Hamilton 2012

[Insider 0]

Based on Lewis's recent comments, he appears eager to move away from Woking. That's my opinion. His retention of pop impresario, Simon Fuller as his full time manager makes it clear to me that he has set his controls for the stars. It's the sort of impetuous move I would expect from him. Though they appear to get along well, Hamilton has singularly failed to dominate Button as many thought he would, including himself, no doubt. His brilliant win at Shanghai is to be applauded but we see too little of that calibre of performance from him nowadays. He's has always been somewhat of a 'hit and miss' merchant but has acquired new skills under the influence of Jenson and one could say his driving is now a little more 'measured'. However, he is no longer the 'favourite son', as he was under Ron Dennis and this chides him a lot, I feel. He can't go to Ferrari. I can't see any departures from Maranello in the near future and Alonso detests him. Webber's seat at RBR may fall vacant shortly and he can probably dominate Seb in the same equipment. However, Seb is definitely a 'favourite' son and Hammy will have a problem there. Mercedes is a 'maybe' for sure and if Kubica does not return, Renault would certainly be in with a shout for Hamilton's services. We shall see. Such a move would pose a bigger question, I feel: who would replace him? Well, there is Paffet and others of that ilk but my money would be on Di Resta. He looks the complete package to me and would certainly keep Jenson honest. There is also Nico.

EDIT: Appalling keyboard skills!

[dribbler 6]

Once again, I think you over estimate the influence and benefit that Button has on Hamilton. Lewis is a star. His drive in China only went to reinforce that, in my view. Button looked beaten and seemed very impressed with Lewis's speed.

For me, the world is his oyster. I think Ferrari will get him in the end. The question is whether he decides to go to Red Bull on the way there. Persoanlly, I would stay put.

[pabloh20 1]

If this is a response to some of the comments in the media, then I am surprised you are paying much attention to it, to be honest. I feel there has been a lot of deliberate misinterpretation of some of Hamilton's remarks. It seems to be sensationalist rubbish to me. If it's something you have heard on the inside then fair enough, however I would still think it may be a bit of gossip mongering.

I think Hamilton likes having Jenson as a team mate and vice versa. Generally, Lewis is slightly quicker, but Jenson is close enough and different enough for Lewis to learn off him and possibly vice versa. It seems in the last race Jenson has learned how to wear out his tryes like Lewis

Edit: Sorry this reply was to Sean, not Steve who jumped in before me

[Insider 0]

Once again, I think you over estimate the influence and benefit that Button has on Hamilton. Lewis is a star. His drive in China only went to reinforce that, in my view. Button looked beaten and seemed very impressed with Lewis's speed.

For me, the world is his oyster. I think Ferrari will get him in the end. The question is whether he decides to go to Red Bull on the way there. Persoanlly, I would stay put.

With all respect, I don't think I am overestimating anything Steve. Button was quicker or as quick as Lewis all week. Uncharacteristically, Jenson wrecked his rears and made a dumb mistake but recovered several places to get back to third. Webber's superior car caught him and spoilt his day. Hamilton had to preserve tyres, though he had a set up his sleeve and did it well. I'll award him the star status you think he deserves when he's won a WDC in a season where he dominated throughout and trounced everyone in sight. For my money, he has a way to go yet.

[freaky2 1]

I agree with Paul, and if we were to consider Hamilton moving to another team at all we should do it after some races (midseaosn?), after seeing where McLaren stand this year and where Hamilton stands with McLaren.

Plus, you already made the breakdown of the teams: no Ferrari, Red Bull in doubt and the rest are miles away (actually Ferrari are, too)... a discussion right now is quite pointless, I fear.

[Insider 0]

If this is a response to some of the comments in the media, then I am surprised you are paying much attention to it, to be honest. I feel there has been a lot of deliberate misinterpretation of some of Hamilton's remarks. It seems to be sensationalist rubbish to me. If it's something you have heard on the inside then fair enough, however I would still think it may be a bit of gossip mongering.

