Kvyat Is A Dead Man

[Emmcee 0]

I just saw an article on Omnicorse where they say that Kvyat was told BEFORE the race in Sochi that he had to make room for Verstappen as Verstappen's contract was not watertight and he could have walked away unless he was promoted to RBR

http://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/clamoroso-la-sostituzione-di-kvyat-decisa-prima-di-sochi-733605/

Isn't that what I said as soon as we heard about this? I gotta stop giving credit to people, when they come up with realistic or good points, as it doesn't seem to work for me on a couple of occasions now.

[Emmcee 0]

I am trying to say something good about this young man. After all, his raw model is not Hamilton, but Vettel, which actually rubs me the right way.

Anything about Vettel seems to he you going lol.

[KoolMonkey 0]

DK is 3/4 tenths off DR this year and was on level pegging last. That's official from the team. He deserved the promotion but three races is hardly a test. MV is getting on everybody's back at STR, especially Sainz and he needs moving basically. That's official from the team. It is also bollocks. It's insurance against MV jumping ship which Jos has probably threatened. DR will put him in his place and we'll see what he's got.

The Daddy vibe is strong with this one. Yeah I got the feeling there's been alot going on in the background as well. But I still don't believe that Merc and Ferrari were ready to swoop him up. Sounds like a game of what ifs, or if you dont', then we'll go elsewhere approach. Now he's got the big boy pants on, let's see if he can handle it because the pressure will be alot higher than STR.

I'm disappointed though, because I really wanted to see Sainz promoted. He's got the right temprament and from what I've see has been the equal measure of Max.

[Emmcee 0]

I knew this from day one, it's max living out jos's dream again if only jos could've applied it to himself, he might have had a better career.

[KoolMonkey 0]

As usual Ted Kravitz has some good info on this. I wasn't aware STR was in that much turmoil. And if moving Max on from the team is going to help STR settle down, whose been creating the drama? Money is on Max or his Dad, and Ted references fathers. I haven't see Carlos Sainz in the paddock, though I expect to in Barcelona.

Ted Kravitz: "As emotionless as it seems, swapping Daniil Kvyat for Max Verstappen is actually very useful for Red Bull as it kills a whole aviary with one stone:

"It secures Verstappen for the short to medium-term.

"It solves the Kvyat problem.

"It diffuses the toxic atmosphere at Toro Rosso and helps them earn more money.

"It deflects attention from the furore over Dietrich Mateschitz's TV station."

Ok, let's go through this in more detail…

Securing Verstappen's short to medium-term future

TK: "Everyone knows Max Verstappen is in demand. For all Christian Horner's assurances that he is on long-term Red Bull contract, the actual details have been sketchy and the Dutchman is such a prize that rival teams would be prepared to buy that contract off for the right amount of money, if Max were available.

"So with Max able to move if he wanted, however messy, it looks like Red Bull have had to show the Verstappens - father and son - that they are serious about keeping him.

"To do that, they would have had to give him a new contract, (taking him off the driver market and probably tripling his earnings) and as a sweetener, hand Max Dani Kvyat's car for the rest of the season. Red Bull also had to show Ferrari, Mercedes, McLaren, Renault etc, that Verstappen really isn't available.

"From the Verstappens' point of view, it's also the best deal to do now. They aren't going to get an answer out of Ferrari until the end of the season, same for Mercedes, who have to conclude their own driver negotiations. And if they do wait until mid-season and both Ferrari and Merc say 'not now', that weakens their hand with Red Bull.

"Also, if the Verstappens waited, the deal wouldn't have been sweetened by an early switch to a Red Bull Racing car capable of helping Max achieve front-row starts and his first podium this season."

Solving the Kvyat problem

TK: "So with all that in mind, this isn't about what happened in Russia. That race just gave Red Bull's driver mentor Helmut Marko the excuse to pull the trap door.

"Even though he came out of China smelling of roses with a podium, Kvyat hasn't been near Ricciardo's pace in races and, crucially, in qualifying.

"In fact, Marko's mind was more likely to have been made up by Daniil's recent (comparatively) poor qualifying performances. He hadn't carried last year's momentum into 2016. Remember Kvyat was rushed into the Red Bull team when Vettel dumped them in Japan 2014, so his appointment in the first place was hasty.

"But it also takes the pressure off Kvyat. You could have imagined him going to Spain and the only thing we'd be asking him on the Thursday is 'Are you sorry?' 'Are you going to do it again?' 'When are you going to stop crashing into Vettel?' Marko knows enough about drivers to know that that pressure would only be very negative for him and so, this way, he does actually lift all that pressure on the Russian.

