Lewis Hamilton

[Rainmaster 7]

First of all, I'm glad to see you're an RPS reader dear Andres.

Now, I think everybody made some good points since my last post here. All I can say is that I don't think you can look at it as trying to replace Hamilton. At the end of the day, Hamilton's, Vettel's and Alonso's don't come around all that often. In the event of your top driver leaving, all you can do is look around to who you think is the strongest available candidate. Now, us fans may disagree on the merits of Perez versus Maldonado/Kovi/Schumi/, but clearly Mclaren (and apparently Mercedes too) considered Perez the best available option after Lewis Hamilton. That doesn't mean he is a better prospect than those other drivers (only time will tell), it could just mean he was available and others weren't (unlikely since this is a top seat but - Maldonado may be tied to Williams, Schumi might be retiring, blah blah), it just means they think he was the best option based on everything they know.

[Quiet One 15]

First of all, I'm glad to see you're an RPS reader dear Andres.

Marry me

[Insider 0]

Pretty naive of Whitmarsh to hope that Hamilton won't give McLaren's data to Mercedes next year.

I agree with that. McLaren would find it nigh on impossible to prove that he had breached any confidentiality clause he may sign anyway. These are unusual time where an extra tenth is worth more than gold. If he doesn't win the next couple of races, I'd put Paffett in the car and send Lewis home. Ken Tyrell would have.

[KoolMonkey 0]

Yeah I agree, once it becomes impossible mathematically for Lewis to win the WDC, they should put him on gardening leave. If he can't be trusted while in the team like tweeting the telemetry of his car, then you think he's going to keep his word and not pass on what he knows to Merc?

[Quiet One 15]

Judging from Lewis fame at technical knowledge, you should expect HRT taking the fight up to the Maccas with whatever secrets De La Rosa took with him than the Mercs with whatever Hamilton can give them.

Honestly, who believes they could learn anything from Lewis that they cannot learn merely via Merc engineers on the engine team, pit crew friendly chat or merely by watching the cars rendering at each "Tooned" episode?

[Insider 0]

Judging from Lewis fame at technical knowledge, you should expect HRT taking the fight up to the Maccas with whatever secrets De La Rosa took with him than the Mercs with whatever Hamilton can give them.

Honestly, who believes they could learn anything from Lewis that they cannot learn merely via Merc engineers on the engine team, pit crew friendly chat or merely by watching the cars rendering at each "Tooned" episode?

They will not and cannot underestimate Lewis's capacity for retaining knowledge as you might. Hamilton will be aware of the darkest secrets of the Woking Tech Centre regarding the 2013 car development and even the most innocent morsel will be of interest to his new employers, believe me.

[Quiet One 15]

They will not and cannot underestimate Lewis's capacity for retaining knowledge as you might. Hamilton will be aware of the darkest secrets of the Woking Tech Centre regarding the 2013 car development and even the most innocent morsel will be of interest to his new employers, believe me.

You might have a point there.

Then again, I live thousands of miles away, know nothing about the actual issue, sit comfortably on an armchair, and am a consuetudinary Hamilton basher so I CAN and WILL underestimate his capacity.

I would even dare to say that it is my duty to underestimate the guy

(Actually, a few minutes after writing that post I found about the McLaren's twisting/bending/moving wing. And that is something that, if true or even workable, will be very interesting for his new employers, and something he might have something valuable to tell them about)

[pabloh20 1]

I would even dare to say that it is my duty to underestimate the guy

Well, as an Alonsomaniac, you may as well carry on the tradition Alonso started in 2007..........................

I just high-fived myself on that one

[Quiet One 15]

Well, as an Alonsomaniac, you may as well carry on the tradition Alonso started in 2007..........................

I just high-fived myself on that one

And that's supposed to be funny? Don't make me laugh!!

Wait...if you make me laugh then it IS funny....so...errr....uhmmmm....

Source?

[BradSpeedMan 6]

U 2 have been going at each other for a while now...

something's gotta give

[KoolMonkey 0]

All it takes is an idea for an innovation to come to fruition. How to make it so, well the engineers sort that out. But an idea can sometimes be worth just as much as the actual details on how to make it happen.

Someone can change teams, and take with him that knowledge that his old team is working on a double diffuser, F-duct, blown diffuser etc. The new guys might have never thought of these kinds of things, but after finding out about these devices from the new employee are generally smart enough to then get to work and figure out how it works, and adapt it to their car.

Ideas are just as important and the blueprints and technical data. Not all teams can run with an idea and make it work, but generally the big money teams can and as such, that old saying of loose lips sinks ships is still as important today as well, when they sunk ships haha

[pabloh20 1]

And that's supposed to be funny? Don't make me laugh!!

Wait...if you make me laugh then it IS funny....so...errr....uhmmmm....