I think Hamilton likes having Jenson as a team mate and vice versa. Generally, Lewis is slightly quicker, but Jenson is close enough and different enough for Lewis to learn off him and possibly vice versa. It seems in the last race Jenson has learned how to wear out his tryes like Lewis

Edit: Sorry this reply was to Sean, not Steve who jumped in before me

Simon Fuller usually works 'the grass is greener' approach on his clients. Lewis wants to be so much more that a racing driver. Personally, I can't see how he could become any more famous that he already is but he'll never accept that. Let us remember that he started the rumours, backtracked somewhat with statements about loyalty and then stirred it up again. He certainly won't achieve No.1 status with such comments so what is he after? For me, he's telling the paddock he's open to offers. I've seen this so many times before down the years, irrespective of the status of the season.

[pabloh20 1]

Simon Fuller usually works 'the grass is greener' approach on his clients. Lewis wants to be so much more that a racing driver. Personally, I can't see how he could become any more famous that he already is but he'll never accept that. Let us remember that he started the rumours, backtracked somewhat with statements about loyalty and then stirred it up again. He certainly won't achieve No.1 status with such comments so what is he after? For me, he's telling the paddock he's open to offers. I've seen this so many times before down the years, irrespective of the status of the season.

How do you know that Lewis wants to be more than a racing driver and that he started the rumours? Is this just an opinion?

[HandyNZL 1]

Well it was great that the Giz won in Hamilton this weekend, but really, a V8 Supercars race around the streets of Frankton in Hamilton is stupid when there is a quality track just up the road at Hampton Downs with three great overtaking spots on the short circuit. Instead of spending my rates money on a $30mil build and tear down of a temporary track every year, put that money into HD one time and finish the full track off with the bottom loop....

....what?.....nah, the title says Hamilton 2012....thats what I'm talking about......what?.....a thread about someone called Hamilton, not the actual place called Hamilton......you sure?....you are...oh....alright...um....exit stage, er, right...

[Insider 0]

How do you know that Lewis wants to be more than a racing driver and that he started the rumours? Is this just an opinion?

Well Paul, at the risk of appearing arrogant, a trained eye, a whisper in my ear and chunky periods of time in both F1 and the music business.

[Insider 0]

Well it was great that the Giz won in Hamilton this weekend, but really, a V8 Supercars race around the streets of Frankton in Hamilton is stupid when there is a quality track just up the road at Hampton Downs with three great overtaking spots on the short circuit. Instead of spending my rates money on a $30mil build and tear down of a temporary track every year, put that money into HD one time and finish the full track off with the bottom loop....

....what?.....nah, the title says Hamilton 2012....thats what I'm talking about......what?.....a thread about someone called Hamilton, not the actual place called Hamilton......you sure?....you are...oh....alright...um....exit stage, er, right...

Lie down and try again later

[pabloh20 1]

Well Paul, at the risk of appearing arrogant, a trained eye, a whisper in my ear and chunky periods of time in both F1 and the music business.

Ahhh, so that would be 'yes', it is just an opinion Unless, of course, the whisper in your ear was from Lewis

Seriously, though, I think Lewis just likes to race, but I guess time will tell if you are right.

[yurp 0]

I agree with Paul, and if we were to consider Hamilton moving to another team at all we should do it after some races (midseaosn?), after seeing where McLaren stand this year and where Hamilton stands with McLaren.

Plus, you already made the breakdown of the teams: no Ferrari, Red Bull in doubt and the rest are miles away (actually Ferrari are, too)... a discussion right now is quite pointless, I fear.

I agree with you, but only because you're a girly.

Sorry - that's a joke from the other thread - I'm not being creepy.

Honest.

Ahhh, so that would be 'yes', it is just an opinion Unless, of course, the whisper in your ear was from Lewis

Seriously, though, I think Lewis just likes to race, but I guess time will tell if you are right.

