325 replies to this topic

[BradSpeedMan]

JHS18, on 18 March 2012 - 11:40 PM, said:

I really don't see how Domenicali's fault. Maybe I view it too simply - but it's not as if he's the one designing the bad cars, or telling Massa how to perform, is it?

Maybe you should watch a Bug's life James.... the part where Hopper gives a leadership speech to a bunch of ants after they screwed up...quite thought provoking

Edited by BradSpeedMan, 20 March 2012 - 09:11 AM.

[HandyNZL]

This bit?

[BradSpeedMan]

HandyNZL, on 20 March 2012 - 09:15 AM, said:

This bit?

no...this bit, but that bit is very thought provoking too... valueble life's lessons in that seemingly meaningless little animation movie

Edited by BradSpeedMan, 20 March 2012 - 09:24 AM.

[HandyNZL]

So which ant was Massa again?

[BradSpeedMan]

HandyNZL, on 20 March 2012 - 09:26 AM, said:

So which ant was Massa again?

the one on knees bumping into Hopper?

[BradSpeedMan]

my god, this thread has been everywhere! Thanks Andres err, I think

Edited by BradSpeedMan, 20 March 2012 - 09:55 AM.

[JHS18]

Massa, on 20 March 2012 - 01:52 AM, said:

I don't remember his Suzuka 2010 drive; I never saw it.

Anyway, you may be correct, but if DRS makes Kobayashi's ability to overtake less significant, doesn't being in a better car do the same?  It's easier to overtake when you qualify worse than you should have.  When you plant your Red Bull or McLaren on the front row, it's more about being able to manage a race, and that's not an area of Kobayashi's talent we've been able to scout a whole lot.  Good overtakers are less of a premium the better the team you get to, and that doesn't mean that Hamilton/Alonso/Button/Vettel can't overtake, because we've seen them all do it, it just means that's not why they got their jobs.

Educate yourself:



I think in a way DRS has partly helped, because we've seen quite a few brilliant non-DRS overtakes. But for whatever reason, Kobayashi hasn't been able to do that as easily as in 2010.

[mikathegreat2]

BradSpeedMan, on 20 March 2012 - 09:53 AM, said:

my god, this thread has been everywhere!

Have you not been on these forums before? This is what we users specialize in

[Quiet One]

Ok, I have no idea what are Massa's charms, but he MUST have something we are overlooking.

http://www.f1zone.ne...re-massa/13133/

Now, however speaks of Massa underperforming because of the team sabotaging him will be really unfair. I can't still say whether I am amazed or disgusted with the level of support these guys give him. Even if this new chasis they are giving him is actually a carton-built car, it is more than the guy has given back lately.

[Massa]

How do we know it isn't sabotage?  Chassis 294 might be intentionally made worse than 293.  You aren't suspicious that they're getting a new chassis ready with such a short turn-around to the next race?  Overnight shipping from some guys in North Carolina selling a chassis on craigslist?  It's got a pullrod suspension, after all...



The support for Massa, and you can tell I like Massa because I never say anything good about him, is just pathetic.  That's why the management has to go.  You can keep installing updates on Internet Explorer, but you aren't going to get it together until you switch to Firefox or Chrome or Safari or whatever else you guys use (my operating system, browser, and ISP are all an America Online Free Trial CD-ROM).  IE has to be good, it's Microsoft, just like the Scuderia have to be good, they're Ferrari.  It doesn't always work that way until you take a different approach (of course you could just go to NetScape and make it worse for yourself, too, and part of me doesn't trust Ferrari to replace Domenicali with the right guy even if they do replace him).

As I've said, I love the guy, but I hope with Massa, this is just a case of the old "the coach's job is safe, we have a system in place, we're playing the system, blah blah blah" press conference from the GM the week before they fire him.  Everyone should be on short leashes over there, and the only one who is performing like he's got a fire under his *** is Fernando Alonso, which makes me vaguely concerned that a fire actually is under his *** and they're going to solve the problem of Massa's driving by getting rid of the thing that's making Massa's driving look even worse.

[HandyNZL]

Soooooo.....Microsoft should replace Massa?

[JHS18]

Microsoft should sell Massa on craigslist and Ferrari should use Chrome?

[Quiet One]

HandyNZL, on 20 March 2012 - 07:39 PM, said:

Soooooo.....Microsoft should replace Massa?

That's pretty much what I understood

[Massa]

I think I was trying to say that Clippo taught Massa how to drive but I'm not sure.

[Massa]

JHS18, on 20 March 2012 - 08:19 PM, said:

Microsoft should sell Massa on craigslist and Ferrari should use Chrome?

The guy who founded craigslist is from the same place I'm from.  His name is Craig.  Craig's name is also Craig.  He moderates the forum with me.  Crazy world.

[Quiet One]

Massa, on 20 March 2012 - 09:14 PM, said:

The guy who founded craigslist is from the same place I'm from.  His name is Craig.  Craig's name is also Craig.  He moderates the forum with me.  Crazy world.