"That's not to say this does anything for Marko's reputation as an 'old meanie' - something I don't think he gives two hoots about! But he's demonstrated how little chance young drivers get once again. It's sad for these kids, but that's the deal with Red Bull.

"Not that he would ever admit this, but it also shows that Marko was pretty embarrassed by and sorry for what happened to Sebastian Vettel in Sochi - Vettel is still firmly on the Marko and Horner Christmas card list."

Diffusing the toxic atmosphere at Toro Rosso

TK: "Toro Rosso is a melting pot at the best of times, but the second year of the Verstappen-Carlos Sainz rivalry turned ugly from the very off in Australia and I don't think we understood how deeply those tensions have been felt within the team.

"There have been reports of shouting matches between engineers and team bosses, more shouting matches between drivers' fathers and team bosses, and then there's the slightly mysterious and sudden appointment of John Booth to the role of racing director.

"When I asked team members and the drivers in Russia what John's role was going to be, they looked completely mystified and said 'we don't really know, no one's told us'. It did seem to come together very quickly - probably as a response to the tense atmosphere which had developed in that team.

"If you take one of those protagonists out of that atmosphere and put the politically neutral Kvyat back in, I think it can only help bring stability to Toro Rosso. And that's important because they've got a great car this year, but with last year's Ferrari engine which cannot be developed, so the best opportunity to score lots of points is in the first six or seven races.

"They haven't been taking those opportunities, mostly through unreliability or bad luck incidents - which only makes their need for points (and therefore money) more acute.

"It's great: in comes an experienced points scorer in Kvyat who can finish well in the next few races, he gets his head back together and Toro Rosso benefit!

"At the grand-old age of 22, a senior driver returns to his old team to help them out of a tricky spot."

Deflecting focus from Red Bull's TV station

TK: "This does also deflect attention away from Red Bull co-owner Dietrich Mateschitz's threat to shut down his own television station, ServusTV, as that's been a big thing in Austria.

"A lot of people work there, they produce a lot of content and own a lot of rights. They're a major channel in Red Bull's home country. His issue with broadcast unions won't have gone down well and threats to axe the whole thing have caused a real ruckus, so in domestic terms the Verstappen story does take attention away from something which might have been slightly embarrassing for Mateschitz."

Let's look outside the aviary - what does this mean for Daniel Ricciardo, Verstappen's new team-mate?

TK: "I can imagine him smiling and saying 'right, okay, let's see where this one goes then…' I think he'll see it as a personal challenge.

"It could actually be the making of him. He'll certainly have the advantage of familiarity early on with the way Red Bull go about their racing, which could help. But that won't last very long.

"We already know how good Ricciardo is - he put Vettel in the shade in 2014, so let's see, it's another great story line for us watching on TV this year.

"If Ricciardo puts Verstappen away, then we will know he really is special."

And what about the bigger picture - what does this say about Red Bull's future?

TK: "It says that they're on the road back to glory. I don't think the Verstappens would have agreed to this if they hadn't seen the lie of the land as regards engine equalisation.

"In Russia it was agreed that F1 is getting rid of the token system, so manufacturers whose engines are underperforming at the moment will be allowed to improve them without the kind of restrictions they've had in the past.

"It's a big flag that there is a future ahead for a competitive Red Bull. If they stay with Renault, which it is looking like they will unless a deal with Honda is somehow put together, it does signal that Red Bull are absolutely serious about getting back to being Mercedes beaters and winning championships.

"There's also the big 2017 change in aerodynamic regulations to consider. When you've got a huge aero change you'd put your money on Adrian Newey to get the best out of it. In fact, the last big aero rule change we had in 2009, Newey was only outmanoeuvred by the loophole with Brawn's double diffuser - otherwise Red Bull had the best car. And then there's the safety canopy - or AeroScreen - to consider - with which Red Bull have a major head-start.

"So having reached the bottom of their cycle, this marks the beginning of Red Bull coming back towards the top - which will probably coincide very neatly with Max Verstappen's second or third year with the team and a tilt at the world championship. Everyone gets what they want - except poor Dani Kvyat…"

WOW. Alot to process there. We saw Max blow up over the radio when behind Sainz.

I actually fear for Ricci now after reading that. Could Max turn RBR upside down? I don't think so. You have Horner and Marko there and they won't take Max' crap or his Dads if they end up being difficult. I think if there's one team you ened to be on your toes on, it's the Red Bull family. They have no problems in moving on a driver if need be. But I get the feeling already, it might still be difficult.

[Emmcee 0]

You don't think Redbull are going to push to try get max to emulate vettel's success? Promote the crap out of him as the face of Redbull.

