164 replies to this topic

[cavallino]

UrKo, on Sep 10 2006, 04:25 AM, said:

Thank you....i really didnt know that....     

I feel so educated now....     
Read post #26..... i guess you also dont see very well....or were you too impatient and just had to post a reply and not read posts.....     
I guess every1 must yield to FM and MS, because how can Ferrari win both titles if they wont yield.

Thee is absolutely nothing wrong with making mistakes, but the belligerence and abuse is unnecessary. As this is an unmoderated forum, I simply treat people the same way they treat me.

[maia]

UrKo, you can spare the rhetoric.This rule has been enforced before in similar situations like I've said.If the stewards pushed down Alonso, they have only done what has been done in many other quali sessions this year.The car not on the fast lap has to yeild.I feel sorry for Alonso because he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time;he could not slow down to let Massa through because he himself was trying to beat the clock to get in his fast lap.

[stopkidding]

UrKo, on Sep 9 2006, 11:06 AM, said:

And to answer you....parabolica is in S2.....remember it's just a few 100m after he variante ascari.

you have little clue about what you are saying.

after my initial reaction i went read the stewards decision and agree that there might have been some unintentional blocking by Alonso. It wasn't aparent, but by the end of that lap Massa was almost at the back of Alonso, and close enough to have his lap time affected in parabolica.

the decision is made, i think its unfair, but most think not, thats F1, and the race got a little more interesting now....This would the first time alonso would have to charge from mid pack in Dry (the rain changed things in hungary). lets see what the world champ has got.

My guess,

Schumi, Kimi, Massa for 1-2-3 and Alonso will finish 5th.

Edited by stopkidding, 09 September 2006 - 06:33 PM.

[UrKo]

cavallino, on Sep 9 2006, 08:28 PM, said:

Thee is absolutely nothing wrong with making mistakes, but the belligerence and abuse is unnecessary. As this is an unmoderated forum, I simply treat people the same way they treat me.

Fair enough....

All cool.....

stopkidding, on Sep 9 2006, 08:32 PM, said:

you have little clue about what you are saying.

Like i said before....read post #26....my mistake i mixed the Sectors......i admit it....

stopkidding, on Sep 9 2006, 08:32 PM, said:

This would the first time alonso would have to charge from mid pack in Dry (the rain changed things in hungary). lets see what the world champ has got.

My guess,

Well im not FA fan but still i think that the champ has shown to all here that he knows how to drive ( wet and dry ).

stopkidding, on Sep 9 2006, 08:32 PM, said:

Schumi, Kimi, Massa for 1-2-3 and Alonso will finish 5th.

I hope you're wrong.....i must say I would really enjoy to see Ferraris DNF in Monza....

maia, on Sep 9 2006, 08:31 PM, said:

UrKo, you can spare the rhetoric.This rule has been enforced before in similar situations like I've said.If the stewards pushed down Alonso, they have only done what has been done in many other quali sessions this year.The car not on the fast lap has to yeild.I feel sorry for Alonso because he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time;he could not slow down to let Massa through because he himself was trying to beat the clock to get in his fast lap.

Sorry to say but double standards are common thing in F1....usually in Ferari favour.

FA was ahead more than enough....FM just said that so that they could punish FA...Massa would never get the pole today....

Edited by UrKo, 09 September 2006 - 06:33 PM.

[Player(1)]

Sudarshan the shumi fan, on Sep 9 2006, 06:57 PM, said:

Anyways all this si common in F1, we gotto to accept them.

Yep Renault and Alonso did an amazing job but got caught out on a technicality.

I do wonder though...did Massa cross the line behind Alonso or go into the pits? If he crossed the line did he get there before the session ended?

[UrKo]

Player(1), on Sep 9 2006, 08:57 PM, said:

Yep Renault and Alonso did an amazing job but got caught out on a technicality.

I do wonder though...did Massa cross the line behind Alonso or go into the pits? If he crossed the line did he get there before the session ended?

He crossed the line, not sure if before the session ended....y?

Edited by UrKo, 09 September 2006 - 06:59 PM.

[Player(1)]

UrKo, on Sep 9 2006, 07:59 PM, said:

He crossed the line, not sure if before the session ended....y?

If he didnt get there before the end of the session that's atleast 2 seconds behind Alonso...a fair amount anyone would admit. I bet we'll see car's following each other through the final turn much closer tomorrow then Massa attempted.
I've no doubt Massa backed off a bit to reinforce their claim. Clever way to force a foul on the other team, i'm sure most team's would think of it in time but few would actually do it.

[wasin]

Here you have the whole lap. As you can see, Massa is not dirturbed by Alonso. Alonso is very far away from Massa.

http://smg.photobuck...06_Q3_Massa.flv

[Player(1)]

wasin, on Sep 9 2006, 08:40 PM, said:

Here you have the whole lap. As you can see, Massa is not dirturbed by Alonso. Alonso is very far away from Massa.

http://smg.photobuck...06_Q3_Massa.flv

Post of the millenium! great job, any chance you can stick it on youtube?

