Honda Rescued!

[Medilloni 6]

Or:

Bernest sees the sense in helping Team Brackers get back on the grid right now. His crystal balls see the strong possibility of two other manufacturers going weak at the knees now, and are iffy for next year, so he needs to feather his nest ready for next year, keeping as many sponsored (ie non-manufacturer) teams there as possible.

Plus, anyone he helps to stay or get on the grid should (maybe) be beholding to him, so he gets more of a say when contracts are to be renewed in 2012 (not sure of the date...) for shares of revenue - manufacturers being his thorn in the side for more dosh.

Lastly.... if the ex Honda outfit isn't a good enough deal for someone now, it'll be far less of a good deal in another year with a year of not competing.

[monza gorilla 1]

Or:

Bernest sees the sense in helping Team Brackers get back on the grid right now. His crystal balls see the strong possibility of two other manufacturers going weak at the knees now, and are iffy for next year, so he needs to feather his nest ready for next year, keeping as many sponsored (ie non-manufacturer) teams there as possible.

Plus, anyone he helps to stay or get on the grid should (maybe) be beholding to him, so he gets more of a say when contracts are to be renewed in 2012 (not sure of the date...) for shares of revenue - manufacturers being his thorn in the side for more dosh.

Lastly.... if the ex Honda outfit isn't a good enough deal for someone now, it'll be far less of a good deal in another year with a year of not competing.

Yup. Probably. Except for the last bit. That's pukka gen.

[Fed up 0]

Lastly.... if the ex Honda outfit isn't a good enough deal for someone now, it'll be far less of a good deal in another year with a year of not competing.

IMHO there is more value in allowing the 'team' to go under, to then be resurrected in a different guise in 2010. Purchasing the team now will mean taking on the project as a going concern. It is better to pick up what one can from he ashes of the team rather than taking it as a whole, regardless of the sweetners Honda are offering.

Just my view

[The Rumble Strip 0]

I would agree.

How do we know anybody would want to buy in 2010 anyway.

[Insider 0]

IMHO there is more value in allowing the 'team' to go under, to then be resurrected in a different guise in 2010. Purchasing the team now will mean taking on the project as a going concern. It is better to pick up what one can from he ashes of the team rather than taking it as a whole, regardless of the sweetners Honda are offering.

Just my view

I don't see the business sense in that. The 09 entry is paid up and so is the lease on the premises - at least for the next four years. There is a car on the line and the best technical director and strategist in the business to be had. Let it go under and you lose irreplaceable staff, Brawn disappears into the sunset and the mountain gets harder to climb. Certainly, far too daunting a prospect for a 'start-up' like Hyundai. According to a Red Bull-friendly rag, Bourdais will probably be confirmed in the second STR seat tomorrow which probably means JB is super-confident there is indeed a ride for him at Brackley this year. Something's shaking over there - it's all gone too quiet for me. Bernie got his 'brownie' points nomination in nice and early today. I would venture there will be an announcement very, very soon and that the team is going racing this year.

[Fed up 0]

I don't see the business sense in that. The 09 entry is paid up and so is the lease on the premises - at least for the next four years. There is a car on the line and the best technical director and strategist in the business to be had. Let it go under and you lose irreplaceable staff, Brawn disappears into the sunset and the mountain gets harder to climb. Certainly, far too daunting a prospect for a 'start-up' like Hyundai. According to a Red Bull-friendly rag, Bourdais will probably be confirmed in the second STR seat tomorrow which probably means JB is super-confident there is indeed a ride for him at Brackley this year. Something's shaking over there - it's all gone too quiet for me. Bernie got his 'brownie' points nomination in nice and early today. I would venture there will be an announcement very, very soon and that the team is going racing this year.

If you take emotion out of the decison making process it doesn't make sense taking over the team at this late stage. The current regs prohibit testing during the season, so Hyundai or whoever will just make it to the grid with a car that will have limited testing mileage and little prospect of developing the car over the course of the season. Much better to ear mark key staff for the new 'project' and spend the next year testing the car and planning for 2010. They would be much more effective in 2010 if they spent 2009 preparing rather than spend 2009 way behind the rest of the grid.

[monza gorilla 1]

And the money to do that comes from?

[Insider 0]

And the money to do that comes from?

Precisely. I expect the 'let 2009 go' scenario presumes that an incoming owner would finance a 'development' year, away from racing prior to a re-launch. The downside of that is, it takes the 'racing' team out of the front line for a season, [in itself, a demotivating element, I feel] and leaves them clueless with regard to first-hand experience of the vagaries of the new regs. The 'development' phase would surely produce more coherent data if it was conducted in the field, as it were. No?

[The Rumble Strip 0]

What would the advantage of lending Button to Toro Rosso be for Honda.

He might not want to come back.

[Insider 0]

What would the advantage of lending Button to Toro Rosso be for Honda.

He might not want to come back.

He races this year, even if they don't? They wouldn''t want him to miss out a season and get ring rusty. It was a scenario I proposed some time back when everything was up in the air but I don't think it's relevant now. As I have said today, I believe a 2009 hiatus for the team would leave them way off the pace for 2010. F1 is like that. Also, I don't believe Button would have left it this late to make the switch. Do you? The other side of the coin is, why have STR left it so long to confirm the second seat. All the signs were that they would go with Bourdais today. Of course, Button is virtually a free agent with

[The Rumble Strip 0]

I think I agree.

