189 replies to this topic

[Rainmaster]

YHR, on 31 July 2009 - 07:36 PM, said:

Exactly my point.  A teenage rookie is expected to come into F1 cold, and no one seems to have an issue.  MS is the most successful driver ever.  Why should he be allowed to test????  The only resason is so he can perform better on race day, and that my friend is unfair if they don't open it up for everybody!!!!!!!.

Whatever, we will see what the FIA decides.  FOTA is OK with it, but they don't make this decsion, the FIA does.

IMHO they either open up testing for all the teams or tell Ferrari no. Even opening up testing is BS in my opinion.  They are doing something special for someone that they wouldn't do for anyone else on the grid.

Mmm, valid points. I suppose the FIA won't mind him testing because it's in their interests that he comes back and does well, so that he spices the season up a bit.

Anyhow, I suppose there would be an argument that a 7 time world champ is allowed a few dispensations, especially if it's in the interests of the sport.

Edited by El Maestro, 31 July 2009 - 08:07 PM.

[YHR]

El Maestro, on 31 July 2009 - 08:07 PM, said:

Mmm, valid points. I suppose the FIA won't mind him testing because it's in their interests that he comes back and does well, so that he spices the season up a bit.

Anyhow, I suppose there would be an argument that a 7 time world champ is allowed a few dispensations, especially if it's in the interests of the sport.

That is exactly why he doesn't need them.  There really is only one right decsion on this.  Why I would even contemplate the FIA making it, is beyond me,

[pabloh20]

LabradoRacer, on 31 July 2009 - 06:10 PM, said:

You & Dubya went to the same school?



Well, talk about Schu's level of dedication!! Already tested the '07 car today, & all set to test the '09 car tomorrow!

Begging your interludity, but mine was intentment.

[pabloh20]

dribbler, on 31 July 2009 - 07:03 PM, said:

If I may say so, I think George and Paul, in particular are reading way too much into the reasons why Michael retired. Why does there have to be a secret underlying reason? The various rivalries between drivers and their respective apparent 'fears' of each other is on the whole media twoddle, invented to create the illusion of some clash of titans. I believe the reality to be quite different. Most of the drivers competing in F1 probably readily accept that their talents are pretty even. Michael in an average car was no match for say, Alonso in a good one. That doesn't suddenly make Fernando any better. Drivers do well when the whole package works and theat's what they accept. How often do we hear drivers bad mouthing each other?

Michael had privilages at Ferrari and worked with a team of talented people who just so happened to dominate for a long period of time. That's how Michael won. Yes, he knew how to go around a corner and yes, he put in an extra special effort level to help his success, but he was not and is not super human. It was a fortunate set of circumstances all coming together at the right time.

My understanding of his retirement decision was that he was finding it difficult to fully commit, body and mind to the considerable demands of an entire season. He was so in tune with his body that he knew he was past his best. Faced with that prospect, the Schumacher of '07 would not have been as good as the Schumacher of before. If you have achieved at the highest level for so long, it's not unreasnoble to make the decion to stop when you know this is no longer achievable. We are talking tiny detail here; he still would have been at least the equal of the current crop as it was back then but that probably was not enough for him.

So yes, I accept that he would have thought that Kimi and Fernando were as good, if not better than he was. Is that a 'fear' of them? No, I think that's a gracious bow out at exactly the correct time. That hasn't stopped his desire to compete and it's this that creates the preception that he had unfinished business. But let's face it, the odd motorcylce race, the ROC and go karting demand nothing like the commitment he felt necessary to devote to F1 in order to reign supreme.

If he was sitting on the sidelines, positively itching to get back into F1, he would not have undertaken his current commitments or allowed himself to get a little out of shape.

Let's not read too much into the situation. He's doing it because he can and because it's a favour to the team he loves. Being the equal of Kimi and raising a few eyebrows here and there will be a bonus. But there are no psychological wars to be won; Kimi really doesn't care and Michael has nothing to prove. No one is afraid.

Exsqueeze me, but I think you'll find that is pretty much what I said.............only much, much longer [whistling emoticon]

[pabloh20]

YHR, on 31 July 2009 - 07:36 PM, said:

Exactly my point.  A teenage rookie is expected to come into F1 cold, and no one seems to have an issue.  MS is the most successful driver ever.  Why should he be allowed to test????  The only resason is so he can perform better on race day, and that my friend is unfair if they don't open it up for everybody!!!!!!!.