Source?

HP ?

U 2 have been going at each other for a while now...

something's gotta give

That's what I said to him at the weekend

[pabloh20 1]

All it takes is an idea for an innovation to come to fruition. How to make it so, well the engineers sort that out. But an idea can sometimes be worth just as much as the actual details on how to make it happen.

Someone can change teams, and take with him that knowledge that his old team is working on a double diffuser, F-duct, blown diffuser etc. The new guys might have never thought of these kinds of things, but after finding out about these devices from the new employee are generally smart enough to then get to work and figure out how it works, and adapt it to their car.

Ideas are just as important and the blueprints and technical data. Not all teams can run with an idea and make it work, but generally the big money teams can and as such, that old saying of loose lips sinks ships is still as important today as well, when they sunk ships haha

Yep, this is true. From acorns mighty oaks grow, as the saying goes. It sometimes needs just the planting of the idea.

Of course if I was McLaren, I would possibly be feeding Lewis some erroneous data along the way. Yeah, Lewis, we have just made a prototype of a quadruple drs wing.........................

[Quiet One 15]

They will not and cannot underestimate Lewis's capacity for retaining knowledge as you might. Hamilton will be aware of the darkest secrets of the Woking Tech Centre regarding the 2013 car development and even the most innocent morsel will be of interest to his new employers, believe me.

Lewis might have been reading our little exchange, from what he said in the press conference:

Q: [...] do you feel calmer now?

A: Absolutely [...] I know I'm leaving a vey, very good for this guy (Perez) to step into.

SP: Thank you...

A: Yeah. Trust me, it will be a good car next year as well. I know. I know exactly what's going on next year in your car.

Even for a slightly less paranoid than average guy like me that message seemed to be aimed not just at Sergio, right?

[Massa 0]

Even for a slightly less paranoid than average guy like me that message seemed to be aimed not just at Sergio, right?

Yeah, definitely reads like a response to Whitmarsh hoping he doesn't share information. I love it. Hamilton and Mercedes picking it up in 2013 could be a lot of fun.

[Guest]

By not demanding an answer way earlier in the season, McLaren have shot themselves in the foot........again!! (just like when kimi left). Their best shot at WDC is still with Lewis, but he's obviously going to be frozen out of some areas now. And I'm not sure they would like the kudos of WDC going to another team (and taking his #1 sticker with him to put on the front of the Merc).

FFS, They even had their super-duper car unveiling in Paris overshadowed by the Lewis news. (don't get me started on their wasted super-duper-car project.........or as I call it "Ron's Folly")

They may as well put him on garden leave until the end of his contract.......even the PR obligations now seem very hollow.

All this is great news for Alonso fans, as his only real challenge has been snuffed out.

I honestly don't think McLaren know what they've done........next year they'll be just what they are happiest being. A plucky Brit , that never quites get there, If Whitmarsh and Dennis had upper lips any stiffer, they'd be woodpeckers.........instead, they're just peckers!

[Massa 0]

I have a hard time seeing McLaren being bothered by WDCs. They want to win the WCC and they really still could with the car that they have. Only 36 off from Red Bull. 6 points per race on them can definitely be done. That's the focus. That should always be the focus; that's what pays.

Is losing Hamilton tough? Yeah. But Hamilton made up his mind and it has the potential to be good for McLaren, too, since they still haven't gotten it right and won the WCC with a Hamilton-led team. I think that Hamilton being fired up and having something to prove, and Ross Brawn having an elite driver, are both very good things for the sport. It's also something that could reinvigorate Mercedes/AMG's interest in F1, and ultimately, you do need manufactures and independents alike to keep this thing going. I'm so glad the move happened.

[Guest]

I'm not sure WCC bring in the sponsors with their checkbooks - it's the glamour of a WDC that grabs all the headlines(and therefore all the potential advertising revenue). If McLlaren win the WCC and Alonso wins the WDC - which image do you think Santander will want to user to promote their brand globally to demonstrate their successful relationship? (especially as LH won't be available for cardboard cutouts in their british banks next year)

I think everyone has underestimated the Merc this year. It's been driven by , a now acknowledged has-been, and a pretty-boy that should have been slaughtering Schumi. With a good/quick driver that thing could/should have won more than one race this year.

LH is capable of extracting as much from a car as Alonso is.......and look at the dog that Alonso had to start off with this year.

LH for WDC 2013.........must be worth a punt.

and all this coming from an unashamed Kimi fan!!!!

[LabradoRacer 2]

Lewis does bring a lot to the table, but I doubt it if he can do anything of note if Mercedes is still unable to solve its long-running tyre issues or high-speed corner issues.

