269 replies to this topic

[Quiet One]

I like the idea of a Singapore race with rain and Grosjean back.

Then again, I am about to get my copy of Borderlands 2 so I am in a rather berserk mood...

And afterwards is Codemaster's F1 2012.

I need more some sex.

[Jean-Pierre]

I thought Argentina was a place where beautiful women are plenty.

[Quiet One]

Jean-Pierre, on 19 September 2012 - 06:57 PM, said:

I thought Argentina was a place where beautiful women are plenty.

Beautiful? Yes.
With standards low enough to be with me? Nope.

Thanks god for internet contacts with people in jail looking for romance.

That is how I met Pabloh20...

[LabradoRacer]

Please stop talking about sexual things. You're hurting my non-religious sentiments. If you don't stop, I'll behead you.

[JHS18]

If you want to talk about sex go to a sex forum then!   [/SuperKimi]

[LabradoRacer]

I request the moderators to ban the immoral sex pest Andres who talks about ugly loose women. Loose as in, both character and...

Off topic, I hope Lewis stays on at Macca.

[AleHop]

Quiet One, on 19 September 2012 - 07:19 PM, said:

With standards low enough to be with me? Nope.

In Spain we call that type of women estrechas.

[dribbler]

1.Too loose = nuts fall off.

2. Paddy Lowe has been told to tell the media that the 2013 car has been built with Lewis in mind.

4..Lewis will stay at McLaren

5. There was no three.

6. Three referred to an inappropriate story about when Andres and Paul spent some time in prison together

8. There is no seven.

[Peeweev]

7 involved dribbler stealing any and all contracts offered to hammilton.

9. (for the record) was Dribbler burning the photos of wen Andres and Paul forced him to join them in prison

[pabloh20]

Quiet One, on 19 September 2012 - 07:19 PM, said:

Beautiful? Yes.
With standards low enough to be with me? Nope.

Thanks god for internet contacts with people in jail looking for romance.

That is how I met Pabloh20...

Ah the good old days

LabradoRacer, on 19 September 2012 - 08:09 PM, said:

I request the moderators to ban the immoral sex pest Andres who talks about ugly loose women. Loose as in, both character and...

Off topic, I hope Lewis stays on at Macca.

Exsqueeze me??  I may be ugly and loose, but I am not a woman.

[pabloh20]

dribbler, on 20 September 2012 - 02:27 AM, said:

1.Too loose = nuts fall off.

2. Paddy Lowe has been told to tell the media that the 2013 car has been built with Lewis in mind.

4..Lewis will stay at McLaren

5. There was no three.

6. Three referred to an inappropriate story about when Andres and Paul spent some time in prison together

8. There is no seven.

You seem adamant that Lewis is staying at Macca.  It would seem to be his best option, though.

You promised never to tell that story.

[Jean-Pierre]

Quiet One, on 19 September 2012 - 07:19 PM, said:

Beautiful? Yes.
With standards low enough to be with me? Nope.

Thanks god for internet contacts with people in jail looking for romance.

That is how I met Pabloh20...

LOL! I did not know you were so funny.

[Jean-Pierre]

LabradoRacer, on 19 September 2012 - 07:22 PM, said:

Please stop talking about sexual things. You're hurting my non-religious sentiments. If you don't stop, I'll behead you.

Good one two in the present madness happening in France and elsewhere..

[Jean-Pierre]

pabloh20, on 20 September 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

You seem adamant that Lewis is staying at Macca.  It would seem to be his best option, though.

You promised never to tell that story.

He is the second best driver and Maaca will never let him go, or they"re plain stupid.

[Insider]

I saw somewhere that there are mutterings in the Stuttgart boardroom over the future of the works F1 team. I've been mentioning this impending development for some time now but it really will have a bearing on which way Hamilton jumps, if at all. If the team becomes a privateer, they will also become as useful as an umbrella in a hurricane as far as XIX is concerned with regard to buffing Lewis's global brand value. If Fuller is doing his job, he will be watching the situation hawkishly. There is clearly only one alternative to McLaren for LH and it would appear that the ringmeisters at Daimler AG may just be about to shut the door. It's probably time that Lewis started healing the wounds at Woking.