Whatever, we will see what the FIA decides.  FOTA is OK with it, but they don't make this decsion, the FIA does.

IMHO they either open up testing for all the teams or tell Ferrari no. Even opening up testing is BS in my opinion.  They are doing something special for someone that they wouldn't do for anyone else on the grid.

Hadn't Alguersuari already done some testing in the car during the season though?

I agree they shouldn't let him test the 2009 car, but it looks as though even if he does, it will be for 1 day only.

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer]

pabloh20, on 31 July 2009 - 08:54 PM, said:

Hadn't Alguersuari already done some testing in the car during the season though?

I agree they shouldn't let him test the 2009 car, but it looks as though even if he does, it will be for 1 day only.

Ah who gives a crap?

As far as I am concerned Schui could spend the next 3 weeks testing in every F1 car on the grid if he wanted

No, I am not a Schui fanboy, but I recognise that him coming back will make the remainder of this year's F1 gripping for lots of reasons.

[tifosi too!]

YHR, on 31 July 2009 - 04:59 PM, said:

Is it just me.  Allowing MS to test is breaking the rules isn't it???  They never let the Rookie at Torro Rossi test last race???

I don't understand how come there are two sets of rules. I don't car what MS has done in the past, this sport should be bigger then that.  MS comes back , and everyone roles over.  Testing in a two year old Ferrari is fine in my books, but allowing him to test the 2009 is wrong.  If they are going to do this they better drop the testing ban for all the teams.  The new rookie would benefit from testing as well so they should let him.  IF they don't this whole thing stinks.   Preferential treatment should not be given to any driver or team.

Even if they do let him test the 2009, there will be a perfectly logical explanation, you never stopped to think...

STR replaced their driver on their own will and under their own terms.

Ferrari is doing it under extraordinary circumstances, because FM was injured during qualifying.
It's a last minute resort and since they bring a driver who has no knowledge of the 2009 F1 cars and they have no other suitable replacement, they should be allowed to provide him with the means to prepare himself.

[YHR]

tifosi too!, on 31 July 2009 - 10:49 PM, said:

Even if they do let him test the 2009, there will be a perfectly logical explanation, you never stopped to think...

STR replaced their driver on their own will and under their own terms.

Ferrari is doing it under extraordinary circumstances, because FM was injured during qualifying.
It's a last minute resort and since they bring a driver who has no knowledge of the 2009 F1 cars and they have no other suitable replacement, they should be allowed to provide him with the means to prepare himself.

I have thought about it.  Ferrari have test drivers on staff familiar with the car.  They never needed to bring in MS to field a second driver.  They chose that route knowing full well the guy hasn't driven the 2009 F1 car.  That was their choice, and they knew about the testing ban when thay made that choice.  It is a great PR move and lettng MS practice makes good racing sense.  However testing is not allowed. End of story.  MS knows his way around a track and how F1 functions.  TIme in the car will allow him to practise his craft.  Why shouldn't ever other driver be given that opportunitiy.  Especially that Torro Rosso rookie.  

I think it is great MS is back driving, but lets be real about this.  No special treatment, the rules are the rules.

[tifosi too!]

YHR, on 31 July 2009 - 11:01 PM, said:

I have thought about it. Ferrari have test drivers on staff familiar with the car.  They never needed to bring in MS to field a second driver.  They chose that route knowing full well the guy hasn't driven the 2009 F1 car.  That was their choice, and they knew about the testing ban when thay made that choice.  It is a great PR move and lettng MS practice makes good racing sense.  However testing is not allowed. End of story.  MS knows his way around a track and how F1 functions.  TIme in the car will allow him to practise his craft.  Why shouldn't ever other driver be given that opportunitiy.  Especially that Torro Rosso rookie.  

I think it is great MS is back driving, but lets be real about this.  No special treatment, the rules are the rules.

Whaaat??
The test drivers in all the F1 teams hardly tested this year!!
Yes, they needed MS because this is Ferrari we are talking about. Badoer and Gene are not good enough to be frontrunners, as they should be.
Also Ferrari knew about the testing ban and still brought in MS, so what?
Did they say they took for granted they would be given permission to test??

And since you have thought about the reason I mentioned, why did you dismiss it?