I hear he's releasing a duet with Nicole Rosberg Scherzinger.

(No opinion, rumour or fact, just a complete lie - that's how I roll.)

[HandyNZL 1]

No no no no no I agree with her first

[dribbler 6]

With all respect, I don't think I am overestimating anything Steve. Button was quicker or as quick as Lewis all week. Uncharacteristically, Jenson wrecked his rears and made a dumb mistake but recovered several places to get back to third. Webber's superior car caught him and spoilt his day. Hamilton had to preserve tyres, though he had a set up his sleeve and did it well. I'll award him the star status you think he deserves when he's won a WDC in a season where he dominated throughout and trounced everyone in sight. For my money, he has a way to go yet.

Fair enough. It just seemed that in a thread where you are trying to establish where Lewis may be going, you once again feel the need to talk up Button and rate him as equal to Lewis. That's a separate discussion, in my view.

[HandyNZL 1]

Until Button stops on a green light at the end of the pitlane, he is just merely imitating Lewis

[yurp 0]

No no no no no I agree with her first

I agree with her more and faster.

...or slower if she'd prefer because I'm the kind of guy that cares what she wants.

Beat that small islander!

[freaky2 1]

Sorry, George agrees with me more. But nice try

[yurp 0]

What? George? #46? WTF? He doesn't know how to agree with a woman.

You don't know what you missing. After agreeing with me, my better half's never even thought of agreeing with anyone else. She's all agreed out. Can't get any more agreeable. We agree into the small hours. On everything! All the time! I ask her, "Do you want to agree some more?" and she says "Oh boy do I - agree with me now!" and I do! We can't help it. I'm tired out with all the agreeing we do!

Boy it's fun to agree.

[HandyNZL 1]

I thought we had established women stay in the kitchen and we don't care.....trust you, Adam, to go all metrosexual and snag....

And anywhos...I agree with her all night long, fast slow whatever :P

...oh hi, Tanita how you doing?

[Rainmaster 7]

I agree with Tanita!

Based on Lewis's recent comments, he appears eager to move away from Woking. That's my opinion. His retention of pop impresario, Simon Fuller as his full time manager makes it clear to me that he has set his controls for the stars. It's the sort of impetuous move I would expect from him. Though they appear to get along well, Hamilton has singularly failed to dominate Button as many thought he would, including himself, no doubt. His brilliant win at Shanghai is to be applauded but we see too little of that calibre of performance from him nowadays. He's has always been somewhat of a 'hit and miss' merchant but has acquired new skills under the influence of Jenson and one could say his driving is now a little more 'measured'. However, he is no longer the 'favourite son', as he was under Ron Dennis and this chides him a lot, I feel. He can't go to Ferrari. I can't see any departures from Maranello in the near future and Alonso detests him. Webber's seat at RBR may fall vacant shortly and he can probably dominate Seb in the same equipment. However, Seb is definitely a 'favourite' son and Hammy will have a problem there. Mercedes is a 'maybe' for sure and if Kubica does not return, Renault would certainly be in with a shout for Hamilton's services. We shall see. Such a move would pose a bigger question, I feel: who would replace him? Well, there is Paffet and others of that ilk but my money would be on Di Resta. He looks the complete package to me and would certainly keep Jenson honest. There is also Nico.

EDIT: Appalling keyboard skills!

But I also agree with Pablova and Dribs, and I have to disagree with a lot of the points you make inside her. I don't think Lewis learned that much from Button, I think the best racing drivers always adapt to what they need to do. Lewis is one of the best racing drivers, he always would have learned to manage tyres a bit better once he needed to, even though it isn't his natural style. The cream always rises. As for Lewis not dominating him, I doubt it even plays on his mind at all, he is beating him and that is all that matters.

