Wez

Deliberate Accidents In F1

25 posts in this topic

So, I'd love to know how good old Flavio the playboy Briatore gets a life ban for "causing" a deliberate accident when just over a decade ago a certain formula 1 great deliberately caused not one BUT two accidents and effectively got a slap on the wrist. (for the youngsters go watch Jerez '97 & Adelaide '94). Just food for thought.

The other joke of this scandal is how the real culprit of the saga, Nelson Piquet Jr. gets FIA immunity?

So basically if John F. Kennedy's killer comes forward and offers to tell the FIA/FBI who told him to kill the president he too will get immunity!

Edited by Wez

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Totally agree, but I think we covered / are continuing to cover this in 3 threads now. ;)

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The main difference between the Schumi saga and Reno race fixing is premeditation. Only Senna when told everyone in the paddock he will crash Prost in japan 90 acted in the same way.

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Indeed, it is quite poor by the FIA. These types of scandals always highlight the FIA's incompetent nature.

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So, I'd love to know how good old Flavio the playboy Briatore gets a life ban for "causing" a deliberate accident when just over a decade ago a certain formula 1 great deliberately caused not one BUT two accidents and effectively got a slap on the wrist. (for the youngsters go watch Jerez '97 & Adelaide '94). Just food for thought.

The other joke of this scandal is how the real culprit of the saga, Nelson Piquet Jr. gets FIA immunity?

So basically if John F. Kennedy's killer comes forward and offers to tell the FIA/FBI who told him to kill the president he too will get immunity!

I bet there are a lot of other things you can' understand!

Briatore admitted quilt, the others are assumptions, unproven beyond reasonable doubt and bigot-isms, if there is such a word!

These matters have been beaten to death more than anything and I just can't see the purpose!

By the way, did you know M. Schumacher has 7 world titles *to his name and 91 victories?!!!

Edited by tifosi too!

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I bet there are a lot of other things you can' understand!

Briatore admitted quilt, the others are assumptions, unproven beyond reasonable doubt and bigot-isms, if there is such a word!

These matters have been beaten to death more than anything and I just can't see the purpose!

By the way, did you know M. Schumacher has 7 world titles *to his name and 91 victories?!!!

:clap3::clap3::clap3:

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I bet there are a lot of other things you can' understand!

Briatore admitted quilt, the others are assumptions, unproven beyond reasonable doubt and bigot-isms, if there is such a word!

These matters have been beaten to death more than anything and I just can't see the purpose!

By the way, did you know M. Schumacher has 7 world titles *to his name and 91 victories?!!!

so what? - the rest of your post still makes absolutely no sense.

:clap3::clap3::clap3:

but I see schumi likes it - about as damning as it gets. :P

Edited by adamstrags

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so what? - the rest of your post still makes absolutely no sense.

Indeed I didn't bother enough to even make it readable enough.

Plus i 'm not English.

What I meant (deep breath), is :

I bet there are a lot of other things you can' understand!

Briatore admitted quilt, the others are assumptions, unproven beyond reasonable doubt and bigot-isms, if there is such a word!

These matters have been beaten to death more than anything and I just can't see the purpose!

1. If he cannot understand the differences or the circumstances that differentiate these events, i bet there quite a few other things he can't understand.

Have you ever seen the video from adelaide '94?

Have you ever raced in a track with opponents? Maybe you should take an unbiased look and tell me again.

2. Also, if we were to compare punishments, we have a team principal who admitted to have ordered his driver to hit a wall so that other driver can win from the back of the grid and a race driver who had some "suspicious" events that can be considered as racing incidents or bad judgment at some very highly stressful situations (championship on the line, figure it out). There is no way to prove they were deliberate so it's plain bigotry in my book. MS was excluded from the results of the 1997 championship, quite a severe punishment and this still without concrete evidence.

3. They have been beaten to death.

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Are you directing that post at me or Wez?

If it's directed towads me, then sorry buddy, but I'm not sure eactly what you're trying to say. Anyway - this is all been discussed at great, painful length in the other threads, so I'll leave it there. :)

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Are you directing that post at me or Wez?

If it's directed towads me, then sorry buddy, but I'm not sure eactly what you're trying to say. Anyway - this is all been discussed at great, painful length in the other threads, so I'll leave it there. :)

--That post was directed at you, who commented on my original post directed at Wez and therefore directed your post at me, so I had to direct it at you, so that I wouldn't be talking to myself ! (to be read with Kimi's voice and accent).

--What do you mean you don't understand? Isn't it plain English?