[YHR]

tifosi too!, on 31 July 2009 - 11:36 PM, said:

Whaaat??
The test drivers in all the F1 teams hardly tested this year!!
Yes, they needed MS because this is Ferrari we are talking about. Badoer and Gene are not good enough to be frontrunners, as they should be.
Also Ferrari knew about the testing ban and still brought in MS, so what?
Did they say they took for granted they would be given permission to test??

And since you have thought about the reason I mentioned, why did you dismiss it?

Massa got hurt.  Ferrari had many options, and they chose Schumacher.  So great.  So please Ferrari don't start whinning about poor Ferrari and MS needing extra time to test, that shouldn't be an option for them.  IF they make it an option for them , then they have to let everyone test.

I am not sure where you are coming from on this.  I am happy Ferrari has Schumacher back.  I'll watch the next race because of it.  All I am saying is F1 should be too big to change the rules for one particulair driver.  Ferrari knew all the facts when they brought MS back, so let them live with that decision.  Hey Michael's passing skills might be rusty too.  Maybe we should just start him at the front of the grid so he doesn't have to endure that frustration.

[LabradoRacer]

pabloh20, on 31 July 2009 - 08:40 PM, said:

Begging your interludity, but mine was intentment.

Sorry if I sounded rude. No offense was intended!

[Argento Reloaded]

El Maestro, on 31 July 2009 - 08:07 PM, said:

Mmm, valid points. I suppose the FIA won't mind him testing because it's in their interests that he comes back and does well, so that he spices the season up a bit.

Anyhow, I suppose there would be an argument that a 7 time world champ is allowed a few dispensations, especially if it's in the interests of the sport.

He already had some dispensations, especially those to allow him to win some of his WC, remember 1995?

[F1 FANatic]

WOW, so many people and so many misinformed nonsensical posts.

I really don't even care about MS retiring and why so I will just skip that point.

Secondly though, nobody here seams to have read any article past the first paragraph regarding Michael testing the 09 car so let me set you guys clear.

On Tuesday and Wednesday Michael tested the 07 car on GP2 tires, the same tires F1 teams use for Demos. Then Ferrari asked FOTA, the FIA and the two non FOTA teams Williams and Force India if they would allow Michael to test the 09 car with 09 tires. The only way Michael would be allowed to test if all the teams on the grid and the FIA unanimously agree.FOTA said they would not object to Michael driving. Who cares why, were they pressured by LDM, I don't know and I don't care. The FIA has not said anything about it yet. They may say no, the may say yes, either way everybody will say that Either the FIA is trying to show that it does not Favor Ferrari or that they love Ferrari, in the end though who cares. If anything I would say Burnie tells Max to say yes because he wants to milk the Schumi cash cow.

Also Williams and Force India need to agree. Who knows what they will say.

So, for people who dont like to read and just skip to the last two sentences let me clarify: Schumi test Ferrari only when all FIA, FOTA, Williams, FI ok say

[YHR]

F1 FANatic, on 01 August 2009 - 04:00 AM, said:

WOW, so many people and so many misinformed nonsensical posts.

I really don't even care about MS retiring and why so I will just skip that point.

Secondly though, nobody here seams to have read any article past the first paragraph regarding Michael testing the 09 car so let me set you guys clear.

On Tuesday and Wednesday Michael tested the 07 car on GP2 tires, the same tires F1 teams use for Demos. Then Ferrari asked FOTA, the FIA and the two non FOTA teams Williams and Force India if they would allow Michael to test the 09 car with 09 tires. The only way Michael would be allowed to test if all the teams on the grid and the FIA unanimously agree.FOTA said they would not object to Michael driving. Who cares why, were they pressured by LDM, I don't know and I don't care. The FIA has not said anything about it yet. They may say no, the may say yes, either way everybody will say that Either the FIA is trying to show that it does not Favor Ferrari or that they love Ferrari, in the end though who cares. If anything I would say Burnie tells Max to say yes because he wants to milk the Schumi cash cow.

Also Williams and Force India need to agree. Who knows what they will say.

So, for people who dont like to read and just skip to the last two sentences let me clarify: Schumi test Ferrari only when all FIA, FOTA, Williams, FI ok say

My posts clearly state, IF the FIA allow MS to test then they must allow all to test.  I certainly never indicated in my posts that this test was being allowed.