[spiral.out 0]

The same reason Perez ended up at McLaren. A panic buy due to the other more preferable options no longer being available.

I really don't have much sympathy for a young big head, some would say arrogant driver. I don't like these c#cky 18yr kids coming into the sport. F1 needs men, not babies still learning their craft. It needs ambassadors, not Kyrios' and Tomic' losers.

Kvyat had his chance, now it's Max's turn. I don't like either of these guys. But I do like the type of drivers like Sainz. He doesn't come across anything other than a kid whose working hard and doing what he likes. It's a personality thing, but we all follow our drivers based on personality.

The Maldonado's, the Perez', those guys were just as bad. Big headed, full of themselves and never able to even see they might have stuffed up in a race and caused others to crash out.

Max might sink or swim, who knows, I just hope he stays the hell about from the Ferraris. And Kvyat might hopefully be further back in the pack hit someone else.

The last race, after the safety car, I just shut off the broadcast I was so annoyed. I want to get excited about F1, and these idiots don't add to the show.

Yeah they are big headed immature twats. Unfortunately F1 is completely unable to provide racing like lower categories so its kind of team mate vs team mate the whole way down the field. So in effect no-one can claim to be the outright best anymore. Even the champion.

[radical-one 0]

Kvyat is a Russian torpedo who missed his target lol

[Insider 0]

As usual Ted Kravitz has some good info on this. I wasn't aware STR was in that much turmoil. And if moving Max on from the team is going to help STR settle down, whose been creating the drama? Money is on Max or his Dad, and Ted references fathers. I haven't see Carlos Sainz in the paddock, though I expect to in Barcelona.

WOW. Alot to process there. We saw Max blow up over the radio when behind Sainz.

I actually fear for Ricci now after reading that. Could Max turn RBR upside down? I don't think so. You have Horner and Marko there and they won't take Max' crap or his Dads if they end up being difficult. I think if there's one team you ened to be on your toes on, it's the Red Bull family. They have no problems in moving on a driver if need be. But I get the feeling already, it might still be difficult.

DK is a fine racer and he will comeback as Grosjean has. Someone has to love him, that's all. Max is uber-quick but he has little else going for him in an age of slow cars. Danny Ric is the hottest property on the grid right now and if Ferrari don't sign him they will have missed a trick. My hot tip? Red Bull are going nowhere without a works engine and they are two years away from that. The 2017 regs will just make overtaking a lot harder than it already is.

[KoolMonkey 0]

2017 has no more tokens. So hoping Ferrari can catch up a little, but we'll prob get Merc then winning races by 2mins due to having an even better engine. Then only then will I give them some applause, because the would have won whilst the other teams hands were not tied behind their backs.

[Sakae 0]

Scanning for news, I came across some Russian twitters, and they are mad as hell, blaming, of course, Vettel for the mess - calling him a coward. It just shows that if anyone tries to please everybody then you are setting yourself for a big Fail.

BTW - TR fired some engineers as MV vs Sainz camps are at war for over a year.

[Kati 0]

Scanning for news, I came across some Russian twitters, and they are mad as hell, blaming, of course, Vettel for the mess - calling him a coward. It just shows that if anyone tries to please everybody then you are setting yourself for a big Fail.

BTW - TR fired some engineers as MV vs Sainz camps are at war for over a year.

You'd have to be really ignorant to think it only happened cus of Seb

[Emmcee 0]

Well it looks and sounds like he still has some pull there.

[Sakae 0]

Not that it makes any difference to anyone or anything, but Seb is still on Horner's and Marko's Christmas lists.

[KoolMonkey 0]

I don't see anything wrong with Horner and Marko being very good friends with Seb. At least it's genuine and not phony. Seb doesn't have pull like that however. The decision to replace Kvyat was made long before Russia. It's the incidents and China and Sochi that speed up the replacement schedule.

I like the fact Seb is still friends with Horner and Marko. And I bet drivers like Kimi are still friends with alot of people (not including Permaine the Prick), from his previous teams. Friends are friends. They can move cities, countries, jobs and they are still your friend.

[Sakae 0]

I don't see anything wrong with Horner and Marko being very good friends with Seb. At least it's genuine and not phony. Seb doesn't have pull like that however. The decision to replace Kvyat was made long before Russia. It's the incidents and China and Sochi that speed up the replacement schedule.

I like the fact Seb is still friends with Horner and Marko. And I bet drivers like Kimi are still friends with alot of people (not including Permaine the Prick), from his previous teams. Friends are friends. They can move cities, countries, jobs and they are still your friend.

