Lewis Is A Loser

[Emmcee 0]

Ahhh so good to see lol.

[Insider 0]

I support Lewis on this. Engines are gold in this season and it is pointless running one into the ground when the car is totally uncompetitive. It was definitely a question that needed to be asked. Nico's driving was desperate not deliberate, I believe. A bill for €300,000 won't cut it - that's peanuts to Rosberg. If it had been any other two drivers there would be a loss of points, grid penalty etc. Why don't the stewards get onto it?

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer 4]

I'm not trying to single you out, but this requires a reply.

It's clear you are not a Lewis fan as you started this thread with the title that it has. Funnily enough I am not a Lewis fan either and don't like his petulant whinging when he does it.

HOWEVER.... in this case, I don't see any grounds to bash Lewis. You say, as a racer he should race from 16th up; what if there was a safety car? etc. So he does race the entire race distance in a wounded car, wastes part of the life in that engine, meaning he later will have to suffer a 10 place penalty and race from outside of the top ten again.

If he knew he was 16th, in a wounded car, low chance of getting points and could avoid having to do the charge from the back of the grid twice, of course he would ask the question - only a numpty wouldn't.

Lewis has a history of racing from the back - in normal circumstances he does it without any issues. Why should Spa be any different unless engines played a role. He wants the championship badly and I think you are just falling for the media hype if you honestly believe he was that petulant that he would park up and walk away cos he was in a huff (he certainly did not sound that way). As I said originally - Bollocks!!!

I find it interesting that FOM are busy stoking the fires on this one to create more "interest" by broadcasting messages and reinforcing the "war" between the drivers. I bet my underpants that these sort of conversations have been and will be taking place a lot over the next few races with many drivers (but most probably won't get broadcast).

[KoolMonkey 0]

Grabthaw, if a driver does not want to finish a race because he will only come 16th, then he should quit racing. It's not a guarantee he will finish that low either. Anything can happen.

If it was Kimi, people would pounce on him and say he'd lost motivation and should leave F1 or be replaced. I can't recall any driver asking so many times to retire from a race when all he had damage wise was bodywork and under tray damage. He didn't have transmission issues or overheating, we all know that.

I'm happy to agree to disagree on this one. I've never been a Lewis fan, but I have accepted at times he's a good racer too. But this goes beyond anything of that nature. It was wrong of him to carry on the way he has, and he's been doing since Monaco. Maybe Nicole has finally dumped his sorry a## for good, who knows, but how can anything say he's carried himself in a positive light, been a good brand ambassador and all that? You can't just right one one occasion with Lewis, the pattern is so clear now. He's a loser in my view, and needs to get his mind into check, or have a team boss who will sort him out.

[Emmcee 0]

Grabthaw, if a driver does not want to finish a race because he will only come 16th, then he should quit racing. It's not a guarantee he will finish that low either. Anything can happen.

If it was Kimi, people would pounce on him and say he'd lost motivation and should leave F1 or be replaced. I can't recall any driver asking so many times to retire from a race when all he had damage wise was bodywork and under tray damage. He didn't have transmission issues or overheating, we all know that.

I'm happy to agree to disagree on this one. I've never been a Lewis fan, but I have accepted at times he's a good racer too. But this goes beyond anything of that nature. It was wrong of him to carry on the way he has, and he's been doing since Monaco. Maybe Nicole has finally dumped his sorry a## for good, who knows, but how can anything say he's carried himself in a positive light, been a good brand ambassador and all that? You can't just right one one occasion with Lewis, the pattern is so clear now. He's a loser in my view, and needs to get his mind into check, or have a team boss who will sort him out.

Yep absolutly, even about kimi as I would honestly "pounce"'on kimi and you know I would, just like iam hammering lewis for it.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

I just think that, as usual, everyone is being far too harsh on Lewis.

