to be in on every corner).

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Who says that any Ferrari was built to suit Alonso or Massa?

The days of cars being built to supposedly suit a particular driver style (whateve the hell that is and how it precisley translates down the CAD/CAM trail at design stage) are a thing of the past.

Luca's public Massa school report tells you everything you need to know; Massa simply must try harder. If he was driving a car that was purely to suit Alonso, they would put up and shut up.

The only thing I agree with is that Alonso is probably receiving better attention at Maranello (apart from the race engineer departmnent where Smedley practically tells Massa what gear to be in on every corner).

It's funny that you say that because just a few days ago a read that Renault said they built everything around Kubica a suddenly he was gone and that was part of the problems why their drivers couldn't perform this season, I prefer to believe them and there was also a news talking about how Ferrari's car in Kimi's last season came to fit Massa more than Kimi because of the little time Kimi spent in the factory, I still prefer to believe them I could dig out for those article but I will get in trouble with my wife if I don't finish with the vacuum before she gets here but maybe latter I can get some time to find them.

EDIT: Found one and this is what they said:"Don't forget, we built everything around Kubica because he was the main asset of this company and the guy disappears after one week, so my main foundation was broken."

This is Boullier speaking and here is the link in case you want to check it out for yourself

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It's funny that you say that because just a few days ago a read that Renault said they built everything around Kubica a suddenly he was gone and that was part of the problems why their drivers couldn't perform this season, I prefer to believe them and there was also a news talking about how Ferrari's car in Kimi's last season came to fit Massa more than Kimi because of the little time Kimi spent in the factory, I still prefer to believe them I could dig out for those article but I will get in trouble with my wife if I don't finish with the vacuum before she gets here but maybe latter I can get some time to find them.

EDIT: Found one and this is what they said:"Don't forget, we built everything around Kubica because he was the main asset of this company and the guy disappears after one week, so my main foundation was broken."

This is Boullier speaking and here is the link in case you want to check it out for yourself

Boullier has more excuses than Jenson had in his playboy phase. The team built a highly radical car which they couldn't maintain or develop successfully. I hear what Eric says but a better TP wouldn't be saying it. Kubica could get competitive pace out of a garden shed. The whole outfit needs grabbing by the scruff of the neck and shaking up. It would have in my day at the Regie, that's for sure. More's the pity they sold out and not to Dave Richards either. Kimi is in for a shock joining a midfield team and a young whipper-snapper like Grosjean snarling at his heels won't help at all. It is interesting to note that Heidfeld scored 34 points in the 8 races he finished as opposed to Bruno who managed 2 in the same span. Gerald Lopez has said publicly that the team have no time to develop young drivers. What's with the Grosjean caper then, not to mention the copious string of reserves they have in tow? I can't help thinking that a stronger TP like Berger, for instance, a far more conservative car and the recruitment of a seasoned points scorer like Nick, Rubens or even Kovi will take the new Lotus team a lot closer to their ultimate goal.

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