Kimi Returns - So What?

[KoolMonkey 0]

Lotus (still can't used to calling them that, they are Renault to me) seem to have a very reliable car. I think Kimi will do well. Not sure he will be in the running for any race wins, but come Spa if their car is the #4 best, he's going to podium I think. I get the feeling Renault/Boullier are now thinking Kimi's in with a shot to win stuff this year. I hope their expectations are not inflating by the minute as then when it's clear they really do only have the #4 best car, history shows us Renault seem to turn on their drivers.

[Massa 0]

Out of curiosity, what gives you the notion that Lotus have the fourth best car? History? Testing? Gut feeling? Insider information? Just not wanting to be too optimistic? Obviously I have no counter-argument, I know very little, so I really just want to know if you know anything I haven't figured out.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Out of curiosity, what gives you the notion that Lotus have the fourth best car? History? Testing? Gut feeling? Insider information? Just not wanting to be too optimistic? Obviously I have no counter-argument, I know very little, so I really just want to know if you know anything I haven't figured out.

Where do you think Lotus is at? There's actually talk that Lotus is the car to beat, but I'm not that optimistic. a few podium places for Kimi would suffice this year, I'm looking for him to start challenging in a year or two...

[KoolMonkey 0]

It's a gut feeling right now Massa. When I say or feel they have the #4 best car, that's me thinking at years end. If they really do have "the" car to beat right now, then I'd be stoked. But wanting to take a realistic and optimistic approach, I feel the top two will be between RBR & McLaren, and Ferrari third. Merc might spring a surprise on us which would be equally exciting. I've not once been a Schumi fan, but find myself hoping he'll podium so we'll see how Mercs year plays out too.

I think at the end of this season Kimi might get some podiums, and hopefully a really good showing at Spa. If it goes better than that, then I'll be signing till the cows come home.

[yurp 0]

Out of curiosity, what gives you the notion that Lotus have the fourth best car? History? Testing? Gut feeling? Insider information? Just not wanting to be too optimistic? Obviously I have no counter-argument, I know very little, so I really just want to know if you know anything I haven't figured out.

Eric - since you're a mod now, does that mean you'll have to stick to one profile?

What will happen to the other 2651? Will you auction them on ebay?

Got to hurt.

[dribbler 6]

My feeling is there have not been sufficient changes in regulations terms to represent a significant change in the pecking order. So what?

Take off the rose tinted spectacles and shovel away the bull sh*t (wait.....there's lots of it....ready?.....okay) and what we're left with will more than likely be odd smatterings of points here and there for our Finnish little friend.

I only hope the Petrov/Scumacher bumper car antics will be replace by Raikkonen/Schumacher spats for lowly points. Might be the best fight of the season. Sure to give Seb something interesting to laugh at as he laps them. A bit like pointing to something mildly interesting out of the window when you travel by train.

[Massa 0]

Where do you think Lotus is at? There's actually talk that Lotus is the car to beat, but I'm not that optimistic. a few podium places for Kimi would suffice this year, I'm looking for him to start challenging in a year or two...

I don't have the balls to make predictions, Brad, just to challenge everyone else's.

No, seriously, I still think Red Bull are the team to beat because, as Steve highlights, there haven't been many areas to make up ground and Red Bull's not likely to just go backwards. Their driver's pretty alright, too. The Lotus was quick, they logged more laps than anyone, and they believe they have an advantage in fuel consumption so if they can run just a tad lighter, it might make a real difference, you'd think, even if it only gains them one lap on tire wear, that's a huge thing to play with if it's true. The Ferrari's "radical," and I tend to find "radical" cars have been hit-or-miss. Some tracks, great, others, where are they? I don't trust the team's management, either, so I think beating Ferrari is a real possibility for Lotus. McLaren? Probably still ahead, just on the theory of "how much can really change," but I'd consider things close enough, on testing, on the same articles we all read, and on gut feeling, that any of those three behind Red Bull could emerge ahead of any of the others. I suppose, then, I might be suggesting that even if Lotus were the fourth best, that doesn't lock them into finishing P7 and P8 every weekend. Räikkönen has taken far worse to victory (Spa 2009), though I'm not ready to predict he'll have that much success. He's already proven me wrong by not being rusty, though.