That's the way I look at it. Kvyat meanwhile secured sponsorship from a Russian billionaire and a venture capitalist.

[Emmcee 0]

Redbull are saying it's down to his pace, this year he is 4-5 tenths of Ricciardo while last year they were dead even apparently, that and he puts to much pressure on himself.

[spiral.out 0]

Its such a shame, cause we know Kvyat would have pwned Ricciardo this year in the long run.

eh WebRic ;)

[Emmcee 0]

lol, then you woke up and changed hands.

[KoolMonkey 0]

Maybe the Kimi will be tossed from Ferrari stories will go away now that Max is tied down. It's like soccer players in Europe. Their managers plant stories in the tabloids and other outlets saying how all the big clubs are going to sign their client. 99.9% its utter made up BS.

Anyway good luck to Max. As long as he doesn't hit a Ferrari I'm cool. As long as he doesn't hit Ricci I'm cool. I couldn't give a toss about the Mercs, so he can bulldoze them anyway, along with Perez and maybe Kvyat just to show him up even more lol

[Emmcee 0]

Yeah I rekon the hype was created by verstappens management and his ego-tistic father.

[Sakae 0]

Regarding spare wing - I know only what I read, and what I understand is, that Webber got the first choice whether he wants it, or not, and he decided not to take it. This was from an interview with him. It's not worth my time to do the search for it today, but for several years, I have been under the impression, that Webber supplied a suitable explanation "as a fact", depends on the circumstances and a mood of the moment. It doesn't matter to me what some friend of a friend whose brother works for RB said, whereas Webber, Horner, and Marko speaking to the camera is enough for me as a source for such subjects. This topic resurfaced hundred times since then and regardless what Webber said, people still pulling that subject out as a crime of the century. Geezzz...

[Emmcee 0]

Webber never said in an interview he never wanted it, where's this interview? Not a story an actually video interview with webber stating this, not marko as I don't trust that clown, webber is also told what to say in interviews along with ever other driver on the grid, that's why there's always a staff member recording there interviews so they can go back and say "you can't say this or that, you have to say this next time" plus when Iam told by this reliable source I have and then read the story and see how much Shane Warne spin is put on it, it makes me lmao. Beleive what you want but I just can't see how a driver would refuse a part that will improve the chassis, mark would've had to tell back at the factory if he wanted one as obviously time was slim that's why only two were made to begin with, now that's sounds like it has a lot more common sense around it doesn't it? I mean Iam just thinking from back in the day when I was racing, I wouldn't knock back anything, I want exactly what he's got, why would you put yourself at risk of falling behind?

[KoolMonkey 0]

Regarding spare wing - I know only what I read, and what I understand is, that Webber got the first choice whether he wants it, or not, and he decided not to take it. This was from an interview with him. It's not worth my time to do the search for it today, but for several years, I have been under the impression, that Webber supplied a suitable explanation "as a fact", depends on the circumstances and a mood of the moment. It doesn't matter to me what some friend of a friend whose brother works for RB said, whereas Webber, Horner, and Marko speaking to the camera is enough for me as a source for such subjects. This topic resurfaced hundred times since then and regardless what Webber said, people still pulling that subject out as a crime of the century. Geezzz...

Sakae, WebRic will never agree that this actually happened, that yes Webber was offered the front wing first but didn't want it. This has happened during races in the years afterwards in other teams, but nope, back in the RBR days, it was utter proof in his mind they were sabotaging and destroying Webbers career and races. I remember clearly Webber saying he didn't want it. He said it, it wasn't rumour. That is fact. But WebRic, will go on for infinity on how this was Marko and Vettel and RBR screwing over Webber and giving preferential treatment. Better to talk about food or the weather honestly.

No matter what he says be it praising Vettel or Kimi, there's always a but but but in there. It's hollow praise to then follow with hammering on those drivers and their fans. Ricci will always be greater than Vettel in his mind. Kimi will always stink, his fans are fanatics and supposedly have caused him grief over the years. Heck he's even posted a hello post to a new member here, staying beware the Kimi fans will get on your case. He'll swear, he'll carry on, and be caught out so many times by factual posts. And when cornered, will end it with, lets agree to disagree. That's his get out of free jail card I suppose lol.

Just in case you didn't know "Emmcee" is "WebRic".

[Sakae 0]

Hmmm, thanks. I've been suspicious of it for some time, but that's OK. This balances things out because I am not buying into this Webber innocence at all. Look, Seb was with RBR in 2014, a different teammate, and again, from what I read, no complaints. Why? It was still the same Vettel. The answer is rather obvious.