[jestaudio]

I would,nt hold your breath, i reckon he may just take a chance if Merc confirm they will be around in the long term, plus big rule changes in 2014, we all know what happened last time around after seeing Macca and Ferrari racing in 18th

[Rainmaster]

Well, a lot of people have observed how well Hammy took this loss, in contrast to how badly he took his Monza win. Does that mean everything is sorted? His comments did not sound like the comments of a man on the way out. I wouldn't be surprised if he accepted Macca's offer after the Italian GP.

[Insider]

If he accepts anything, including an improved offer from Macca, it won't be just yet. XIX think he is certainly worth more than £15m. Alonso is reportedly on £22m and they will be looking for parity. Jenson is on £10m and Woking did not want a massive salary gap between drivers. I understand that, irrespective of people's opinions of JB. Hamilton certainly didn't earn his dosh last year and though there appears to be a major improvement in maturity, he has had his moments of dummy spitting this year too.  He is quicksilver quick but so is Mad Donald, the Hulk and Grosjean, not to mention Perez. I believe that if he's staying at Macca we'll get an announcement this week or next. If he's off to Mercedes, now re-charged by firm board support, he'll not announce that until it's no longer mathematically possible to win the WDC.

[LabradoRacer]

Apparently, Macca has matched Mercedes's offer. Hope they don't match Mercedes's car though.

[Insider]

LabradoRacer, on 25 September 2012 - 12:45 PM, said:

Apparently, Macca has matched Mercedes's offer. Hope they don't match Mercedes's car though.

Yes, please spare us that. I'm trying to track a source but there are stories coming out of the US that Mercedes have spoken to Sutil. Bizarre.

[DPR]

I'm sure Merc and Macca have spoken to lots of drivers (and their representatives). They would be negligent not to have a few options. I still feel uneasy about the XIX group in all this. Their percentage is the highest of all the management companies (allegedly up to 50%).........but that's because they can generate huge revenue streams given the freedom to do so. (freedom Macca simply cannot accommodate).
If Lewis opts to stay with Macca, he may be forced to pay off XIX (as I'm sure they'll pursue him for loss of earnings) ...and that would leave a big hole in his finances, even by F1 standards.
So the REAL choice seems to be.........Macca (good car and a massive real terms pay cut, regardless of what they offer) or Merc (crappy car, but big pay rise)
What would you do?????
He may well have backed himself into a financial corner...........the end winner will be Mr Fuller.

[LabradoRacer]

pabloh20, on 20 September 2012 - 11:29 AM, said:

Exsqueeze me??  I may be ugly and loose, but I am not a woman.

That explains why you don't ever suffer from constipation.

[Massa]

DPR, on 25 September 2012 - 05:07 PM, said:

What would you do?????

If he turns down a higher offer, he's silly.

Hamilton's value may never be this high again.  He has to cash in.  I'd cash in.

The lesser-paying option isn't a "nobler" option; driving for McLaren and driving for Mercedes are both incredibly pointless, incredibly low-contributing (in a societal regard), incredibly self-serving jobs (and there is nothing wrong with that).  There are lesser-paying career changes he could make that might be noble, but switching employers to do the same job?  Nope.  Wanting to selfishly win more races is not a "noble" cause.  Entertaining to us to watch those pursuits, but not noble.

So, cash in.  I'd sleep a lot better at night knowing I left wins on the table than I would knowing I left money on it.  You win the race once and then it's all gone and over.  You earn the money and then it lingers for some great purpose (raising a family, investing in/backing some great cause or idea, contributing to the greater welfare of the world by participating in the economy, whatever) or for some ignorant, foolish waste (but at the same time, blowing all your money on stupid things is creating jobs for people who sell, market, produce, etc. stupid things so you can feel good about what you're doing ), but either way, it's there after you earn it and used how you want it to be.  If I had the choice of either breaking every record Michael Schumacher set or earning more money than any other F1 driver before me, I'd take the latter without hesitation.  Your children can't inherit your Grand Prix wins when you're gone...your pole positions aren't funding research grants...your fastest laps aren't lifting people out of poverty...but every day private parties' money contributes to those things...so you're selfish if you don't maximize income because your expenditures and investments and tax payments do good things.

A driver should care about winning when he/she is racing.  But negotiating contracts?  F1's temporary and outside of one's own ego, wins are pretty hollow.