[Massa 0]

Hmm...there's definitely more marketing potential with a driver, true. But to win the WCC, McLaren have to win races, and winning races means getting TV exposure. I don't think a sponsor cares if it's Hamilton or Button's car on TV, as long as one of them is. Above all, there's image. Hamilton's image and McLaren's image differ and that just creates brand confusion with sponsors. I actually think Santander would be more comfortable with McLaren and Button than with Hamilton. Hamilton has a "riskier," younger, fresher, perhaps more...unpredictable or volatile image. Banks don't like to be associated with risk (of course you could argue why sponsor auto racing at all, and if you did, you'd be making a good argument). McLaren and Button are clean and safe and professional and top-notch. Sounds bank-ish to me.

But mostly I was just thinking short-term: the WCC determines TV revenue payouts to the teams.

[Rainmaster 7]

Lewis might have been reading our little exchange, from what he said in the press conference:

Even for a slightly less paranoid than average guy like me that message seemed to be aimed not just at Sergio, right?

I can imagine a smile on Lewis' face when he said that, he may have just been joking. Anyway, on the whole "information sharing" I still don't think it's that significant. I'd be surprised if a driver ever brought knowledge to a team which made the difference between winning and losing. The biggest effect a driver can have on a team to my mind is the psychological, motivational effect of knowing the driver is maximising the car in every session. That's what Alonso and Hamilton can bring more than any other driver at the moment.

By not demanding an answer way earlier in the season, McLaren have shot themselves in the foot........again!! (just like when kimi left). Their best shot at WDC is still with Lewis, but he's obviously going to be frozen out of some areas now. And I'm not sure they would like the kudos of WDC going to another team (and taking his #1 sticker with him to put on the front of the Merc).

FFS, They even had their super-duper car unveiling in Paris overshadowed by the Lewis news. (don't get me started on their wasted super-duper-car project.........or as I call it "Ron's Folly")

They may as well put him on garden leave until the end of his contract.......even the PR obligations now seem very hollow.

All this is great news for Alonso fans, as his only real challenge has been snuffed out.

I honestly don't think McLaren know what they've done........next year they'll be just what they are happiest being. A plucky Brit , that never quites get there, If Whitmarsh and Dennis had upper lips any stiffer, they'd be woodpeckers.........instead, they're just peckers!

What they've done? I don't think it was a unilateral decision. Hamilton said Mclaren made him an equal offer to Mercedes, and when he had decided and told Whitmarsh, Whitmarsh said "what more could we have done"? Lewis said the answer was "nothing". He wanted a new challenge.

Hmm...there's definitely more marketing potential with a driver, true. But to win the WCC, McLaren have to win races, and winning races means getting TV exposure. I don't think a sponsor cares if it's Hamilton or Button's car on TV, as long as one of them is. Above all, there's image. Hamilton's image and McLaren's image differ and that just creates brand confusion with sponsors. I actually think Santander would be more comfortable with McLaren and Button than with Hamilton. Hamilton has a "riskier," younger, fresher, perhaps more...unpredictable or volatile image. Banks don't like to be associated with risk (of course you could argue why sponsor auto racing at all, and if you did, you'd be making a good argument). McLaren and Button are clean and safe and professional and top-notch. Sounds bank-ish to me.

But mostly I was just thinking short-term: the WCC determines TV revenue payouts to the teams.

I think the team does ultimately care more about the WDC. Whitmarsh said as much after the Singapore race iirc, that it's the one people remember more, etc. Obviously, that doesn't mean they don't care quite a bit about the WCC too, especially since they haven't won it for so long and it does have a lot of financial benefits too.

[Guest]

McLaren and Button are clean and safe

Exactly!..........not really the glamour that F1 thrives and survives on.

F1 is hollywood on 4 wheels, that's the only reason it's even vaguely attractive to a none-petrol-heads.(and therefore "sellable")

Ironically, McLaren have a great history of exciting drivers (and prost ), yet still they persist with this boring, white, guardian reading, middle class image. That's why no-one wants to buy their super-duper cars, and that's why they'll become the next williams.

As a sidenote, how demotivated mus Jens be feeling right now, Whitmarsh has already said they offered Lewis the moon to stay, AND that he believes that Perez could win on his debut. Why doesn't he just be open and say that Jens is a decent #2 driver? What a prick, to have a ceo do and say anything else than Jens is the new messiah is coporate (and sporting) suicide. R.I.P. MW!

[Massa 0]

I can't speak for the world, but clean and safe sells in the United States. People here buy Hondas and Toyotas. People here eat Cheerios and Corn Flakes. Etc, etc. Some brands thrive on a clean and safe image, and while that does seem totally out of line with F1 and auto racing, a lot are trying to the point there must be some level of success for "boring" brands to be involved. Most people are inherently dull (myself included) and like inherently dull things (myself included), and some sponsors are trying to mold a non-F1 image within F1 to benefit from F1's exposure but while targeting an audience that's not exactly F1 in attitude.