The one factor, obviously, that we need to wait for is the Mercedes, and I know there's not much optimism about that car so I don't expect it to change the front four, but I mean, it's a more significant launch than when HRT launch their car or when Charles Pic launches the Marussia Virgin over someone else's tire first corner at Albert Park.

It's a gut feeling right now Massa. When I say or feel they have the #4 best car, that's me thinking at years end. If they really do have "the" car to beat right now, then I'd be stoked. But wanting to take a realistic and optimistic approach, I feel the top two will be between RBR & McLaren, and Ferrari third. Merc might spring a surprise on us which would be equally exciting. I've not once been a Schumi fan, but find myself hoping he'll podium so we'll see how Mercs year plays out too.

I think at the end of this season Kimi might get some podiums, and hopefully a really good showing at Spa. If it goes better than that, then I'll be signing till the cows come home.

Fair enough. I'm wishy-washy so I totally understand being cautiously optimistic about things. Everyone knows I'm not a big Kimi fan but it just feels "right" to have him back, so I guess I just come to expect he'll be in the mix. I know Räikkönen wants to have his name out there so he can move up to a better ride (Red Bull, McLaren, whatever opens), and I'm sure he's savvier than I think he is, but he's also a racer, and I just don't see him returning for the hell of it. He can be uncompetitive in lower-pressure environments throughout the racing world, or go win sports car races and have so much free-time to do whatever interests him and be the world's fastest "gentleman driver," drinking premium alcohol and spending his money on fast toys. If he didn't trust Lotus to do him justice this year, he wouldn't have done the deal, I'm confident in that. Doesn't mean the guy's going to go Jenson Button 2009 on us...but his presence will be felt, and not just because we can make a two-hundred-page thread about him even when he's not on the grid.

Eric - since you're a mod now, does that mean you'll have to stick to one profile?

What will happen to the other 2651? Will you auction them on ebay?

Got to hurt.

Well the switches kept you guys on your toes, but now I have other powers to do that so it's no loss.

[Quiet One 15]

I agree with Steve. As a result of the current regulations, all teams have to undergo the same routine every year: try to make some badass car in almost complete darkness due to the pretty conservative innovation policy and lack of pre season testing. That tend to produce either dud cars, or smooth evolutions of previous season cars, with a very slim chance of hitting jackpot in any case.

But what matters most is the possibility of refining the crude sketch of a car you brought to Jerez and make it work for the whole season. That's where the money goes. Red Bull did it well. McLarens excels at that game. Ferrari lacks the brains even if they try to compensate with bucketloads of money and brute force. Mercedes had the money for the past seasons. The question is how patient Merc suits are going to be with this approach. Lotus simply has not enough money. They can win a Blitzkrieg battle in the beginning, but they cannot wage a whole season war.

So, unless they can really shine (and shine big) from the beginning, they will simply lack the power to keep the car updated. That's what hampers them the most.

And this is why no matter how mixed up things look in the first races, some sort of natural order tends to prevail.

of course, I still hope that this balance is fragile enough to be upset this year, otherwise I would spend my weekends watching E! Channel

[Massa 0]

I just hope that if the car starts out fourth best, it stays there. If Räikkönen were to take a car and develop it, rather than just check out because it wasn't quick enough, I'd have a lot of backtracking to do about things I've said about his work ethic in the past.

[yurp 0]

No, seriously, I still think Red Bull are the team to beat because, as Steve highlights, there haven't been many areas to make up ground and Red Bull's not likely to just go backwards. Their driver's pretty alright, too.

"driver's" rather than "drivers are" - so are you saying Webber's a pile of dung? Thought so.

Well the switches kept you guys on your toes, but now I have other powers to do that so it's no loss.

Yep - I did enjoy the game of finding the Eric profiles, though inevitably the bruins signatures crept in.

As for where Kimi will end up - of course it depends on the seasons that other drivers have, but I'm willing to forecast he ends up somewhere between 4th and 8th in the WDC.