--Ok, Buddy, don't be sorry!

--Yes that's what i was saying!

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Are you directing that post at me or Wez?

If it's directed towads me, then sorry buddy, but I'm not sure eactly what you're trying to say. Anyway - this is all been discussed at great, painful length in the other threads, so I'll leave it there. :)

In the post that directed to him and you got an answer that you don't know if it was direted to you and that I don't think it was directed to me and because of that I am free to direct to anyone that have answered here and I am going to direct to you, I'll tell you that I like it speacially the bold part and would add some more but I see that you all agree taht this has been beaten to death so Long live to Schumi (even more if he comes back Ferrari)

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Indeed I didn't bother enough to even make it readable enough.

Plus i 'm not English.

What I meant (deep breath), is :

1. If he cannot understand the differences or the circumstances that differentiate these events, i bet there quite a few other things he can't understand.

Have you ever seen the video from adelaide '94?

Have you ever raced in a track with opponents? Maybe you should take an unbiased look and tell me again.

2. Also, if we were to compare punishments, we have a team principal who admitted to have ordered his driver to hit a wall so that other driver can win from the back of the grid and a race driver who had some "suspicious" events that can be considered as racing incidents or bad judgment at some very highly stressful situations (championship on the line, figure it out). There is no way to prove they were deliberate so it's plain bigotry in my book. MS was excluded from the results of the 1997 championship, quite a severe punishment and this still without concrete evidence.

3. They have been beaten to death.

You were explaining your original post which was aimed at Wez, at the request of Adam.

Anyway, I think I see your point, sort of. That premeditating a crash is different from what happens in the heat of battle under pressure. Although both may or may not (I can't be bothered to discuss this) have been "deliberate", there is a difference between planning a deliberate act and acting deliberately in the spur of the moment. Very different indeed.

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Thanks!

Right

I agree - Schumi's crashes were not as serious in nature to the premeditation of Jnr's.

I disagree - Flav hasn't admitted guilt and think his punishment is extremely harsh.

I disagree - bigotisms is not a word.

I agree that if Flav is guilty, he deserves a harsher sentence than Schumi, but not as harsh as he got.

I don't know what "the others" are and so can't tell you if they're assumptions or not.

I don't know what's been "unproven beyond reasonable doubt" - I'm not even sure that that's possible. So I don't know where I satnd on that one.

I agree - We've coverd this all to death already.

;)

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Thanks!

Right

I agree - Schumi's crashes were not as serious in nature to the premeditation of Jnr's.

I disagree - Flav hasn't admitted guilt and think his punishment is extremely harsh.

I disagree - bigotisms is not a word.

I agree that if Flav is guilty, he deserves a harsher sentence than Schumi, but not as harsh as he got.

I don't know what "the others" are and so can't tell you if they're assumptions or not.

I don't know what's been "unproven beyond reasonable doubt" - I'm not even sure that that's possible. So I don't know where I satnd on that one.

I agree - We've coverd this all to death already.

;)

No problem!

I agree Flavio didn't admit guilt, but he and Renault pleaded no contest to the charges, which equals to an admission. They wouldn't have done this out of pride. The evidence against them must have been completely damning. Otherwise they would have fought very hard to avoid being exposed/punished like that!

I'm pretty sure bigot-ism is not a word, but it was in the Firefox dictionary, so I thought I should give it a shot :eusa_think:.

The "others" was a quick reference to Adelaide and Jerez ("other incidents") but I wasn't all that bothered to be precise!

I meant they haven't been proved beyond reasonable doubt, but stated in a more "quick" way. My native language is Greek and we always have many different ways of saying something. The sentences are not that standardized! Of course this isn't translated properly in English I guess!

Well that's a lot of discussion over a 3 sentence post!

Maybe I should pay more attention to the way I write!

Edited by tifosi too!

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No problem!

I agree Flavio didn't admit guilt, but he and Renault pleaded no contest to the charges, which equals to an admission. They wouldn't have done this out of pride. The evidence against them must have been completely damning. Otherwise they would have fought very hard to avoid being exposed/punished like that!

I'm pretty sure bigot-ism is not a word, but it was in the Firefox dictionary, so I thought I should give it a shot :eusa_think:.

The "others" was a quick reference to Adelaide and Jerez ("other incidents") but I wasn't all that bothered to be precise!

I meant they haven't been proved beyond reasonable doubt, but stated in a more "quick" way. My native language is Greek and we always have many different ways of saying something. The sentences are not that standardized! Of course this isn't translated properly in English I guess!