It would seem odd that Button would get forced out, when worse drivers keep a seat.

[Insider 0]

I hate to say this but things don't look good over at Brackley. I believed the team would pull something out the hat this week but I fear their failure to do so is probably a firm signal that the game is up. What I am hearing is that several people cleared their desks on Friday. As Honda's self-imposed deadline of the 31st Jan fast approaches, the team remains silent. There is no good reason for that. If there was a genuine buyer in the wings, a deal could and would have been announced by now. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever for the team or a suitor to take this down to the wire - if, in fact, that is what is going on. I don't believe there is a buyer and come the 31st, Honda will shut the operation down for good. Though Bourdais still appears on the STR web site, he has not been testing and there is still no official announcement from the team about their second driver. I believe this fact to be a clear sign that STR are waiting for Jan 31st too - and Mr Jenson Button.

[Fed up 0]

Precisely. I expect the 'let 2009 go' scenario presumes that an incoming owner would finance a 'development' year, away from racing prior to a re-launch. The downside of that is, it takes the 'racing' team out of the front line for a season, [in itself, a demotivating element, I feel] and leaves them clueless with regard to first-hand experience of the vagaries of the new regs. The 'development' phase would surely produce more coherent data if it was conducted in the field, as it were. No?

The BAR team was announced a year ahead - not with much success, but it just shows that it can be done. I'm not convinced that if a buyer is not found for 2009 that that will be the end of the infrastructure and key personnel that is currently part of the Honda operation. In 2010 there will be $5.5m customer engines and there are no major changes in regs mooted or scheduled, so deferring entry for a year is win win IMHO.

Using the season as a development year doesn't make sense and, it could be argued, is bad publicity for the team and it's sponsors as the car will likely be well off the pace - failure is not good publicity.

As for JB, I do hope he gets the STR drive and is finally able to prove what he can do in a half decent car. I don't see Buemi being a pushover mind.

[Insider 0]

The BAR team was announced a year ahead - not with much success, but it just shows that it can be done. I'm not convinced that if a buyer is not found for 2009 that that will be the end of the infrastructure and key personnel that is currently part of the Honda operation. In 2010 there will be $5.5m customer engines and there are no major changes in regs mooted or scheduled, so deferring entry for a year is win win IMHO.

Using the season as a development year doesn't make sense and, it could be argued, is bad publicity for the team and it's sponsors as the car will likely be well off the pace - failure is not good publicity.

As for JB, I do hope he gets the STR drive and is finally able to prove what he can do in a half decent car. I don't see Buemi being a pushover mind.

You may be right but it certainly heightens the investment risk and the package would have to be bombproof for key personnel like Brawn to stay. I have to say that my personal priority is to see Jens driving this year. It would be great to see him in a powerful car that stays on the road and Buemi will certainly keep him honest.

[The Rumble Strip 0]

I agree with that, although the loss of a team is not good.

I actually think STR will struggle a bit this year, without Berger and Vettel at the helm.

[Rainmaster 7]

I agree with that, although the loss of a team is not good.

I actually think STR will struggle a bit this year, without Berger and Vettel at the helm.

Same here. I don't see the STR being as competitive, big rule changes hurt small teams. They will need a good development driver like Vettel must have been to push them forward.

[Max Mosley 2]

You're winding me up, there. They just improved when they brought out the new car mid-season.

[The Rumble Strip 0]

That's true but the rule changes mean they have to start all over again and should the STR driver line up be Sato and Beumi, then to score regular points seems a long shot to me.

Button, of course, would help in that regard.

[Rainmaster 7]

You're winding me up, there. They just improved when they brought out the new car mid-season.

Both things are true. The new car was much better and Vettel liked the handling, which allowed him to drive rather well and find some good setups.

[Max Mosley 2]

Vettel did drive very well but I doubt he pushed the team forward technically more than many of the drivers he beat would have done. That would be asking a lot for someone so inexperienced and imho it's much more likely that the improvement came from introducing the new car mid-season and gradual improvement in Vettel's own performance over the year.

[The Rumble Strip 0]

I'm not sure Bourdais improved as a result of the new car though.

[Fed up 0]

The stats show that STR scored 80/90% of their points in wet races - their car was particularly strong in high downforce configurations.

[The Rumble Strip 0]

Which was pretty much every race from mid season as I recall.

[Max Mosley 2]

The stats show that STR scored 80/90% of their points in wet races - their car was particularly strong in high downforce configurations.

Yeah and that might be a good strategy for mid-field teams to adopt in future. They could design their car to be perfect in wet weather running and hire a good wet weather driver. Instead of getting a string of 9th place finishes all season they might score more points overall by just trying to do well in a few races.

[Rainmaster 7]

Vettel did drive very well but I doubt he pushed the team forward technically more than many of the drivers he beat would have done. That would be asking a lot for someone so inexperienced and imho it's much more likely that the improvement came from introducing the new car mid-season and gradual improvement in Vettel's own performance over the year.

Yeah, I pretty much agree actually. I still think he drove the car better than a lot of the other guys would have and lead the team quite well.

We'll see how good he is at Red Bull.