[Autumnpuma 0]

Toleman won't produce a car worthy of podiums. They will probably keep up their eternal front wing development, however. Yurp is casting with a wide net to predict 'somewhere between 4th and 8th' but he's probably right. I would put them as a solid 5th with Kimi hauling in most of the team's points.

Kimi's style has always been deceptive. You never quite notice just how fast he's hauling a car 'round the track until you take a few moment to look but I don't know if the cameras will have the patience to let us look. Shame, really, because a former champion hauling a crapwagon 'round a track is a marvelous thing to watch.

Now to the interesting bits. I'm going to put aside all the Kimi nonsense about alcohol, monkey suits, ice cream and lazyness. He isn't lazy. He knows enough about a car to tell his engineers how he wants it to drive and in modern F1 that's enough. There's no crime in that, btw. Many great drivers didn't express detailed technical prowess. Gilles Villeneuve, Nigel Mansell and Mika Hakkinen to name three. It's wrong to assume a driver like Kimi isn't effective just because he isn't as technical as Alonso, Mikey the Schu or lil Rosberg. The ability to go fast is the only true judge of effectiveness and Kimi is very effective indeed. Would it surprise anyone to know that I draw many parallels between Kimi and my hero Jim Clark? Both were able to drive around a car's problems and both were capable of stunning levels of speed. Both drove to win each race and both were not known to be content with less than a win just to preserve points (that was more Brabham's game). Both were reserved out of the car but completely at home behind the wheel.

My only problem with Kimi was that he made some mistakes during races that cost him valuable points. In my mind he completely redeemed himself at Ferrari and just when I was really enjoying watching him again, he left. Now he's back and I'm very excited to see what he'll do. And I hope the TV cameras let us see it.

[HandyNZL 1]

Wasn't Toleman, BAR, then Honda, then Brawn, then Merc? And Lotus was Renault, who was Benneton?

Or did you mean Merc won't podium, and then you started on about Lotus...eyes is confushed....

[HandyNZL 1]

No....BAR was Tyrell...???

Damn, now I'm really confushed...

[yurp 0]

Toleman won't produce a car worthy of podiums. They will probably keep up their eternal front wing development, however. Yurp is casting with a wide net to predict 'somewhere between 4th and 8th' but he's probably right. I would put them as a solid 5th with Kimi hauling in most of the team's points.

Kimi's style has always been deceptive. You never quite notice just how fast he's hauling a car 'round the track until you take a few moment to look but I don't know if the cameras will have the patience to let us look. Shame, really, because a former champion hauling a crapwagon 'round a track is a marvelous thing to watch.

Now to the interesting bits. I'm going to put aside all the Kimi nonsense about alcohol, monkey suits, ice cream and lazyness. He isn't lazy. He knows enough about a car to tell his engineers how he wants it to drive and in modern F1 that's enough. There's no crime in that, btw. Many great drivers didn't express detailed technical prowess. Gilles Villeneuve, Nigel Mansell and Mika Hakkinen to name three. It's wrong to assume a driver like Kimi isn't effective just because he isn't as technical as Alonso, Mikey the Schu or lil Rosberg. The ability to go fast is the only true judge of effectiveness and Kimi is very effective indeed. Would it surprise anyone to know that I draw many parallels between Kimi and my hero Jim Clark? Both were able to drive around a car's problems and both were capable of stunning levels of speed. Both drove to win each race and both were not known to be content with less than a win just to preserve points (that was more Brabham's game). Both were reserved out of the car but completely at home behind the wheel.

My only problem with Kimi was that he made some mistakes during races that cost him valuable points. In my mind he completely redeemed himself at Ferrari and just when I was really enjoying watching him again, he left. Now he's back and I'm very excited to see what he'll do. And I hope the TV cameras let us see it.

Yeppers - wide nets are my speciality - I'll offer a more precise estimate somewhere around Nov 26th.

As for the middle paragraph I entirely agree. He's a fast driver and he'll get the best out of what he's given. His media persona is something quite removed from his talent behind the wheel.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Toleman won't produce a car worthy of podiums. They will probably keep up their eternal front wing development, however. Yurp is casting with a wide net to predict 'somewhere between 4th and 8th' but he's probably right. I would put them as a solid 5th with Kimi hauling in most of the team's points.