Maybe it is a bit inflammatory to say it, but it's funny how we never see the Lewis fans bringing up discussions about Jenson learning from Lewis (and surely he has more to learn considering Lewis beat him last year)? Again, the whole discussion just seems like a way of placating Button fans ("oh, our guy got beaten again, but hey at least the guy who is beating him learnt from our guy"). I won't agree with it until I see Lewis say "I didn't know how to manage tyres or do a measured race, but then Jenson told me the secret"! Not trying to wind anyone up here, and maybe people genuinely believe it, but I do think bias comes into play on this whole discussion.

As for the rumours themselves, again, I think Lewis was just stating the relatively obvious "if this team doesn't give me a winning car I will have to go somewhere else, even though I'd rather stay here". I don't think it's a good thing to be saying from a team harmony pov (although probably makes no meaningful difference), but it does at least remind everyone that he is in F1 to win, and reminds the other teams he's not off the market and therefore strengthens his negotiating position with Mclaren. I doubt he will move teams, Mclaren are still a consistently strong team. The only other options are Ferrari, which (history with Alonso aside) I think are generally worse anyway, and Red Bull, who perhaps won't stay as competitive for as long as Mclaren (although I do think Lewis could teach Vettel a hell of a lot )..

[pabloh20 1]

I agree with Tanita!

But I also agree with Pablova and Dribs, and I have to disagree with a lot of the points you make inside her. I don't think Lewis learned that much from Button, I think the best racing drivers always adapt to what they need to do. Lewis is one of the best racing drivers, he always would have learned to manage tyres a bit better once he needed to, even though it isn't his natural style. The cream always rises. As for Lewis not dominating him, I doubt it even plays on his mind at all, he is beating him and that is all that matters.

Maybe it is a bit inflammatory to say it, but it's funny how we never see the Lewis fans bringing up discussions about Jenson learning from Lewis (and surely he has more to learn considering Lewis beat him last year)? Again, the whole discussion just seems like a way of placating Button fans ("oh, our guy got beaten again, but hey at least the guy who is beating him learnt from our guy"). I won't agree with it until I see Lewis say "I didn't know how to manage tyres or do a measured race, but then Jenson told me the secret"! Not trying to wind anyone up here, and maybe people genuinely believe it, but I do think bias comes into play on this whole discussion.

As for the rumours themselves, again, I think Lewis was just stating the relatively obvious "if this team doesn't give me a winning car I will have to go somewhere else, even though I'd rather stay here". I don't think it's a good thing to be saying from a team harmony pov (although probably makes no meaningful difference), but it does at least remind everyone that he is in F1 to win, and reminds the other teams he's not off the market and therefore strengthens his negotiating position with Mclaren. I doubt he will move teams, Mclaren are still a consistently strong team. The only other options are Ferrari, which (history with Alonso aside) I think are generally worse anyway, and Red Bull, who perhaps won't stay as competitive for as long as Mclaren (although I do think Lewis could teach Vettel a hell of a lot )..

Au contraire, Blackadder. I think you will find a few posts up I said Jenson has learnt to wear his tyres out like Lewis

Actually, I said wear his tryes out, but that's not the point and you know it!

[Insider 0]

Fair enough. It just seemed that in a thread where you are trying to establish where Lewis may be going, you once again feel the need to talk up Button and rate him as equal to Lewis. That's a separate discussion, in my view.

You are right, it is a separate issue but I rate Lewis too and he certainly is the most threatening predator out there. Unfortunately, his choices are extremely limited. Personally, I think though the team was probably built around him when Heikki was there, it isn't now and that fact alone is probably the foundation of his frustration. He's thinking long-term here and I'd love to see him at RBR, head to head with Vettel.

[Insider 0]

I agree with Tanita!

But I also agree with Pablova and Dribs, and I have to disagree with a lot of the points you make inside her. I don't think Lewis learned that much from Button, I think the best racing drivers always adapt to what they need to do. Lewis is one of the best racing drivers, he always would have learned to manage tyres a bit better once he needed to, even though it isn't his natural style. The cream always rises. As for Lewis not dominating him, I doubt it even plays on his mind at all, he is beating him and that is all that matters.