Ahhh, now I understand!

Ok, so, about Massa and the amangement. Yes, I can see your point. But then again, I refuse to  believe that they are so stupid as to keep a guy that costs them millions, wrecks every car he gets into (or alongside with) and is genetically unable to score points. Like you said, it might be a case of saying "nice doggie" while trying to find a rock big enough to throw at him (and SD reaction the moment of the clash with Massa seemed to point in that direction, with SD seemengly snapping at Smedley something), but in this case firing him would have been already justified enough not to need to resort to such forceful support.

So, either they are sticking with him through the thick and thin, or they are going to fire him, yet are doing so in the most delicately possible way. In both cases it is certainly remarkable, considering how ruthless the teams (Ferrari included) have always been when it comes to kicking out some driver. Even Kimi didn't get this treatment.

Here's my current theory: SD is actually Felipinho's real father. Massa Sr. is actually Montoya wearing a mask of Felipe Massa and a pillow to enlarge his belly...no, wait...scrap the pillow...

[Massa]

Well, they did try to get Massa to quit the team by giving him this monstrosity:

http://blog.caranddr...cherokee-srt8s/

I would have walked away...

[Rainmaster]

"Please do not confuse this with news. It is merely something that happened, about which we’ll make the following comments" Love it, that should be used more.

[Quiet One]

How many cars do these guys get as a gift? What's with that? "Hey, he is an F1 driver, what could he possibly need? Oh, I know, a car!"

That's so stupid!

BTW, I wonder why do I get all these soapbars as gifts...

[AleHop]

I thought I had posted about the matter.

I like ie8 and ie9.

[Piotr]

I am completely confused nand have a headache.  We were talking about Kubi's come back, right???

[BradSpeedMan]

Quiet One, on 20 March 2012 - 09:35 PM, said:

Ahhh, now I understand!

Ok, so, about Massa and the amangement. Yes, I can see your point. But then again, I refuse to  believe that they are so stupid as to keep a guy that costs them millions, wrecks every car he gets into (or alongside with) and is genetically unable to score points. Like you said, it might be a case of saying "nice doggie" while trying to find a rock big enough to throw at him (and SD reaction the moment of the clash with Massa seemed to point in that direction, with SD seemengly snapping at Smedley something), but in this case firing him would have been already justified enough not to need to resort to such forceful support.

So, either they are sticking with him through the thick and thin, or they are going to fire him, yet are doing so in the most delicately possible way. In both cases it is certainly remarkable, considering how ruthless the teams (Ferrari included) have always been when it comes to kicking out some driver. Even Kimi didn't get this treatment.

Here's my current theory: SD is actually Felipinho's real father. Massa Sr. is actually Montoya wearing a mask of Felipe Massa and a pillow to enlarge his belly...no, wait...scrap the pillow...

u still don't believe my theory of 2008?

[BradSpeedMan]

Well, seems Andres is not alone in making this suggestion, he seems to be right with alot of things nowadays...

Report links Trulli with Massa’s Ferrari race seat
One race into the 2012 season, the Italian press has already named a candidate for beleaguered Ferrari driver Felipe Massa’s seat.On notice by the famous team and with an expiring contract, the Brazilian driver had a nightmare 2012 opener in Australia. Mika Salo, the 1999 Ferrari substitute driver, told broadcaster MTV3 that Massa’s performance, “compared to Alonso’s, was very poor”. Autosprint, the Italian weekly, has suggested the out-of-work grand prix winner Jarno Trulli is available to step in immediately to replace Massa. The Maranello based team appeared to immediately react in the form of a report on its official website, acknowledging its 30-year-old driver “has certainly been the target of criticism” after Melbourne. Indeed, so poor was Massa’s performance last weekend that Ferrari has agreed to scrap his chassis and replace it with a brand new one for Sepang, despite the one-week turnaround between the flyaway back-to-back races. “This choice was taken to clear up any doubts about the unusual performance of his car during the weekend at Albert Park,” said the team. Ferrari also revealed that team boss Stefano Domenicali and technical director Pat Fry returned to Maranello after Australia rather than make the much-shorter trek to Malaysia. “The fifth position of Fernando Alonso in Australia was a distortion,” argued former Ferrari engineer Joan Villadelprat in the Spanish newspaper El Pais. “Actually, I see a much harsher reality for them.”Another Spanish newspaper, AS, reports that Ferrari is pressing the throttle on a ‘plan B’, involving a substantial redesign of the F2012 chassis for China that will involve a new FIA crash test.
F1Zone

[HandyNZL]

Won't be Trulli - that's just Italian nationalism wanting an Italian in Formula One.

Why pay out Massa early, and then pay for another driver that would demand seven-digits.  Doesn't make economical sense, and really that's all it comes down to.  Massa obviously has a pretty good "can't fire me" clause in his contract, else they would have ditched him last year.

The more I think about it, the more Massa is likely to stay for 2012.

However, the longer he stay's, the lower his stock will become, certainly if his form continues as it did at Australia.  He may find it hard to land another seat next year because of it too.