(Well, you asked what I'd do... )

[Rainmaster]

I'd go for glory rather than money. Besides, going for the better option results wise (Mclaren) will probably result in earning more long term anyway. You don't have much of a Hamilton "brand" if he's not winning any races. It's also true that a Mclaren salary is still plenty enough to do everything you want, e.g. buy a yacht, get those cool Dr.Dre Beats headphones, raise a family, etc (that list does go in order of priority, fyi).

So if it were me I would pretend I was seriously interested in joining another team and drive extremely well to underline my value, then Mclaren would offer me an improved deal financially whilst also providing more chance of success. Actually, maybe Lewis isn't as dumb as we think?

[Quiet One]

Massa, on 25 September 2012 - 08:57 PM, said:

If he turns down a higher offer, he's silly.

Hamilton's value may never be this high again.  He has to cash in.  I'd cash in.

The lesser-paying option isn't a "nobler" option; driving for McLaren and driving for Mercedes are both incredibly pointless, incredibly low-contributing (in a societal regard), incredibly self-serving jobs (and there is nothing wrong with that).  There are lesser-paying career changes he could make that might be noble, but switching employers to do the same job?  Nope.  Wanting to selfishly win more races is not a "noble" cause.  Entertaining to us to watch those pursuits, but not noble.

So, cash in.  I'd sleep a lot better at night knowing I left wins on the table than I would knowing I left money on it.  You win the race once and then it's all gone and over.  You earn the money and then it lingers for some great purpose (raising a family, investing in/backing some great cause or idea, contributing to the greater welfare of the world by participating in the economy, whatever) or for some ignorant, foolish waste (but at the same time, blowing all your money on stupid things is creating jobs for people who sell, market, produce, etc. stupid things so you can feel good about what you're doing ), but either way, it's there after you earn it and used how you want it to be.  If I had the choice of either breaking every record Michael Schumacher set or earning more money than any other F1 driver before me, I'd take the latter without hesitation.  Your children can't inherit your Grand Prix wins when you're gone...your pole positions aren't funding research grants...your fastest laps aren't lifting people out of poverty...but every day private parties' money contributes to those things...so you're selfish if you don't maximize income because your expenditures and investments and tax payments do good things.

A driver should care about winning when he/she is racing.  But negotiating contracts?  F1's temporary and outside of one's own ego, wins are pretty hollow.

(Well, you asked what I'd do... )

Except you won't.

Ted Turner once said "Life is a game. Money is how we keep score". Granted, there are few a##holes bigger than Turner, but even if that does not apply to life in general, it does apply to work (in general). Past the level of subsistance (the level I am still sadly stuck), money is not anymore a means of living, but a symbolic retribution and recognition from your work by the people that pays you.
Is it idiotic, and totally inefficient way in a world were the vast majority does not earn enough to eat? Certainly, but that's capitalism (and communism as well!) for you. I do not endorse this way of thinking but "it is what it is"

Lewis, being no Che Guevara, works under that same logic, IMHO. So, in his eyes, being forced to take a pay cut means that they don't consider him the Número Uno anymore (not that they ever did, McLaren has no number one never no no no I swear they are so fair!) and also, that they rate him half as much as Alonso and (I guess this hurts even more) Massa are being considered right now.

Is not about money as means of living. Is money as a measure of his achievements. None of them, not even the less paid, must have any complaints about money not being enough to pay their plumber's bill. It's about "hey...how come Alonso earns 20 gazillion dollars a second and I earn only 1?" Because we need to rebuild your car every other weekend and you can't tell your brake from your gas, Nelsinho...now get lost...crash into a wall for all I care!" And so he did

This is my own view on Lewis view, of course. It does not mean it is the actual truth, but it is better than your view, Eric, simply because I am more mature and I HAVE 10,000 POSTS AND YOU DON'T NEENER NEENER!!!

There.

[LabradoRacer]

Massa, on 25 September 2012 - 08:57 PM, said:

If he turns down a higher offer, he's silly.

Hamilton's value may never be this high again.  He has to cash in.  I'd cash in.

The lesser-paying option isn't a "nobler" option; driving for McLaren and driving for Mercedes are both incredibly pointless, incredibly low-contributing (in a societal regard), incredibly self-serving jobs (and there is nothing wrong with that).  There are lesser-paying career changes he could make that might be noble, but switching employers to do the same job?  Nope.  Wanting to selfishly win more races is not a "noble" cause.  Entertaining to us to watch those pursuits, but not noble.