Kimi's style has always been deceptive. You never quite notice just how fast he's hauling a car 'round the track until you take a few moment to look but I don't know if the cameras will have the patience to let us look. Shame, really, because a former champion hauling a crapwagon 'round a track is a marvelous thing to watch.

Now to the interesting bits. I'm going to put aside all the Kimi nonsense about alcohol, monkey suits, ice cream and lazyness. He isn't lazy. He knows enough about a car to tell his engineers how he wants it to drive and in modern F1 that's enough. There's no crime in that, btw. Many great drivers didn't express detailed technical prowess. Gilles Villeneuve, Nigel Mansell and Mika Hakkinen to name three. It's wrong to assume a driver like Kimi isn't effective just because he isn't as technical as Alonso, Mikey the Schu or lil Rosberg. The ability to go fast is the only true judge of effectiveness and Kimi is very effective indeed. Would it surprise anyone to know that I draw many parallels between Kimi and my hero Jim Clark? Both were able to drive around a car's problems and both were capable of stunning levels of speed. Both drove to win each race and both were not known to be content with less than a win just to preserve points (that was more Brabham's game). Both were reserved out of the car but completely at home behind the wheel.

My only problem with Kimi was that he made some mistakes during races that cost him valuable points. In my mind he completely redeemed himself at Ferrari and just when I was really enjoying watching him again, he left. Now he's back and I'm very excited to see what he'll do. And I hope the TV cameras let us see it.

Lovely post Mike

[Quiet One 15]

Bah, I disagree. (My puter is broken so I have to write no more than a couple of lines now from work, you guys are lucky! )

Actually I don't disagree that much, but I enjoy disagreeing with Mike on F1. As much as we both probably enjoy those thoughts you get when watching a sunset. (No, not *those* thoughts, the more philosophical ones I meant)

Welcome back, old M., bring your unlit pipe and some alcohol (the older the better).

Kimi? He said he changeed. I do hope so. I like to see drivers changing, they are humans. Changing even for the worse shows a will to improve. Not just cars should evolve in F1.

[dribbler 6]

The question in my mind is this; Why did Kimi start going slower than Massa? Furthermore, if he was slower when he left, how will be better than Massa when he returns.

Unlike Schumacher who lost something in between, will Raikkonen miraculously bring a special herbal speed tea that will turn him into his old self? (And when I say old self, I mean back to at least 2007, which is FIVE YEARS AGO).

I think a reality check is required.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

The question in my mind is this; Why did Kimi start going slower than Massa? Furthermore, if he was slower when he left, how will be better than Massa when he returns.

Unlike Schumacher who lost something in between, will Raikkonen miraculously bring a special herbal speed tea that will turn him into his old self? (And when I say old self, I mean back to at least 2007, which is FIVE YEARS AGO).

I think a reality check is required.

Yes, it's a special herbal speed tea mixed with honey and ice, it's even more potent when you add barley...

Steve, I think the circumstances of ferrari switching driver preference to Massa was one of the reasons, with you buddy's MS mainly responsible as Massa was his protege . If you think this idea crazy or a conspiracy theory, there's an interesting article in F1 Racing at the time that Kimi joined Ferrari giving suggestions on just why Michael would want to.

Not only is Kimi motivated, but the team is supporting him, if you read Lotus articles of late... thats the major difference

[Massa 0]

Unlike Schumacher who lost something in between, will Raikkonen miraculously bring a special herbal speed tea that will turn him into his old self?

Doesn't need it; he's his new self. His NASCAR experience has taught him everything he never knew about automobile racing.

Come on guys, quit being so realistic and logical...

...though I think Massa is a worse driver than he used to be after his head injury, and while I don't believe Massa had preferential treatment at Ferrari (considering they used team orders against him even when he was ahead of Räikkönen in the standings in 2007), I do think he's less regarded now by the team than he used to be (but it's not severely so; they like the guy, they just believe in Alonso more, as they should, since Alonso's closed the deal twice). I have never seen any athlete ever be 100% after a head injury; even the young ones who become better players with experience after returning still are never as good as they were supposed to be. And who knows what's going on with him psychologically; you're not going to win with fear in your heart and for all I know Massa spends the entire race thinking about his wife and young child and is looking more for flying debris than he is for the actual corner entry.