Maybe he should just jump ship before being pushed?

[Rainmaster]

There's no such thing as a can't fire me clause, that's the last of the reasons Ferrari keep him. In any case if his performance remains so poor they would surely have reasonable grounds to do it. They keep him because they are sentimental/have some kind of poor judgement about him. They don't have economical sense, they paid Raikkonen millions not to drive for them for a year, a crazy decision. I don't think Massa is on anywhere near as much money, so the money/contract issue isn't the thing keeping him around.

Replacing him with Trulli would be fairly pointless and I hope that doesn't happen, although I don't have too much faith that they wouldn't do something like that. I think in the end they will probably keep Massa for the whole season.

[Senna's Ghost]

If Massa doesn't perform in the first half of the season then he will be replaced at some point during the second half, that is assuming that the Melbourne pace is an accurate measure of the performace level of the car (if the car is worse then more individuals than Massa will be heading out of Maranello).  The media pressure will be so great that Ferrari will have to react.  Massa's contact is up at the end of the season so it's not as though they have to pay him a great deal more.

Who will they get to replace him?  Short term it will be one of the STR boys of last year.  Longer than that; if Perez has a good season and regularly out performs his team mate then I think he is almost certainly going to get the drive.  He can bring Carlos Slim with him.  So you'll have the wealthiest man in the world with the most prestigous car brand in the world.  Nice ring to that.

Outside bet would be Webber for 1 season.

[yurp]

Massa, on 20 March 2012 - 09:10 PM, said:

I think I was trying to say that Clippo taught Massa how to drive but I'm not sure.

 images.jpg   15.96K   9 downloads

[Quiet One]

#46, on 21 March 2012 - 09:40 AM, said:

There's no such thing as a can't fire me clause, that's the last of the reasons Ferrari keep him. In any case if his performance remains so poor they would surely have reasonable grounds to do it. They keep him because they are sentimental/have some kind of poor judgement about him. They don't have economical sense, they paid Raikkonen millions not to drive for them for a year, a crazy decision. I don't think Massa is on anywhere near as much money, so the money/contract issue isn't the thing keeping him around.

Replacing him with Trulli would be fairly pointless and I hope that doesn't happen, although I don't have too much faith that they wouldn't do something like that. I think in the end they will probably keep Massa for the whole season.

Personally, I think that there's no such thing as silly sentimentalism or poor judgement at THIS level of underperformance. Silly sentimentalism was McLaren overprotecting Lewis when a godd old slap on the face and a "Man it up!" shout would have worked better to bring a good driver back to the fight. By that time Ferrari in  the persons of LdM and SD were telling everybody how great Alonso was and how close was Massa to be sent home with an F in his report card. So there's obviously no unconditional love for him, nor ignorance of his untenable level of performance.

It is (and historically always were) a team very sensitive to the media and public pressure. And the pressure they receive is enormous (for the record, they consider "people and media" only the Italian ones). When everybody else is aking for Massa's head, whether justifiably so or not, and being a rather cheap scapegoat for the current crysis at Maranello it is still remarkable that they keep sticking so strongly with Felipinho, even knowing that any pressure that they don't re direct against Massa will explode right in Sd and LdM hand (I am not saying that this should be the RIGHT course of action, mind you, but the most logical from Ldm and SD)

There's a hint of what is happening on Brad's quoted article when they say “This choice was taken to clear up any doubts about the unusual performance of his car during the weekend at Albert Park,”.
Knowing that the guy can't be replaced before Malaysia, anyways, they are using him as a guinea pig and, probably, to lay as much blame on the failure to perform from the teams' side as possible.
They know that so far, Alonso has been more than flawless and the pits as well (were the fastest pitstops consistently during the whole Austrailan GP), so they are quite short on candidates for the public bonfire that is being built right now...except for LdM or SD themselves...

[DPR]

quite simply LdM IS FIAT/FERRARI , so he ain't going anywhere!!
This is the man who thanked MS for all his hard work by shoving him out of the door, then thanked KR for his WDC by doing the same.
I'm not too sure about SD, but if LdM likes him, then that's that!!

You may want to refer to my posting on the fuel blending to help understand why the last year has been such a bad one for Ferrari development.
Massa wiil stay for the duration of 2012!

[BradSpeedMan]

Quiet One, on 21 March 2012 - 11:20 AM, said:

It is (and historically always were) a team very sensitive to the media and public pressure. And the pressure they receive is enormous (for the record, they consider "people and media" only the Italian ones). When everybody else is aking for Massa's head, whether justifiably so or not, and being a rather cheap scapegoat for the current crysis at Maranello it is still remarkable that they keep sticking so strongly with Felipinho, even knowing that any pressure that they don't re direct against Massa will explode right in Sd and LdM hand (I am not saying that this should be the RIGHT course of action, mind you, but the most logical from Ldm and SD)

Even that (flying out a new chassis for the guy) creates more pressure, what are they gonna say when Massa performs just as bad as he did in Melbourne...