[Chris Strange]

Go Michael go  

[c21]

Chris Strange, on Sep 9 2006, 07:57 PM, said:

Go Michael go  

I dont think that Massa was blocked, but on the other hand, Im not surprised there has been a penalty imposed on Alonso.

Its all a ploy on someones part.




PS non related. To Chris Strange. I was wondering where in Switzerland do you live?

If you dont mind the question.

[schumi13]

Chris Strange, on Sep 9 2006, 08:57 PM, said:

Go Michael go  

Exactly you boring guys obviously don't want to see a title showdown...

[Geordie]

I watched this live and never once thought that Alonso had to get out of the way. This video clip only confirms. Bad call !!

I used to really dislike Alonso but I find myself cheering him on. ( to my surprise )
Good luck FA!!  

[wasin]

Someone has already uploaded the video to youtube. Here you have the link

[Player(1)]

I've changed my mind in light of that video evidence and the always wise words of Pat Symonds

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/54386

Quote

Formula One has become too 'politically correct' and the stewards are making inconsistent judgements, a furious Pat Symonds said this evening following the decision to penalise Fernando Alonso and demote him to 10th place on the grid.

The Spaniard had his three fastest laps of the final session in qualifying removed by the stewards, who said he had impeded Ferrari's Felipe Massa in the session today. As a result, Alonso has been demoted from fifth to 10th.

Yet Renault's director of engineering Symonds firmly believes Alonso did not impede the Brazilian, and in fact helped him gain time by getting a tow from the Renault car.

"I don't understand the penalty, because we don't feel we impeded him," Symonds said. "This is a circuit where we are always trying to get a tow - especially in qualifying. Massa was 100 metres behind Alonso, so he got a nice tow, and I don't see it as a hindrance.

"I looked at Ferrari's telemetry, and [Massa] gained time on the back straight and was quicker into Parabolica than before. He lifted in the middle of the corner. To me, it looked like a mistake but he claimed he was losing downforce."

But Symonds was particularly vocal about the influx of penalties handed out this season for blocking in qualifying, and warned that Formula One is stepping away from its core appeal as a racing series.

"It seems that we have forgotten what qualifying was like up until 2003, when half the field complained of traffic," the Briton said. "We seem to have forgotten what racing is about.

"We are so politically correct now, and I don't know what is coming next. Maybe indicators, to see whether drivers want to go left or right?"

He further criticised the stewards' inconsistency, claiming rivals Ferrari have been getting away unpunished with similar infringements.

"It's difficult to fight like this," he stated, "when you see Ferrari changing direction as many times as they wanted before the first corner in Turkey and nothing happens, and then we get penalised like this."

Symonds also stated that Alonso could well have won from fifth place tomorrow, but the penalty has vastly diminished their chances of victory, at such a crucial stage of the championship.

"We had a genuine winning strategy staring from fifth, and it will be a lot harder from 10th," Symonds said.

"Not only because it is so hard to overtake, but because we are in the middle of the pack and a lot happens there on the first lap."

The video/audio back's that up for me. If it was a race Alonso wouldnt even be getting blue flags if Massa was coming to lap him.

[jemstride]

UrKo, on Sep 9 2006, 07:02 PM, said:

He shouldnt receive any penalt at all!
Because mistakes that MS did were so obvious that they had to give him the penalty...the rpessure was huge.

Just remember Monaco......FIA needed till midnight to give the penalty to MS...... 10 hours

Tell when did FIA decided 10 hours for other drivers???

And also in Hungary....they needed a lot more time to decide to give him the same penlaty.....

So yes.....FIA works for Ferrari and they support Ferrari.

Not really strong evidence to come to your conclusion, as those incidents were all completely different.
Alonso was on an out-lap so had to give way to massa

[schumi13]

jemstride, on Sep 9 2006, 09:16 PM, said:

Not really strong evidence to come to your conclusion, as those incidents were all completely different.
Alonso was on an out-lap so had to give way to massa

Are we sure it was that lap or the lap after they crossed the line because both made it through to do another lap? Alonso was quick though on his lap that was provisionally 5th until the penalty struck him down.

[Ruffs]

Im not an Alonso fan but I think the penalty was unfair, 0.4 at parabolica sounds a bit too much for me.
Massa is just a brick in the Ferrari Schumi game.
well well
Lets hope we all get a entertaining race tomorrow!

[AutoRacer5]

I think Alonso should have moved over on the final straight and let Massa through. Alonso should have paid more attention when he was following MS to the first chicane. Michael will win, Massa will be second, Kimi will be third. This will be a near repeat of Hockenheim.

[stopkidding]

wasin, on Sep 9 2006, 12:40 PM, said:

Here you have the whole lap. As you can see, Massa is not dirturbed by Alonso. Alonso is very far away from Massa.

http://smg.photobuck...06_Q3_Massa.flv

exactly, i may be a ferrari fan, but bulls##t is bulls##t. if anything, massa might have gotten a good tow on the start finish straight...

this penalty is bulls##t...