So, cash in.  I'd sleep a lot better at night knowing I left wins on the table than I would knowing I left money on it.  You win the race once and then it's all gone and over.  You earn the money and then it lingers for some great purpose (raising a family, investing in/backing some great cause or idea, contributing to the greater welfare of the world by participating in the economy, whatever) or for some ignorant, foolish waste (but at the same time, blowing all your money on stupid things is creating jobs for people who sell, market, produce, etc. stupid things so you can feel good about what you're doing ), but either way, it's there after you earn it and used how you want it to be.  If I had the choice of either breaking every record Michael Schumacher set or earning more money than any other F1 driver before me, I'd take the latter without hesitation.  Your children can't inherit your Grand Prix wins when you're gone...your pole positions aren't funding research grants...your fastest laps aren't lifting people out of poverty...but every day private parties' money contributes to those things...so you're selfish if you don't maximize income because your expenditures and investments and tax payments do good things.

A driver should care about winning when he/she is racing.  But negotiating contracts?  F1's temporary and outside of one's own ego, wins are pretty hollow.

(Well, you asked what I'd do... )

Going with a lesser paying but champion team will earn you more money via endorsements & stuff.

[Insider]

DPR, on 25 September 2012 - 05:07 PM, said:

I'm sure Merc and Macca have spoken to lots of drivers (and their representatives). They would be negligent not to have a few options. I still feel uneasy about the XIX group in all this. Their percentage is the highest of all the management companies (allegedly up to 50%).........but that's because they can generate huge revenue streams given the freedom to do so. (freedom Macca simply cannot accommodate).
If Lewis opts to stay with Macca, he may be forced to pay off XIX (as I'm sure they'll pursue him for loss of earnings) ...and that would leave a big hole in his finances, even by F1 standards.
So the REAL choice seems to be.........Macca (good car and a massive real terms pay cut, regardless of what they offer) or Merc (crappy car, but big pay rise)
What would you do?????
He may well have backed himself into a financial corner...........the end winner will be Mr Fuller.

I couldn't have put it better. It's about as bad as record deals got in the 50s. Fuller is a leech.

[JHS18]

Massa, on 25 September 2012 - 08:57 PM, said:

If he turns down a higher offer, he's silly.

Hamilton's value may never be this high again.  He has to cash in.  I'd cash in.

The lesser-paying option isn't a "nobler" option; driving for McLaren and driving for Mercedes are both incredibly pointless, incredibly low-contributing (in a societal regard), incredibly self-serving jobs (and there is nothing wrong with that).  There are lesser-paying career changes he could make that might be noble, but switching employers to do the same job?  Nope.  Wanting to selfishly win more races is not a "noble" cause.  Entertaining to us to watch those pursuits, but not noble.

So, cash in.  I'd sleep a lot better at night knowing I left wins on the table than I would knowing I left money on it.  You win the race once and then it's all gone and over.  You earn the money and then it lingers for some great purpose (raising a family, investing in/backing some great cause or idea, contributing to the greater welfare of the world by participating in the economy, whatever) or for some ignorant, foolish waste (but at the same time, blowing all your money on stupid things is creating jobs for people who sell, market, produce, etc. stupid things so you can feel good about what you're doing ), but either way, it's there after you earn it and used how you want it to be.  If I had the choice of either breaking every record Michael Schumacher set or earning more money than any other F1 driver before me, I'd take the latter without hesitation.  Your children can't inherit your Grand Prix wins when you're gone...your pole positions aren't funding research grants...your fastest laps aren't lifting people out of poverty...but every day private parties' money contributes to those things...so you're selfish if you don't maximize income because your expenditures and investments and tax payments do good things.

A driver should care about winning when he/she is racing.  But negotiating contracts?  F1's temporary and outside of one's own ego, wins are pretty hollow.

(Well, you asked what I'd do... )

If money was that important, I think Hamilton would do something other than racing in F1, because let's be honest, there are several professions that offer a safer life and would earn you more money than being an F1 driver does.

Hamilton's probably got enough money from his already short time in F1 to last him well for the rest of his life - chasing big pay checks over performance just looks bad when you're in a world like Formula One.