If we aren't going to let Räikkönen be the driver he was years ago (the one that took an awful Ferrari and won a great race in 2009), then I really don't think it's fair to say Massa is still the driver he was years ago after having a huge head injury. So I'm not sold on the Massa argument. Massa beat him over their time together, maybe they were on even terms, maybe they weren't, but I still trust that people in F1 know more than I know, and that they wouldn't sign Räikkönen if they didn't believe in him, and he wouldn't have the patience to do a year in a crappy team just to get his name out there when it was always still fresh in our minds.

[Autumnpuma 0]

Toleman begat Benetton which begat Renault which begat Lotus which just begat ridiculousness.

Instead of asking why Kimi went slower than Massa, which is a bit of a leading question, I would ask why Massa went faster than Kimi. Drivers like Kimi don't suddenly go slower unless it's the car to blame. So if that's your question, look to the car. Now if you want to know why Massa went faster, well, that's far more interesting...

So why did Massa go faster?

[Autumnpuma 0]

No....BAR was Tyrell...???

Damn, now I'm really confushed...

Yes. BAR was Ttyyrreell (never know where to place the double letters so I play it safe and double everything).

Ligier became Prost which...hell, now I'm confused. I think Tom Walkinshaw bought Prost GP and sorta vanished it, perhaps they used some bits for Arrows. Then Super Aguri bought some old Arrows bits. So it would go Ligier begat Prost which begat some Arrows bits which begat Super Aguri Which-Was-A-Damned-Great-Team-Please-Come-Back!

er...

...ahem.

[KoolMonkey 0]

I agree Super Aguri was a fantastic little team, and they did not deserve to be knifed in the back by Honda the way they did. What they achieved with old cars and a tiny budget is commendable. Just imagine what they could have done with a half decent budget and sponsorships.

Some nice thoughts on Kimi here. And I must applaud you guys for keeping it free of the hoohah about Kimi being lazy... ice cream... blah blah blah. Fast is he's a damn fast F1 racer and the mechanics he's worked with at every team he's been which have all said glowing things about him. What he does in his private life is his business. If he chooses to not be so animated when fronting the media, that doesn't mean he's a stiff. We all know this isn't the true reflection of Kimi's personality, but it seems the media does not. Brundled had a quote a few years back about how Kimi would be the life of parties and getting him to shutup was the problem, not getting him to speak.

As for Massa beating Kimi, honestly I don't know how he did it. I've never rated Massa that well, but for a period he was placing higher than Kimi. Know I know Kimi usually get's the most out of a car and drives around the problems, but I feel there was something more going on here. If Schumi's Ferrari "advisor" role also included guiding how the car should be designed, then it's not a stretch to to say he might have been doing this with Massa in mind. Could it be the car was too far removed from what Kimi felt most comfortable in, or could push aside and just drive the thing. I don't buy into the notion Kimi suddenly found some motivation after Massa was injured and put in some good performances. Kimi has a history of giving 100% in his races. You only have to look at 2005 as an example. If he had played safe like Alonso did, and just collected points, he'd have won the WDC. But he showed us his balls to the wall, all or nothing approach to racing... win or die trying. I continue to believe the good results for the 2nd part of 2009 was down to Ferrari having no choice but to actually listen to Kimi and setup the car as he preferred. And in modern times the 2009 Ferrari must go down as an all time dog. The fact they stopped development of the car even before the half point season is a slap in the face to Kimi and Massa. But he soldiered on, won Spa and proceeded to gain more points than any other driver in the later part of the season. Kimi already knew at that point he was being replaced by Alsono, so the media's notion that this was all just a last gasp effort to secure a seat is false.

[Rainmaster 7]

I feel Räikkönen is as much of a head/confidence driver as anyone you care to mention, despite the cool exterior. Ferrari's misplaced trust in Massa made an impact on his performances in my opinion. Perhaps the car was developed more with Massa in mind in 2008 onwards but I wouldn't go any further than that, in terms of actual material disadvantages that KR had (and I don't know how much you can develop a car towards one driver, tbh, if you are aiming to create a good car... but that's a discussion somebody already had somewhere on here). Although I think having Schumi at the races was a very stupid decision by Ferrari (to involve a former competitor), I doubt it made any actual direct effect on KR's performance. It would have just made Massa feel that bit more comfortable in the team.

