18 replies to this topic

[rodders47]

With the "Sitting Out" of a number of drivers in Q3, in order to save tyres for the race, I feel it is time that a quantity of tyres be issued for Qualifying Only and a quantity of tyres for Race Only use.

The current Q3 qualifying is not as exciting at it once was when all 10 drivers went for pole. Now days it seems that to start tenth with a set of new tyres in hand is more important. Maybe a Cash Incentive might help payable from 1 st to 10th to get all 10 cars on track?

[dribbler]

I don't think we have reached enough of a critical point yet. Presumably, your thread is fuelled by Mark Webber's suggestion that we will see everyone sit it out.

I like the fact that drivers have to think about race day on a Saturday. Yes, we may occasionally see some drivers not do a lap in Q3, but for me, this adds to the interest come Sunday. I'm happy to forgoe a bit of the spectacle in qualifying if we see Lewis, for example starting tenth.

[F1 FANatic]

After Quali i can say again. The Perrelli's are crap and the entire tire situation is so overly rediculously stupid. We literally sat infront of the TV for 8 and a half minutes during Q3 watching Vettel and Michael drive an in and an out lap.

We might as well go back to the 1 lap shoot out with agragate times. At least that way we can see each car on track.

I would just love to hear one of the driver say, infront of the press "I would never buy a Perelli tire for my road car" The race after we would see new tires and no more clag.

Funniest thing is. I have owned Perralli tires on my car and I got rid of them because I was able to get better performing and longer lasting and all around better tires from Bridgestone HAHA

[Delta]

As much as I like the way the Pirelli tyres have spiced up the show, I think it's daft that cars are having to sit out qualifying. As far as I am concerned the teams should have a qualifying allocation of one new set of Primes and Options for each session, and be forced to hand them back rather than having to use their race tyres. Contrary strategies don't seem to have much effect so from an observer's point of view I'd rather see as many cars as possible on track.

[Rainmaster]

It's not an ideal situation. It's good to have different strategies but it isn't right that drivers and teams are forced into that position; it certainly isn't great for paying fans present on the day. But Pirelli are not to blame here (I know that's unfashionable at the moment), I'm fairly sure they suggested providing extra tyres/changing the allocation to prevent this before the season started, but it was vetoed by the teams.

[Delta]

Rainmaster, on 13 May 2012 - 10:32 PM, said:

It's not an ideal situation. It's good to have different strategies but it isn't right that drivers and teams are forced into that position; it certainly isn't great for paying fans present on the day. But Pirelli are not to blame here (I know that's unfashionable at the moment), I'm fairly sure they suggested providing extra tyres/changing the allocation to prevent this before the season started, but it was vetoed by the teams.

Yep, they floated the idea of manufacturing super sticky qualifying tyres before the start of the season and the FIA vetoed it. I agree with you, it's the FIA that set the rules, Pirelli just supply what they are asked to supply

[HandyNZL]

Look...it's just not green nor sustainable to have all these tyres used for three laps then chucked out.  And don't get me started on all the fuel they use driving around in circles - I mean it's staggering high and accounts for something like 0.000000000000000000001% of the worlds fuel usage during the daytime.  Oh, and all those carbon bits on the cars - how can that be carbon neutral? Killing the world this sport is, I tell ya.  Oh and the noise! Not only are they polluting the rivers and the streams and the farmers fields, but they are killing the air with all those sound waves up over 95dBa....it's abhorrent!!  And why haven't the Williams engineers worked out how to fit special carbon fibre braces to Maldonado's lower teeth?  All that metal gleaming at me on the TV...oh my eyes! I was blinded from the light twinkling off them....

[rodders47]

heheheh well at least Pirelli have responded, offering to supply "Qualifying Tyres" next season.

To me that is the only way to go. Like why would any spectator go to the track on a Saturday to see half the field qualify?, with what is the current situation, teams sitting out Q3 to save tyres?

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer]

All FIA has to do is set a rule saying that all drivers must post a fast lap each session or they go to the back of the pack....

[Massa]

Grabthaw the Hammerslayer, on 17 May 2012 - 05:32 AM, said:

All FIA has to do is set a rule saying that all drivers must post a fast lap each session or they go to the back of the pack....

They can't do that.  Car makes Q3, has a mechanical failure, never completes a lap...it would have to be a penalty, because the precedent from Hamilton is that the rules are enforced as they are written (which is exactly the way I think it should be).  A rule like that one, however, sets up way too many scenarios where you would be giving a penalty for nothing, whereas the rule that got Hamilton doesn't actually set up those scenarios with as much frequency and is therefore more justifiable.  The FIA is completely right to try to avoid discretion when possible and just enforce them the way they are written; I was really impressed with their decision with Hamilton.  But they also need to then be mindful that, if rules are enforced without any discretion, they need to be written somewhat carefully with all scenarios in mind.