Well that's a lot of discussion over a 3 sentence post!

Maybe I should pay more attention to the way I write!

okay - I disagree - Renault pleaded no contest Flav did not.

anyway - I suggest you read here for a lengthy discussion about all this that occured as events unfolded.

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okay - I disagree - Renault pleaded no contest Flav did not.

anyway - I suggest you read here for a lengthy discussion about all this that occured as events unfolded.

Thanks, but I 'm here every day!

I 've seen the thread!

Renault was accused of fixing the race. The Renault employees involved were Flav, Symonds and NPJ. Renault was the accused and admitted guilt by not contesting the charges.

It was a way of saying, "ok they did it".

If Flavio was innocent, I bet Renault would have fought!

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Thanks, but I 'm here every day!

I 've seen the thread!

Renault was accused of fixing the race. The Renault employees involved were Flav, Symonds and NPJ. Renault was the accused and admitted guilt by not contesting the charges.

It was a way of saying, "ok they did it".

If Flavio was innocent, I bet Renault would have fought!

Renault 'fixed' nothing but three employees did and did so, unilaterally. Flavio didn't show up and made matter worse by rubbishing the Council's right to judge him. Awful move, and the reason for the ban. An appeal is off the cards because of his 'no-show'. I am completely convinced he will start a rival series. NPJ was not censured - he copped a plea, as they say. A ban would have made little difference other than serve as a soothing balm for those who feel uppity about the immunity thing - he's totally unemployable in any series, anywhere in the world. Now, I suggest we all shut up about this and move on.

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So, I'd love to know how good old Flavio the playboy Briatore gets a life ban for "causing" a deliberate accident when just over a decade ago a certain formula 1 great deliberately caused not one BUT two accidents and effectively got a slap on the wrist. (for the youngsters go watch Jerez '97 & Adelaide '94). Just food for thought.

The other joke of this scandal is how the real culprit of the saga, Nelson Piquet Jr. gets FIA immunity?

So basically if John F. Kennedy's killer comes forward and offers to tell the FIA/FBI who told him to kill the president he too will get immunity!

Well said.

Indeed, it is quite poor by the FIA. These types of scandals always highlight the FIA's incompetent nature.

Incompetent? I would say corrupt. They went after Briatore and they got him right between the eyes. Everything else IS a joke and no one is pretending otherwise.

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Well said.

Incompetent? I would say corrupt. They went after Briatore and they got him right between the eyes. Everything else IS a joke and no one is pretending otherwise.

I think both, they like to change it up on a weekly basis.

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so what? - the rest of your post still makes absolutely no sense.

I concur... Or as the great Total F1 Senna would say "INDEED"

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I think both, they like to change it up on a weekly basis.

You are a generous man.

I've heard Ecclestone, Mosley, Whiting, etc accomplishing both on a sentence by sentence basis...

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Indeed I didn't bother enough to even make it readable enough.

Plus i 'm not English.

What I meant (deep breath), is :

1. If he cannot understand the differences or the circumstances that differentiate these events, i bet there quite a few other things he can't understand.

Have you ever seen the video from adelaide '94?

Have you ever raced in a track with opponents? Maybe you should take an unbiased look and tell me again.

2. Also, if we were to compare punishments, we have a team principal who admitted to have ordered his driver to hit a wall so that other driver can win from the back of the grid and a race driver who had some "suspicious" events that can be considered as racing incidents or bad judgment at some very highly stressful situations (championship on the line, figure it out). There is no way to prove they were deliberate so it's plain bigotry in my book. MS was excluded from the results of the 1997 championship, quite a severe punishment and this still without concrete evidence.

3. They have been beaten to death.

For the record I actually have raced on a racetrack in a single seater and would never attempt to cheat like that AND I've seen the '94 incident on several occupations (Im not going to go into it further because that topic alone has been beaten to death for years) but Schumacher was as guilty as can be in that instance. Please tell me you were old enough to watch the incident live in 1994 though before we continue?

As for the '97 fine, that was a joke as all Schumachers wins in '97 were still reflected on his name in the history books and the fact that he lost the championship meant being "excluded from the points was hardly a fine at all.

ANYWAY, this topic is meant to be about what a joke the incident and punishments are. I hate Mclaren but this also makes there 2007 punishment look harsh... Basically that knob Ron Dennis should have acted guilty and resigned from the team then instead of at the end of 2008 and the team would have got nothing more than a slap on the wrist.

AND Piquet is scum!

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