[Blitzkrieg]

cant wait till tommorows race

[Schumikonen]

Player(1), on Sep 9 2006, 03:50 PM, said:

Post of the millenium! great job, any chance you can stick it on youtube?

I can tell about this that the incr view is not a good one to see how far hte car infront really is, usually looks like is a litlle far from what really is. Another thing a can tell you is that Massa was on a flying lap while Alonso was on his out lap, Massa was going down the straight and Alonso was coming out of the pits with a lot less speed than Massa, and there are something that you didn't see on that video is what lap is that, they were together in Alonso's out lap and during Alonso's flying lap in that video you could see that the gap weas not more than two seconds so Massa had another chance too.

We had to get a video with both laps to make a fear judgement, I saw the qualifying session on Speed and i can tell you that I didn,t see like Alonso was blocking Massa but we had to keep in mind that Massa had been faster all weekend and last week test too, so is not a surprise that he was faster than Alonso during that lap, I didn't see Alonso getting away from Massa and his car had some body damage so I think that is posible that Alonso without any other intention than getting to the start line in time, could had blocked Massa maybe in his out lap, but he had no other choice than doing that, everybody would do the same if he yielded to Massa he would not had another chance to get a better starting position, that's the way I see it, maybe he did without any intention, maybe is not a fear penalty but they have their rules and they have a lot more information than us.

[ipaneda]

Agree with the previous comment, if Alonso yields to Massa, time is out for him to attempt a fast lap, so he had no real choice. And, btw, on the issue of fairness, I am still wating for a penalty on Schumi for his failure to yield to De la Rosa in Hungary....

[tifosi too!]

ipaneda, on Sep 10 2006, 02:21 AM, said:

Agree with the previous comment, if Alonso yields to Massa, time is out for him to attempt a fast lap, so he had no real choice. And, btw, on the issue of fairness, I am still wating for a penalty on Schumi for his failure to yield to De la Rosa in Hungary....

Do you really think that??They were fighting for position in the race...!As for the penalty, well i guess it was handed out for some reason.The in-car camera always provides a "wrong" distance evaluation.If you watch the race tomorrow and how things look in/out of car, its very easy to see.Also there is the downforce issue with FA not allowing the aero on FM's car to work properly and this is qualifying not the race.If FM was simply losing grip because FA wouldn't get out of the way then it is ruining his lap time.Poor Alonso...

Go Schumi  

[stopkidding]

ipaneda, on Sep 9 2006, 04:21 PM, said:

Agree with the previous comment, if Alonso yields to Massa, time is out for him to attempt a fast lap, so he had no real choice. And, btw, on the issue of fairness, I am still wating for a penalty on Schumi for his failure to yield to De la Rosa in Hungary....

me too, he cut across the chicane and maintained position after that, which is illegal. i remember that the drivers were furious at michael at the GPDA meeting at turkey.....

i think michael is getting senile with age. where is that little cute chin boy we once knew?  

Edited by stopkidding, 10 September 2006 - 12:44 AM.

[Blitzkrieg]

stopkidding, on Sep 10 2006, 12:43 AM, said:

me too, he cut across the chicane and maintained position after that, which is illegal. i remember that the drivers were furious at michael at the GPDA meeting at turkey.....

i think michael is getting senile with age. where is that little cute chin boy we once knew?  

and then let go..

Are you a Renault fan disguised as a Tifosi!?!?

[cavallino]

Player(1), on Sep 10 2006, 04:57 AM, said:

I do wonder though...did Massa cross the line behind Alonso or go into the pits?

Christ would you bother to find out the most basic facts before posting? Why on earth would Massa go into the pits if he is setting a hot lap?

Player(1), on Sep 10 2006, 05:11 AM, said:

If he didnt get there before the end of the session that's atleast 2 seconds behind Alonso

He did.

stopkidding, on Sep 10 2006, 10:43 AM, said:

me too, he cut across the chicane and maintained position after that, which is illegal. i remember that the drivers were furious at michael at the GPDA meeting at turkey.....

No it's not, did you watch Webber and Alonso at Monaco last year?



Alonso ignored the chicane for no reason, Michael had to go off track because Pedro left no room for him.

Think for yourself rather than just reading opinions off rubbish news sites.

[spitfire]

CAV you offensive ignorant git, leave Christ out of this.

Here is the bottom line. The FIA will do whatever it takes to help nudge MS and Ferrari toward the championship. Witness the "tire rule changes" a few years ago when Bridgestone shod Ferrari could not keep up.

Ultimate end of this is that Formula one is becoming nothing more than a high speed, boring soap opera. It sure ain't about the racing anymore!

[Autumnpuma]

This is just the sort of behaviour I'd have expected from the Monza stewards. Pathetic.

[ecapdeville]

I cant believe that Fiarrari fans could be happy with this, its to sad...like puma said is pathetic... but be happy, you red fans should be proud.