[F1 FANatic]

YHR, on 01 August 2009 - 04:26 AM, said:

My posts clearly state, IF the FIA allow MS to test then they must allow all to test.  I certainly never indicated in my posts that this test was being allowed.

The FIA does not need to let anybody else test. Ferrari asked for a one day of testing exemption for MS which can me granted if unanimously agreed upon by all the teams on the grid and the FIA. I am just explaining the rules and how they are being applied

[YHR]

F1 FANatic, on 01 August 2009 - 04:46 AM, said:

The FIA does not need to let anybody else test. Ferrari asked for a one day of testing exemption for MS which can me granted if unanimously agreed upon by all the teams on the grid and the FIA. I am just explaining the rules and how they are being applied

What I am saying is to be fair if they let MS test for a day then they should let them all test for day.  Of course they don't have to do this, I was only stating my opinion on the matter.

My view is you don't change the rules for anybody.

[dribbler]

F1 FANatic, on 01 August 2009 - 04:00 AM, said:

WOW, so many people and so many misinformed nonsensical posts.

I really don't even care about MS retiring and why so I will just skip that point.

Secondly though, nobody here seams to have read any article past the first paragraph regarding Michael testing the 09 car so let me set you guys clear.

On Tuesday and Wednesday Michael tested the 07 car on GP2 tires, the same tires F1 teams use for Demos. Then Ferrari asked FOTA, the FIA and the two non FOTA teams Williams and Force India if they would allow Michael to test the 09 car with 09 tires. The only way Michael would be allowed to test if all the teams on the grid and the FIA unanimously agree.FOTA said they would not object to Michael driving. Who cares why, were they pressured by LDM, I don't know and I don't care. The FIA has not said anything about it yet. They may say no, the may say yes, either way everybody will say that Either the FIA is trying to show that it does not Favor Ferrari or that they love Ferrari, in the end though who cares. If anything I would say Burnie tells Max to say yes because he wants to milk the Schumi cash cow.

Also Williams and Force India need to agree. Who knows what they will say.

So, for people who dont like to read and just skip to the last two sentences let me clarify: Schumi test Ferrari only when all FIA, FOTA, Williams, FI ok say

That's patronising and pompous.

[tifosi too!]

YHR, on 01 August 2009 - 12:39 AM, said:

Massa got hurt.  Ferrari had many options, and they chose Schumacher.  So great.  So please Ferrari don't start whinning about poor Ferrari and MS needing extra time to test, that shouldn't be an option for them.  IF they make it an option for them , then they have to let everyone test.

I am not sure where you are coming from on this.  I am happy Ferrari has Schumacher back.  I'll watch the next race because of it.  All I am saying is F1 should be too big to change the rules for one particulair driver.  Ferrari knew all the facts when they brought MS back, so let them live with that decision.  Hey Michael's passing skills might be rusty too.  Maybe we should just start him at the front of the grid so he doesn't have to endure that frustration.

I simply gave you the reason why MS should be allowed to test, because he replaces a driver that was injured during official track time (qualy) and it's only logical they cut them some slack to prepare, since nobody has active F1 drivers lying around the garage (apart from Kimi of course ).

P.S Jumped thread to the 'Question" one!

[Insider]

The world isn't fair and Ferrari always get what they want.  STR won't say anything because they use Ferrari engines. Schumacher is treated like a latter day God in F1 circles. Massa was the most vociferous of several drivers in criticising Jaime, [which I have to say was pathetic beyond words] and the safety issues raised by the rookie's outing last week. I am a big fan of the young Spaniard - he seems to have the what it takes to get on. He did a great job last week. So, Massa's horrific accident was most unfortunate but that's open c#ckpit motor racing for you. Things happen. Michael may be a bit flabby and rusty and not driven in a race for three years but he has tested. For me, it's just tough sh#t on Ferrari. No other member team would have been afforded the same facility by FOTA, mark my words and I see this as a black mark against the Association. Whether STR did or did not make a request is irrelevant - the rules are the rules and must be adhered to strictly. I hope the FIA refuse for the sake of continuance and right. Either that, or for safety's sake, change the rules and allow all substitute drivers to test for one day prior to racing.

EDIT: Original text posted in another thread and altered for this one.

Edited by Insider, 01 August 2009 - 10:55 AM.

[Jean Todt]

Man...I cant wait for the next race....

[tifosi too!]