Though personally, I find nothing uninteresting about a Formula One constructor and their cars, and nothing uninteresting about the guys who drive them or will drive them.

That said, the image McLaren doesn't want to project? The image of a team that never closes the deal and wins things, and the image of a team that must be so unstable and mismanaged for Hamilton to get so upset sometimes and for relationships to be so poor. So while losing Hamilton takes away some of the "aggressive" image, it does both harmonize their image to one unifying thing which may not personally appeal to everyone and every brand, and it gets rid of some of the more negative portrayals that have to surround them when you hear about this spats between Hamilton and the team (i.e. datagate).

I wouldn't be surprised if McLaren take the WCC in 2013, personally. Consistency is huge and Button and Pérez can both be that with the right car. Ferrari are out of it from the onset if Massa's still there, so you have one team beaten.

RE: George. That's interesting and surprising, and disheartening to DOF and myself.

[Quiet One 15]

I can't speak for the world, but clean and safe sells in the United States. People here buy Hondas and Toyotas. People here eat Cheerios and Corn Flakes. Etc, etc. Some brands thrive on a clean and safe image, and while that does seem totally out of line with F1 and auto racing, a lot are trying to the point there must be some level of success for "boring" brands to be involved. Most people are inherently dull (myself included) and like inherently dull things (myself included), and some sponsors are trying to mold a non-F1 image within F1 to benefit from F1's exposure but while targeting an audience that's not exactly F1 in attitude.

Though personally, I find nothing uninteresting about a Formula One constructor and their cars, and nothing uninteresting about the guys who drive them or will drive them.

That said, the image McLaren doesn't want to project? The image of a team that never closes the deal and wins things, and the image of a team that must be so unstable and mismanaged for Hamilton to get so upset sometimes and for relationships to be so poor. So while losing Hamilton takes away some of the "aggressive" image, it does both harmonize their image to one unifying thing which may not personally appeal to everyone and every brand, and it gets rid of some of the more negative portrayals that have to surround them when you hear about this spats between Hamilton and the team (i.e. datagate).

I wouldn't be surprised if McLaren take the WCC in 2013, personally. Consistency is huge and Button and Pérez can both be that with the right car. Ferrari are out of it from the onset if Massa's still there, so you have one team beaten.

RE: George. That's interesting and surprising, and disheartening to DOF and myself.

Ppl don't give a Sh#t about "branding association" except on a very tenuous sense. The same sense that makes me think of red haired, frecklish people when I hear the name "Ruben" just because the first Ruben I knew was like that, despite the fact that no other Ruben I knew was even red haired.

Tell me, do you feel the thrill of extreme sports every time you see a Red Bull can? Do you wanna taste it and feel like lifting a finger to the cameras?

I have my savings in a Citibank account. Citibank has been the symbol of quick and dirty businesses and aggressive takeovers during the ultra liberal neocon 90s which is taboo by my slightly left of centre views. Santander sponsors my favorite driver and they are EVERYWHERE. There's even a Santander branch less than two blocks away from my work which is mightly convenient. Yet I haven't switched my savings over tto Santander and probably never will. Why? Because I don't give a damn about Alonso's sponsorship and Santander's ultra winning image to be bothered enough as to go and spent a couple of hours switching bank accounts.

it might even be convenient from my point of view because I would get better offers or something like that...I DON'T CARE!

I LOVE Coca Cola. But their "brand image" is appalling at best and their commercials are usually boring and "family oriented". Pepsi is more about things a single guy can relate to: success, flirting, whatever.

I still drink Coca Cola because Pepsi tastes like licking a wet dog. (Not that I tried...much)

Marketing is good to make a brand known. But all the overanalyzing on whether some commercial or slogan will make you think that certain brand has those characteristis is only for the fun and profit of the marketing depts and marketting companies involveed. Everybody else goes for the actual product and the very little else.

(Awaits for Brad's fuming reply )

[Guest]

Massa, Please be very careful...........we are almost stepping into the "emperor's new clothes" here!

Remove the glamour, the danger and the sexiness..........and we are left with "cars going around a track"

Why does F1 have such a global following ?.........not for the the WCC that's for sure.

The ONLY constructor that has passionate fans is Ferrari, and that's because they're seen as SEXY.

I work for Shell and once asked a very senior bod, why the Ferrari partnership? His answer - SEX SELLS, to paraphrase him ' when we're trying to seal a deal, it's nice to send a Kasak official to Marinello, where he'll be met by a beautiful pr assistant wearing a tight skirt, showing him the famous cars.

Take the sex out of F1 and you're left with a boring engineering weekend! I for one would go back to the porn channel!