17 replies to this topic

[KoolMonkey]

So the inevitable good news about a US F1GP being hosted in Texas is met with the WTF moment I knew was coming. Yes you guessed it, the mongrel who is ruining F1 with horrid race tracks devoid of any character and redeeming qualities has been selected by his nepotistic brethren Dear Bernie to design the Austin track. All I need now to complete my day is for Jonathan Legard to say the term "schumachesque" when referring to any passing move Hamilton makes, and also to refer to Force India as the team formerly known as Jordan, but ignoring to mention Midland or Spyker and I feel complete.

Why can't we have more of tracks like Spa, and less of Bahrain. The only thing I've seen from Tilke that's worth remembering is Turn 8 in Turkey.

Common sense is so short of supply in this sport. Some interesting tracks couldn't hurt, nor making the cars look a little less dorky (hate that horrid small rear wing). If Bernie's replacement is as good as Max's replacement was, then bring on Bernie's gold watch.

[Argento Reloaded]

More race, less Tilke!

[dribbler]

I hope Lewis can put some Schumacher-esque moves on people at the new track. I also hope it's fruitfull for teams like Force India, who of course were formerly Jordan.

[KoolMonkey]

Now my day is complete

Thanks dribbler  

[Rainmaster]

dribbler, on 27 May 2010 - 01:18 PM, said:

I hope Lewis can put some Schumacher-esque moves on people at the new track. I also hope it's fruitfull for teams like Force India, who of course were formerly Jordan.

I second that.

Actually, I don't think Tilke is that bad. F1 certainly has bigger problems than its tracks. Saying that, it would make sense to have more than one guy (or one team?) of designers modelling the track. Fresh ideas and all that.

[Autumnpuma]

The disgusting thing is that the U.S. is as big and as populated as the whole of Europe and they couldn't even find  one track here that would work? C'mon, we've got classic tracks coming out of our arses. Ah well, I guess Tilke needs the cash.

[Kate's Dirty Sister]

Autumnpuma, on 27 May 2010 - 06:05 PM, said:

The disgusting thing is that the U.S. is as big and as populated as the whole of Europe and they couldn't even find  one track here that would work? C'mon, we've got classic tracks coming out of our arses. Ah well, I guess Tilke needs the cash.

And there is the reason why...I don't know about you but I don't want to see F1 cars coming out of some ones arse   

Seriously though, I don't think Tilke and his team have made one awesome track yet.  I don't get why his company keep being used when all the new tracks they've designed are a bit crap.  Malaysia's the best (did he designed that one?  I don't know ha!).  The old tracks are miles better, it's not just about the history but they're designed better. I know they're not as safe but I'm sure most fans would prefer the old tracks to be updated rather than completely new tracks that suck.  

Anyway I want F1 to go back to Indianapolis, I liked it there.

[AleHop]

Kate, on 27 May 2010 - 06:24 PM, said:

Seriously though, I don't think Tilke and his team have made one awesome track yet.

At least Turkey is not the worst of them. I hope it's hot like hell.

[JHS]

If there's one thing other than the thought of Max Mosley being spanked by Nazi hookers to make you shudder, it's that name. "Hermann Tilke"

If that bloke had an entrance theme, it would be the soundtrack of Jaws.

Thank God we have the likes of Silverstone, Monza, Spa and Monaco that HAVEN'T been designed by that a$$ monkey.

When will the FIA get the hint and GET A DAMN BETTER TRACK DESIGNER?!

[KoolMonkey]

If I was cyncial I'd say Bernie has a vested interested in having chosen Tilke to design tracks. He's clearly getting some kickback from Tilke's company, or he's using Tilke as he is a guy who won't say no to Bernie. Thus Bernie can add his two cents to whatever track he feels needs this or that and it will be done by his gimp.

Autumnpuma you're so right, just imagine Laguna Seca... the corkscrew with Vettel screaming over the top, RVs parked in clusters around the track, stands full on a nice sunny day. There's so many good tracks in the US. The frankenapolis track was a travesty showing how devoid of clear thinking these guys had. Thank goodness we've seen the last of that track. It's an oval and a fantastic one and should stay like that. I've always thought they should have run the oval like the IndyCars and made the event more special by being unique, rather than do some silly infield nonsense.

Anyway, Austin could still be fantastic, but we all know the problems of circuit design and the difficulty in passing in the modern era. Tilke isn't helping this situation, yet he's still pumping out the tracks. I was so excited when Turkey first made an appearance, but after each Tilke track was then raced on, it was obvious he shouldn't be designing tracks. Does he have any racing pedigree I wonder?

I hope one day a new designer is contracted, one who listens to past and present great drivers and creates a track drivers want to actually race on. It shows in the end too. You see more exuberance and passion in the drivers at Spa than Boorain.

[Autumnpuma]

Laguna Seca is always a popular choice, but I'd like to see them screaming down Shoreline Drive, setting up for the inevitable pass or crash at turn 1.

I suppose that amidst all this fun Tilke-bashing, we should spare a moment for something said in his defense. Most of his tracks aren't boring for other series to race upon. Blahrain, for instance, put on a very good show in V8s. I seem to remember good times at a few Tilke tracks in GP2. The continuing aerodynamic troubles the current F1 cars are saddled with is the biggest contributor to a boring race. The point-and-squirt, straights and stops of a Tilke track, admittedly don't help the situation.