Personally I never thought for a second that he's having a tantrum again or being immature or whatever. He was a minute behind and was barely making up ground, and he was already 1 engine down on Nico. For once look at Lewis's positives, because there are many, and notice that well done to him for having that thought whilst in the middle of a race.
He can't afford another retirement this year, and he's already 1 engine down on his team-mate, and he wasn't making up enough ground.
Hoping for a safety car would be a huge gamble, the team wanted to take that gamble, but it didn't pay off.

In the post-race analysis NONE of the pundits made even a slight indication that Lewis has the wrong attitude or shouldn't have asked to save the engine, and yet I should've known that there'd be a line of people on the internet waiting to criticise him for anything they can possibly construe into a fault.

Nico Rosberg knows damn well he can't race Lewis in a straight fight and win. A view echoed by DC and BBC's chief f1 writer. So he held his line forcing Lewis to leave space. The flaw there being that why the hell should Lewis move over......Rosberg drove like an amateur, is now rightfully being chastised by the press and his own bosses, and his stupidity robbed us of what should've been a great duel.

[Emmcee 0]

Nico prooved at Canada he can not only out race lewis but out smart him to. Nico IMO has just improved, I used to Beleive Lewis was out right faster but iam not to sure now.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

Nico prooved at Canada he can not only out race lewis but out smart him to. Nico IMO has just improved, I used to Beleive Lewis was out right faster but iam not to sure now.

At Canada Lewis retired and Nico slowed with brake problems so I don't understand the example...(I know you think Lewis could've driven through the issue, although I still dont see much evidence for that)

I'm talking a straight fight between the 2, which is what I thought we were in for, similar to Bahrain. No mechanical issues, crashes, penalties etc. Lewis was ahead and I reckon he would've won the Belgian GP. Nico drove like a moron and his own bosses are seething, labelling it unacceptable. I'm stunned to come online today and see dozens of posts criticising the wrong guy!

I do agree that Nico has improved, he definitely has. And he did do a great lap to get pole. But in wheel to wheel combat, Lewis is still top IMO (and DC's!)

[Emmcee 0]

Nico prooved in Canada he can pace himself if he has to and drive past the issue, lewis is flat chat all the time and pays the price for it, he seems like he can't take it easy and "nurse" a car.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

We talked about this before though, and unless my memory has deleted the bit where you proved me wrong, you and Andy had no evidence at all other than Canada which even in itself is very debatable because you guys had nothing other than the fact Nico finished the race, and even then you/we don't know for sure whether their issues that race were identical.

Anyway that's all irrelevant (for now!), I'm talking about a race-long fight. Nico has not won one of those yet and I was really hoping we were going to get such a fight in Spa until Nico ruined it.

Nico may prove he can drive through a brake issue in Canada but he's also shown his racecraft is abysmal

[Jem of the Shire 0]

And in Spa Lewis had a damaged floor which affects the aero, and he drove around that issue until they retired the car, so wouldn't that disprove your point (a bit)? In Hungary he drove with a missing endplate. These are the only examples I can remember, but since 2007 there's bound to be a load more.

[Emmcee 0]

And in Spa Lewis had a damaged floor which affects the aero, and he drove around that issue until they retired the car, so wouldn't that disprove your point (a bit)? In Hungary he drove with a missing endplate. These are the only examples I can remember, but since 2007 there's bound to be a load more.

Not really because the issue in Canada didnt really affect nicos pace, infact towards the end of the race he was almost as quick as ricciardo. So he not only found a way to nurse the car, he did so so well that he had enough brakes at the end to make a run.

[Quiet One 15]

I agree with Jem, actually.

I think Rosberg has impresed me lots regarding his personality (he speaks in fluent Spanish ) but as a driver he has gone backwards. When he was that anonymous driver with girlish looks, he managed to quietly make some solid performances. Now they have a car that is a thousand times better than any RBR ever built, minus the reliability, and yet Nico hardly ever delivered one of those Vettel-like performances cruising to the flag. He goes off track in every single race, he is beating one of Lewis favorite records ("most flatspotted tires") and, on top of that, is trying to be a "samurai" a la Alonso, and ending up looking more like a Massa. The guy can be quick and has talent (although I am still to see him doing anything Jenson Button cannot do, for example) and it's ruining it with all this petty fight against Lewis. Granted, he probably would be worse in the Championship, but he could have handled all this a lot smarter.