Insider, on 01 August 2009 - 10:53 AM, said:

The world isn't fair and Ferrari always get what they want.  STR won't say anything because they use Ferrari engines. Schumacher is treated like a latter day God in F1 circles. Massa was the most vociferous of several drivers in criticising Jaime, [which I have to say was pathetic beyond words] and the safety issues raised by the rookie's outing last week. I am a big fan of the young Spaniard - he seems to have the what it takes to get on. He did a great job last week. So, Massa's horrific accident was most unfortunate but that's open c#ckpit motor racing for you. Things happen. Michael may be a bit flabby and rusty and not driven in a race for three years but he has tested. For me, it's just tough sh#t on Ferrari. No other member team would have been afforded the same facility by FOTA, mark my words and I see this as a black mark against the Association. Whether STR did or did not make a request is irrelevant - the rules are the rules and must be adhered to strictly. I hope the FIA refuse for the sake of continuance and right. Either that, or for safety's sake, change the rules and allow all substitute drivers to test for one day prior to racing.

EDIT: Original text posted in another thread and altered for this one.

I get the impression we don't do any dialogue in here, just individual monologues...

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer]

tifosi too!, on 01 August 2009 - 11:16 AM, said:

I get the impression we don't do any dialogue in here, just individual monologues...

I just did a mono-log, good job I switched the fan on

[pumpdoc]

meanioni, on 01 August 2009 - 01:10 PM, said:

I just did a mono-log, good job I switched the fan on

So you watched it go bye-bye

[Insider]

tifosi too!, on 01 August 2009 - 11:16 AM, said:

I get the impression we don't do any dialogue in here, just individual monologues...

Whaddya want? A text?

[tifosi too!]

Insider, on 01 August 2009 - 01:50 PM, said:

Whaddya want? A text?

What I meant was that we are supposed to take other people's opinions and facts into consideration when replying, not just writing down whatever we think and reject everything else.

Otherwise what's the point of using the "reply" or "add reply" button?
There should have been an "add personal opinion only" button!

This way we end up having a thread full of mono-logs (thanks Meanioni )...

[dribbler]

I had a lovely day on thursday. I rode my motorcycle to Melton Mowbray and ate a pork pie. It really was one of the better days of my year. Other motorcycle and pastry goods stories can be found on my blog which is highly interesting because it's about me.

[Quiet One]

I mean, I 'm sick of this wall paper. Really. What's the point on ruining a wall with such an ugly wallpaper. And then, of course it starts coming off and all that. I tell ya, they will have to hear me. And they WILL!

[tifosi too!]

This reminds me of that time, when I was riding into the sunset on a horse with no name...
I ended up calling it Dolly, she called me Luke!
So did the others.

I was fast, faster than my shadow people use to say.
All was good, apart from those Dalton boys and that pesky dog...

What do you mean "we are leaving"??

[YHR]

tifosi too!, on 31 July 2009 - 11:36 PM, said:

Whaaat??
The test drivers in all the F1 teams hardly tested this year!!
Yes, they needed MS because this is Ferrari we are talking about. Badoer and Gene are not good enough to be frontrunners, as they should be.
Also Ferrari knew about the testing ban and still brought in MS, so what?
Did they say they took for granted they would be given permission to test??

And since you have thought about the reason I mentioned, why did you dismiss it?

Here is my take on all of your opinions above, since you seem to be disappointed I did not answer them directly.  ALhtough if you would have read my replies you would seen I have already offered my opinion on all of these topics already.

However I will sum them all up in this one reply to you.

They may not have tested a lot but they helped develop the 09 car and know it intimately.  THey are not top notch drivers, but they are as good as most other testers.  THey could have stepped in and done the job.  That's my opinion on your first two statements.

Ferrari knew of the testing ban when they brought in MS, that is what. They never assumed he would be given special treatment, but they have now asked for it.

I dismissed the extraordinary injury to Massa as being unfortunate, but the rules are the rules.  I don't think MS out there will present any greated danger then the rookie did last race, and he made it to the end of the race without hurting anyone. Surely MS can do the same.

Is that enough logs for you

Edited by YHR, 01 August 2009 - 03:37 PM.

[Rainmaster]

Pfft I agree with Meani-wan Kenobi, it's a non-issue. The FIA's rules are stupid but that's nothing new. Ferrari asked for permission which is what you'd expect.

Now, lets talk about something interesting, like why did he retire...(yes, that is the sound of whistling you can hear).