The best thing to do is to just have them draw for spots and get rid of time trials.

More seriously, I don't know what we really lose out on, other than something theoretical.  A car capable of winning pole isn't going to not go out in Q3, it just doesn't happen.  You only sit out of Q3 if you think you're going to qualify mid-rear in the top ten anyway; I've never seen someone sit out of Q3 and subsequently win the race, and it's usually the pole car that wins, so it's still a better strategy for a car capable of winning to try to qualify on pole.  We can be upset it's not a ten-car shootout, but it never was at any point.  It always comes down to the one or two or three really fast guys and those are the guys who are running anyway because it still makes more sense to start on the front row than it does to start eighth with an extra set if the car is fast enough to actually win.  A car that would normally finish P7 and is trying to get P5 on strategy, maybe you sit out then, but that's not really taking away from the show, is it?

[Quiet One]

For me, I keep finding qualy sessions more and more boring. I don't know if it is something about the format or just  my old age kicking in...naaah...surely must be about the qualy format!

In any case, its like "yayyy! race weekend!" and then "oh, I have to watch the qualy".

And I HAVE to watch qualy because it is many times cardinal to understand how the race unfolds afterwards. but I rarely look forward to it.

Still, I don't think it is because of the cars sitting in the garages. I didn't enjoy they just burning fuel for entire laps.
The more I think about it the more I enjoyed the one lap/one car format. Even more than the all against all no limits from the past, which was in any case the fairest of them all.

[Rainmaster]

I don't think it's right for a paying fan not to see each driver in Q3 having a go. That's the main issue with it. For TV viewers, maybe the impact to the show is smaller, but the point is it's the result of a flawed system. Forget the argument about the show, it just doesn't make sense whichever way you cut it, that cars should be sitting in garages in qualifying. There is no defence to that. Needs sorting one way or another.

[yurp]

I like strategy - I have absolutely no problem with cars sitting out Q3. It gives us differently prepared cars come race day which gives us more varied strategies with different tyres available and therefore more exciting races. Make everyone run in Q3 and you'd get everyone with pretty much the same tyre situation come Sunday. Then you'd have them all running the same strategy and pitting at roughly the same time with tyre deg affecting them all at the same rate and so a less exciting race. Allowing the teams to run whatever strategy they want means that sometimes sitting out Q3 is the best thing for them to do. Let them. It's the race that matters - that's where the points are won and that's where I want to see varying strategies and entertaining racing.

[LabradoRacer]

If people don't have an issue with drivers cruising around like old ladies on race day to preserve tyres, I don't see why they should have a problem with a still-born Q3.

[LabradoRacer]

yurp, on 18 May 2012 - 02:54 AM, said:

I like strategy - I have absolutely no problem with cars sitting out Q3. It gives us differently prepared cars come race day which gives us more varied strategies with different tyres available and therefore more exciting races. Make everyone run in Q3 and you'd get everyone with pretty much the same tyre situation come Sunday. Then you'd have them all running the same strategy and pitting at roughly the same time with tyre deg affecting them all at the same rate and so a less exciting race. Allowing the teams to run whatever strategy they want means that sometimes sitting out Q3 is the best thing for them to do. Let them. It's the race that matters - that's where the points are won and that's where I want to see varying strategies and entertaining racing.

+1

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer]

Massa, on 17 May 2012 - 02:46 PM, said:

They can't do that.  

They can and they did. When there was the 12 lap qualifying setup this rule applied.

[Massa]

But it makes sense in 12-lap qualifying.  In Q3, you have already advanced to P10.  You can't be sent back to P24 like that.  In a session where every car is still out, then yes, no lap time, for whatever reason, is obviously jack last, just like no lap-time in Q1 where everyone is out is now.  But once you've made it to Q3, you have already put in fast laps, so if you had a mechanical failure or something and couldn't go out in Q3, you shouldn't start P24 because there are only 10 cars in the session, not 24.  You have to eliminate knockout qualifying if you're going to have that kind of penalty.  I hope that made sense to you because it didn't to me in the way I wrote that.

[rodders47]

well to me the only REAL option is to adopt a points scoring system from other formulae.

That is that you get points for your position in qualifying!

Like, Hello, every point earned in this years sort of random of winners would surely be welcome, come the end of the year!!

That would surely spike up the teams to get their cars on the grid for Q3. Hell I love watching Qualy , maybe even more so then the race, because those that are good drivers go "Balls out" , Nice to see IMHO

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer]

No I've thought of a new way of incentivising drivers - those who sit out have to give Bernie a French kiss.....