As for Lewis. He is obviously better than Nico. But he is too fragile, mentally speaking. And no, all his comebacks from the back of the grid and all his wins do not change the fact that he could have at least 30% more wins and probably half of the comebacks had he kept a cool head. He is moody, and puts himself in a role of a warrior-that-never-surrenders which clearly doesn't fit him, and then go sulking around when reality bites.

This race was a good example. Is it good to save the engine? Yes. Was he right to suggest so? Yes. But once the team tell him that the car is OK and keep racing, He should have just shut up and get on with the race. Yet, he kept demanding that the car was retired for 30 laps. That's not a conscious driver trying to save the engine, that's a disheartened guy giving up. Funnily enough, I think that had he qualified in the back due to something like this he would have fought all the way trhough the end in the race. What crushed him was going from hero to zero in a couple of laps.

My 2 cents.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

But how do you know Lewis had the identical problem? As far as I'm aware, you/we don't, in which case your argument is invalid (and I mean that in the politest way possible of course

[Emmcee 0]

They said he had the exact same issue.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

I don't remember that? If I'm wrong I'm wrong - but I'm yet to see the evidence

[Jem of the Shire 0]

The first report I've just read says that Lewis retired with brake problems on lap 48, whilst Nico had "problems with his kinetic motor generator unit (MGU-K), which caused his car to have less power than everyone else" - suggesting they had entirely different problems.

Have just read another report which says both Mercs experienced sudden loss of power, but then Lewis later developed 'chronic brake failure', which Nico did not

[Emmcee 0]

I don't remember that? If I'm wrong I'm wrong - but I'm yet to see the evidence

Right here, read towards the end of the third paragraph.

http://m.thespec.com/living-story/4570977-canadian-grand-prix-to-stay-in-montreal-for-next-10-years-and-weekend-winners/

[Jem of the Shire 0]

I know this may seem all too convenient, but that link doesn't seem to work!

[Quiet One 15]

I still don't get what's the reasoning behind "both cars had the same issue with brakes. one of them has to retire. Ergo, nothing else except the driver might have caused it".

There are thousands of other factors that could have caused the difference. Geez, as far as we know, they could have had the exact same problem, the exact same brakes from the exact same manufacturing lot and the exact same driving and still one of them could break and the other won't.

So, in itself, it doesn't add much weight to the "Lewis is a carbreaker" theory.

[Medilloni 6]

Re the 'identical brake problem'...

...this was due to a combination of the electrical gubbins and smaller rear discs ('cos the electrical gubbins provides some braking for the rear wheels, allowing for fitting smaller discs)... the problem with Lewis was made worse 'cos he likes more rear brake bias (making the car pointy, more turn-in), in other words, he's putting more heat through the rear brakes. Rosberg likes more front brake bias compared to Lewis, so the problem wouldn't be quite as bad as Lewis's by the time the team realised there was a rear end barbecue going on - he was just in time to put more bias to the front and escape the same fate as the other fated one. Hope that makes sense ;-)

Is Lew a car breaker? Imo I don't think so, but in this case the problem (probably before it was known) would be a bigger pain in the arse for Lewis than for Rosbergery.

[BrisbaneAndy 0]

A lot of opinions here. Of course there is no evidence, none of us truly knows what goes in within the teams. We only know what we see on TV and read in the media.

That link worked for me. It says they had the same problem.

Regarding evidence, though, a report in the media is generally just one person's opinion, based generally on little fact and designed to attract attention, so what we read is not necessarily the truth. D'oh.

I read that Hamilton is obviously the better driver? Not obvious at all. There are many aspects to being a driver and Rosberg is developing, last weekend notwithstanding.

He has out qualified Hamilton seven times in a row or is it eight? Four poles in a row, leading on points.

I know there are reasons, but the results do not support the claim that Hamilton is the better driver.