Texas. Well, at least when I wear my boots I'll blend in.

Edited by Autumnpuma, 28 May 2010 - 12:26 AM.

[yurp]

What has always made Tilke a poor designer to me, is that he seems unable to design in 3 dimensions.

When I was studying for my Achitecture degree it was easy to see who was able to properly visualise buildings in 3D and who couldn't. It was inate in students' designs. Those who could hold and manipulate the 3 dimensional product in their head, and those who could only think in plans and elevations were easy to tell apart. The former produced crafted beauty, the latter, stolid lumps. It would be better for all, if those who think in 2D, stick to 2D fields - they may well excel at them.

Back to Tilke - with that limitation he'll never really create a track that's a provides i) a real challange in setup for the teams and ii) various setup approaches that might work equally well. On all his tracks, teams know which approach to take and just spend the weekend refining and dialing in on the perfect setup.

[JHS]

Watkins Glen. That's somewhere I'd really like to see modern day F1 cars race.

[UrKo]

KoolMonkey, on 27 May 2010 - 12:33 PM, said:

Why can't we have more of tracks like Spa, and less of Bahrain. The only thing I've seen from Tilke that's worth remembering is Turn 8 in Turkey.

Agreed. His tracks are boring. I really don't understand why he can't do interesting tracks with lots of possibilities to overtake. I mean c'mon, i can make a track on a pcs of paper that would look 100 times better than what Tilke did.

KoolMonkey, on 27 May 2010 - 12:33 PM, said:

Common sense is so short of supply in this sport. Some interesting tracks couldn't hurt, nor making the cars look a little less dorky (hate that horrid small rear wing). If Bernie's replacement is as good as Max's replacement was, then bring on Bernie's gold watch.

U'r not the only one. Cars look like they're 100 or more yrs old. F1 lost the title of being the Pinnacle of motosport with that look. Awful design. bring back 2008 car models and for **** sake put back V10!!!!!

[Silas Talbot]

Some Tilke tracks are better than others (Sepang is beautiful), but the real annoying thing about this announcement is that he has a monopoly on F1 track design.

He must be giving kickbacks to Bernie or some such. Did the FIA ever decide formally that they're going to have an 'official track designer?'. Tilke is not the only person on the planet capable of building large run-off areas around turns.

[stopkidding]

UrKo, on 29 May 2010 - 07:08 AM, said:

Agreed. His tracks are boring. I really don't understand why he can't do interesting tracks with lots of possibilities to overtake. I mean c'mon, i can make a track on a pcs of paper that would look 100 times better than what Tilke did.


U'r not the only one. Cars look like they're 100 or more yrs old. F1 lost the title of being the Pinnacle of motosport with that look. Awful design. bring back 2008 car models and for **** sake put back V10!!!!!

You can't design tracks like Spa or Monaco or Nurburgring. They just happen! Geography, the best available circumstances, made those classics. As for Herman Tilke and his designs, I think he is being chosen not so much because he can draw black squiggles on the ground, but because Tilke represents a complete architectural and construction firm that handle every aspect of the design, from paddocks, safety areas, toilets, parking, pits and fences and barriers and also that black tarmac that races are run on. Anyone can draw a great circuit on paper, what makes Tilke popular with Bernie is that his company is known to deliver great construction and design on time around the world. You get the experience and the resource of a construction firm more than a just track designer...

my 2 cents

[UrKo]

i guess there is a special love between Hermann and Bernie.

[KoolMonkey]

stopkidding, on 03 June 2010 - 12:22 AM, said:

You can't design tracks like Spa or Monaco or Nurburgring. They just happen! Geography, the best available circumstances, made those classics. As for Herman Tilke and his designs, I think he is being chosen not so much because he can draw black squiggles on the ground, but because Tilke represents a complete architectural and construction firm that handle every aspect of the design, from paddocks, safety areas, toilets, parking, pits and fences and barriers and also that black tarmac that races are run on. Anyone can draw a great circuit on paper, what makes Tilke popular with Bernie is that his company is known to deliver great construction and design on time around the world. You get the experience and the resource of a construction firm more than a just track designer...

my 2 cents

Some great points. I was thinking this as well.

The fact Tilke has a firm to construct these race tracks is only a convenient option, not a necessity. A designer can still design a track, then work with whoever to built it. Everything you've mentioned above is all relevant however, it's just that the most important part of all, the actual race track itself seems to have been lost out in favour of press facilities, and all the other amenities.

Obviously more people watch F1 on TV vs at the racetrack itself. Watching a race at Spa, Le Mans or the Indy 500, they all have either a great racetrack, great tradition and atmosphere and a still decent track, or are so exciting to drive, the F1 drivers can't wait to get in the car.

All the new Tilke tracks don't have very much of anything, accept well paved run off areas, and great facilities. But empty stands in Turkey and China don't make it a great atmosphere. Probably the only one of any interest from a show standpoint is Singapore.

Anyway, I don't think Tilke is the devil. Rather it's time another designer had a chance to make a track. Tilke's made several now and I've got to say they are simply boring in many areas.