I remember one driver (can't recall who it was off the top of my head, so I'll avoid attributing it to anyone for now in case it is wrong) who said that money is just a by-product of the sport/business they're all in. Look at Jenson Button, I still vividly recall his first time on Top Gear before he'd even won his first race when Clarkson asked whether he'd jack the Monte Carlo lifestyle, the money and everything that went with it in to get that first win. Jenson said he would 100%, and later said that "having so many million in the bank isn't going to excite my grandchildren - it is better to say you are the best in the world at something."

I guess that's just the mentality most drivers have. They're not going to turn down the money they earn, but likewise it isn't why they all started racing in the first place.

I think it was telling that Hamilton himself said a few months ago about how keeping the trophies would be an important area in negotiating a contract. So yes, whilst you're true that once you win it is already in the past, it still does mean something to these guys.

Saying that, I doubt any of us can pretend to understand what goes on in an F1's drivers mind, otherwise I suspect most people on this forum would be a Formula One driver already.

Edited by JHS18, 25 September 2012 - 11:26 PM.

[Massa]

LabradoRacer, on 25 September 2012 - 10:02 PM, said:

Going with a lesser paying but champion team will earn you more money via endorsements & stuff.

It could.  It doesn't guarantee you win, and it doesn't guarantee that winning leads to endorsements or projects a better image.  He hasn't exactly been the dominator at McLaren he was supposed to be, and he will always be a popular driver connecting with a good demographic.  I understand the argument that you have a higher capacity to earn income post-F1 if you were a winner, but in a sport with short careers, high risk, and changing regulations on the horizon, I'd take the money.

I still expect Hamilton and McLaren to work out a deal, though, for what it's worth, which isn't much, but is probably worth more than my personal views on money and how greed doesn't exist and how morality doesn't exist either and how selflessness doesn't exist either and how the U.S. needs to get out of the 1970s in terms of globalization and just accept we aren't a country that makes stereos, cars, and plastic toys anymore but have the education system of one that isn't qualified to do much else and blah blah blah.  There's another forum for teenagers who think they know everything about everything and I'm sure it's populated by all the other students I've taken watered-down seminar classes filled with idealist half-truths and partial-lies in university.

But I have to stick with what I said months ago, which was that the top teams would go unchanged, simply because that feels right.

[Massa]

JHS18, on 25 September 2012 - 11:20 PM, said:

If money was that important, I think Hamilton would do something other than racing in F1, because let's be honest, there are several professions that offer a safer life and would earn you more money than being an F1 driver does.

Hamilton's probably got enough money from his already short time in F1 to last him well for the rest of his life - chasing big pay checks over performance just looks bad when you're in a world like Formula One.

I remember one driver (can't recall who it was off the top of my head, so I'll avoid attributing it to anyone for now in case it is wrong) who said that money is just a by-product of the sport/business they're all in. Look at Jenson Button, I still vividly recall his first time on Top Gear before he'd even won his first race when Clarkson asked whether he'd jack the Monte Carlo lifestyle, the money and everything that went with it to get that first win. Jenson said he would 100%, and later said that "having so many million in the bank isn't going to excite my grandchildren - it is better to say you are the best in the world at something."

I guess that's just the mentality most drivers have. They're not going to turn down the money they earn, but likewise it isn't why they all started racing in the first place.

Saying that, I doubt any of us can pretend to understand what goes on in an F1's drivers mind, otherwise I suspect most people on this forum would be a Formula One driver already.

I have no idea what Hamilton thinks; you're correct.  But I don't personally agree with anyone in the profession of "Formula One driver" who is not going after guaranteed money in a job where few things are probable and careers are short.  My disagreement doesn't mean anything to anyone and I know that, but I still wouldn't agree if he signed for a team offering him less than any other team was.  If Ferrari offered $20,000,000 to be Alonso's clear-cut number two and McLaren offered me $19,999,999 to be their clear-cut leader, I'd sign with Ferrari.  And as soon as my grandchildren gave up listening to me blabber about how great of a driver I was in some sport that's so radically altered or even obsolete by the time I can tell them about it, I'd get their attention back by taking that extra $1 per year and splitting amongst them.

But you know how much Hamilton's thinking of prospective grandchildren right now?  I'm willing to bet not at all.

(And therefore he's wrong).