I guess my point is that this is mostly opinion. Asking for evidence is illogical, if every comment must be supported by factual evidence it will be very quiet around here. Nothing wrong with opinion as long as there is some basis, but opinion and fact should not be confused.

My opinion on Hamilton being hard on the car is that he attacks the kerbs more aggressively. The evidence I have to support this opinion are my eyes. He has had a lot more car problems and failures than Rosberg. That is not my opinion, that is the truth. I see a causal link between the two, that is my opinion.

Or does he have more failures due to bad luck? Even Hamilton no longer believes that.

One point, Hamilton prefers more rear brake bias because it makes the car more pointy? Hmmm..... forward bias will encourage oversteer on turn in, which Hamilton is said to prefer. This occurs because the load on the rear tyres is reduced, reducing grip, increasing rear tyre slip angles. Rearward bias will encourage understeer, which is, loosely, a reluctance to turn in.

[Emmcee 0]

Re the 'identical brake problem'...

...this was due to a combination of the electrical gubbins and smaller rear discs ('cos the electrical gubbins provides some braking for the rear wheels, allowing for fitting smaller discs)... the problem with Lewis was made worse 'cos he likes more rear brake bias (making the car pointy, more turn-in), in other words, he's putting more heat through the rear brakes. Rosberg likes more front brake bias compared to Lewis, so the problem wouldn't be quite as bad as Lewis's by the time the team realised there was a rear end barbecue going on - he was just in time to put more bias to the front and escape the same fate as the other fated one. Hope that makes sense ;-)

Is Lew a car breaker? Imo I don't think so, but in this case the problem (probably before it was known) would be a bigger pain in the arse for Lewis than for Rosbergery.

Boom!!! That's it.

[Emmcee 0]

A lot of opinions here. Of course there is no evidence, none of us truly knows what goes in within the teams. We only know what we see on TV and read in the media.

That link worked for me. It says they had the same problem.

Regarding evidence, though, a report in the media is generally just one person's opinion, based generally on little fact and designed to attract attention, so what we read is not necessarily the truth. D'oh.

I read that Hamilton is obviously the better driver? Not obvious at all. There are many aspects to being a driver and Rosberg is developing, last weekend notwithstanding.

He has out qualified Hamilton seven times in a row or is it eight? Four poles in a row, leading on points.

I know there are reasons, but the results do not support the claim that Hamilton is the better driver.

I guess my point is that this is mostly opinion. Asking for evidence is illogical, if every comment must be supported by factual evidence it will be very quiet around here. Nothing wrong with opinion as long as there is some basis, but opinion and fact should not be confused.

My opinion on Hamilton being hard on the car is that he attacks the kerbs more aggressively. The evidence I have to support this opinion are my eyes. He has had a lot more car problems and failures than Rosberg. That is not my opinion, that is the truth. I see a causal link between the two, that is my opinion.

Or does he have more failures due to bad luck? Even Hamilton no longer believes that.

One point, Hamilton prefers more rear brake bias because it makes the car more pointy? Hmmm..... forward bias will encourage oversteer on turn in, which Hamilton is said to prefer. This occurs because the load on the rear tyres is reduced, reducing grip, increasing rear tyre slip angles. Rearward bias will encourage understeer, which is, loosely, a reluctance to turn in.

that's right IMO, Rosberg has more than stepped up to the plate, IMO is now on par with lewis and if the momentum keeps swinging in his favor, lewis might find him hard to beat at any venue from now on.

[KoolMonkey 0]

I think the tide had already turned WebRic. Nico's been showing these past few races in fact he's no push over at all. I think Hamilton was quicker in a few races earlier in the year, but Nico's more than matched him, I think he's surpassed him in all facets. Most of all the mind and mental battle. Hamilton is utterly frazzled. Heck he's now stating he has no idea how to approach this next race. He doesn't just need his Dad back running his racing career, he needs a total reboot of it and a start over. He's lost, confused and so quick to blame everyone else. This is now Nicos to lose I think.