In any case, the car in 2009 was apparently not particularly drivable so I don't see how it could have suited either of them that well, yet from Massa's accident KR made 4 consecutive podiums (which I cannot recall the circumstances of, but seem to remember were very impressive at the time). So, once the team had to be behind him again due to Massa's absence, he got his confidence back and sure enough the results came.

Worth pointing out, I am not saying Räikkönen was demotivated or not trying, but small psychological problems and not feeling comfortable in a team can make a small difference to the way you prepare and the driving itself; at the top level, small differences are enough to make a big gap in the performance. Massa and Webber both suffer these issues now with their respective team mates (and Massa had his accident too, of course).

The comparison to Schumi is not so great. Räikkönen is younger, maintained his reflexes in rallying, and crucially compared to his final couple of years in F1 will be in a team where he is definitely wanted, admired and understood. We will see...

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Instead of asking why Kimi went slower than Massa, which is a bit of a leading question, I would ask why Massa went faster than Kimi. Drivers like Kimi don't suddenly go slower unless it's the car to blame. So if that's your question, look to the car. Now if you want to know why Massa went faster, well, that's far more interesting...

So why did Massa go faster?

million dollar question Mike... this is from Kimi himself...

"Raikkonen has also insisted that motivation was never an issue for him during his last stint in Formula 1 and says he will drive to the best of his ability even if the car is not a race-winning car. The problem is not motivation if the car is Sh#t – you just drive your best and don’t get results. It’s not always the driver’s fault, but it’s easier to blame the guy who is in the car. My feeling was that I drove one of my best years in 2009 so I was very happy with that.” The last Ferrari I drove wasn’t always at the front and I had some pretty good races. I won’t give up if I’m, say, eighth. As long as I know that I am giving 100 per cent, I am happy with my driving. If it’s not enough, it doesn’t matter,” said Raikkonen."

f1zone

Which lead us again to the only reason for his "supposed slump"... team preference... Why make the car more understeery than oversteery, the way Kimi likes it... small details that makes the difference..etc... and if the car was Sh#t as he says, why would Massa excel in it? A point of reference is today's driver's situation at Ferrari. They are supporting Alonso as a team leader, everything is steered towards him, and you and see a big difference in the results. Same happened to Kimi... I would say Kimi did pretty well, as he himself suggest so. And in a team with such history and as big like Ferrari, it's easier to see...

[Autumnpuma 0]

I feel Räikkönen is as much of a head/confidence driver as anyone you care to mention, despite the cool exterior. Ferrari's misplaced trust in Massa made an impact on his performances in my opinion. Perhaps the car was developed more with Massa in mind in 2008 onwards but I wouldn't go any further than that, in terms of actual material disadvantages that KR had (and I don't know how much you can develop a car towards one driver, tbh, if you are aiming to create a good car... but that's a discussion somebody already had somewhere on here). Although I think having Schumi at the races was a very stupid decision by Ferrari (to involve a former competitor), I doubt it made any actual direct effect on KR's performance. It would have just made Massa feel that bit more comfortable in the team.

In any case, the car in 2009 was apparently not particularly drivable so I don't see how it could have suited either of them that well, yet from Massa's accident KR made 4 consecutive podiums (which I cannot recall the circumstances of, but seem to remember were very impressive at the time). So, once the team had to be behind him again due to Massa's absence, he got his confidence back and sure enough the results came.

Worth pointing out, I am not saying Räikkönen was demotivated or not trying, but small psychological problems and not feeling comfortable in a team can make a small difference to the way you prepare and the driving itself; at the top level, small differences are enough to make a big gap in the performance. Massa and Webber both suffer these issues now with their respective team mates (and Massa had his accident too, of course).

The comparison to Schumi is not so great. Räikkönen is younger, maintained his reflexes in rallying, and crucially compared to his final couple of years in F1 will be in a team where he is definitely wanted, admired and understood. We will see...

Damn fine post, here.