Maybe it is a bit inflammatory to say it, but it's funny how we never see the Lewis fans bringing up discussions about Jenson learning from Lewis (and surely he has more to learn considering Lewis beat him last year)? Again, the whole discussion just seems like a way of placating Button fans ("oh, our guy got beaten again, but hey at least the guy who is beating him learnt from our guy"). I won't agree with it until I see Lewis say "I didn't know how to manage tyres or do a measured race, but then Jenson told me the secret"! Not trying to wind anyone up here, and maybe people genuinely believe it, but I do think bias comes into play on this whole discussion.

As for the rumours themselves, again, I think Lewis was just stating the relatively obvious "if this team doesn't give me a winning car I will have to go somewhere else, even though I'd rather stay here". I don't think it's a good thing to be saying from a team harmony pov (although probably makes no meaningful difference), but it does at least remind everyone that he is in F1 to win, and reminds the other teams he's not off the market and therefore strengthens his negotiating position with Mclaren. I doubt he will move teams, Mclaren are still a consistently strong team. The only other options are Ferrari, which (history with Alonso aside) I think are generally worse anyway, and Red Bull, who perhaps won't stay as competitive for as long as Mclaren (although I do think Lewis could teach Vettel a hell of a lot )..

Well, he has certainly learned how to mangle his rears and **** up in the pit lane!

[lewisthegreat2 0]

Lewis Hamilton's next power play is a NASCAR contract. It won't be for 2012, though.

The amount of "brand enhancement" exercises they've been trying to do with him in the United States is telling. He spends a lot of time there as well, and they're not hiring people to make him a recognizable figure here for nothing.

You know how Jeff Gordon became a NASCAR driver over an IndyCar star? It had a lot to do with ESPN's relationship with NASCAR, and there was definitely some money coming from ESPN. People of color don't watch NASCAR. Don't think NASCAR and their massive television partners don't want that changed, and don't think NASCAR isn't an option Lewis is seriously looking at for the future. When Gordon was coming over, NASCAR's demographic was limited to blue-collar men in the Southeast. It exploded nationally to include all types of white Americans when Gordon and ESPN grew the sport; now NASCAR's focus is to make another star to reach non-whites, and Lewis Hamilton, like Juan Pablo Montoya, is attractive to them. They have a lot of money, as do their broadcast partners, and Lewis can easily make the same (or more) racing NASCAR.

I know it's impossible to envision someone leaving F1 while they're still at their peak and choosing NASCAR of all things when just a few years ago NASCAR was nothing, but whether or not you like/respect/understand stock car racing, there's a high-level of respect toward it from Formula One, and Lewis has always been interested. He knows he can be an even bigger superstar there than in F1 if he succeeds due to the massive driver promotion and driver-based culture in that sport. I'm sure someone will disagree with me as an initial reaction of nothing can challenge the glory of F1, but meh, it's not about what you see in NASCAR, it's what he sees, his handlers see, his woman sees...

But he won't do NASCAR for 2012, or a few more years after. He still has something left to prove in F1. He'll get the best of both worlds.

In short, I don't think he leaves McLaren yet.

[Max Mosley 2]

(although I do think Lewis could teach Vettel a hell of a lot )..

Not trying to wind anyone up here, and maybe people genuinely believe it, but I do think bias comes into play on this whole discussion.

Yeah me too. Everyone is biased except the Lewisterics!

And just to defend the Buttonites a little, I can understand that they - like Alonso in his day - could feel slightly cheated by McLaren because Button/Alonso probably do/does/did a lot of good technical work and thinking, then Lewis just drives the same car slightly faster. If they were all in separate teams, it's possible the outcome would be different. Though of course I'm only saying that to placate the Button and Alonso fans.