Emmcee

Kubica,Renault 2017

41 posts in this topic


Not fit for return on several levels, not to say that he would be taking a good spot from a more deserving candidate. Why would anyone think that this si a good idea?

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Agree.

First off there are many other young rising starts without any previous injury (Sorry for Kubica but it's the truth).

Then there's his activity period plus years away from F1. 

No real strong reason why a team in F1 would be interested with him. Sad to say 

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I am not sure how much thinking the author of that article has done about this subject, but hybrid cars are much more complex than when Nick Heidfeld was behind the wheel. Moreover, next year with wider tires and higher speeds, it is going to be mighty difficult to hold steering safely and steady due to high G-forces; can he pass that test? Lastly, these days when fractions of a second separates drivers how they qualify, they need to have enough sensitivity in hands to feel surface-patch, and get all what tire can give them. Not everyone can do that, and races, I think, would be probably lost if the sensitivity is not there.

Edited by Sakae

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Not a chance on earth Kubica will ever race in F1. Test perhaps, or a token Friday drive. Perhaps something like Zanardi's last 13 lap run, but he'll never race in F1 again.

Even going back to the old cars, without ERS, DRS and all the steering wheel gadgets removed, he'd wouldn't even been able to turn the wheel. Whilst I was not a big fan of his, and felt all the talk of him being an all time great was nonsense, I feel very sorry for him. I imagine there's not a moment of the day where he doesn't regret Rallying that day, or wish things had occured differently. And that's a life sentence of beating yourself up and wishing things were different. I wouldn't wish that upon anyone.

I can't see Kubica even racing in Formula E or GP2. Maybe Le Mans, but again why? He wasn't Schumacher, he was a driver who won one race. The sport has moved on, he's still playing catchup trying to regain mobility in his hand. It's not going to happen.

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30 minutes ago, KoolMonkey said:

Not a chance on earth Kubica will ever race in F1. Test perhaps, or a token Friday drive. Perhaps something like Zanardi's last 13 lap run, but he'll never race in F1 again.

Even going back to the old cars, without ERS, DRS and all the steering wheel gadgets removed, he'd wouldn't even been able to turn the wheel. Whilst I was not a big fan of his, and felt all the talk of him being an all time great was nonsense, I feel very sorry for him. I imagine there's not a moment of the day where he doesn't regret Rallying that day, or wish things had occured differently. And that's a life sentence of beating yourself up and wishing things were different. I wouldn't wish that upon anyone.

I can't see Kubica even racing in Formula E or GP2. Maybe Le Mans, but again why? He wasn't Schumacher, he was a driver who won one race. The sport has moved on, he's still playing catchup trying to regain mobility in his hand. It's not going to happen.

+1

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All made some valid points but apparently he has really good ties with Renault still. Did anyone here think he was a talented driver or just doing well at the time? I always felt that his chances in f1 were always a step behind his ability. I think 2010 he was just finding his sweet spot, I don't think we saw the best of Kubica but that's the way it goes sometimes.

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He looked good against Heidfeld but then a few drivers have looked good alongside Heidfeld.

If I remember rightly (which I may not be) his 1 win in Canada 2008 was largely assisted by the fact that Lewis boshed Kimi in the rear in the pit lane.

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I wasn't much on Kubica until the way he drove in 2010. Incredible.

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I miss Kubica often. Maybe it isn't fully based in reality, but he always reminded me of Alonso when he drove. I think we missed out on a great one.

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I often wonder what shape the grid would be if he was still driving, who would be where?

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Hard to guess and it all depend on which car he's driving. If he's with Williams then he wouldn't do a lot better than Bottas. 

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Hmm hard to say but I think he would've stayed on at lotus and partnered link instead of grosjean though.

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In '09 the missus and I placed a handsome bet on Brawn winning the championship, we're agreed, have the same feeling about Robert's return.  From Italiaracing.net:

" Manager Alessandro Alunni Bravi, who is following Robert at this stage, told Italiaracing : "We are discussing to arrange other tests with the 2012 E20, but for Budapest there is currently nothing concrete. We are working, we still have a few days ahead, let's see if we can. " Bravi pupils then explained Kubica's growth during the E20 test: "Valencia's results were extraordinary. 

I would say that we realized that Robert Kubica had found the levels he had been forced to abandon the races, as the Permane engineer said. "" At Le Castellet, the test was even more stressful, but Robert passed it without problems. Even the test of extraction from the passenger compartment was successful on the first attempt and within the five seconds required. In addition, on a specific request, Robert walked the pit-lane in both directions to check his ability to turn the steering wheel completely, the steering angle. And even here there were no doubts. I think Robert is ready to go back to his levels and he is convinced he has not lost anything. Full article translated from here http://www.italiaracing.net/newsint.aspx?id=229541&cat=1

Regarding his fitness, IMO this is not in any doubt, he's been back in rally cars, WEC, GP3 etc and in his own (recent) words, he now knows he can get back to his 2010 level.

Can't wait :D

 

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57 minutes ago, Medilloni said:

In '09 the missus and I placed a handsome bet on Brawn winning the championship, we're agreed, have the same feeling about Robert's return.  From Italiaracing.net:

" Manager Alessandro Alunni Bravi, who is following Robert at this stage, told Italiaracing : "We are discussing to arrange other tests with the 2012 E20, but for Budapest there is currently nothing concrete. We are working, we still have a few days ahead, let's see if we can. " Bravi pupils then explained Kubica's growth during the E20 test: "Valencia's results were extraordinary. 

I would say that we realized that Robert Kubica had found the levels he had been forced to abandon the races, as the Permane engineer said. "" At Le Castellet, the test was even more stressful, but Robert passed it without problems. Even the test of extraction from the passenger compartment was successful on the first attempt and within the five seconds required. In addition, on a specific request, Robert walked the pit-lane in both directions to check his ability to turn the steering wheel completely, the steering angle. And even here there were no doubts. I think Robert is ready to go back to his levels and he is convinced he has not lost anything. Full article translated from here http://www.italiaracing.net/newsint.aspx?id=229541&cat=1

Regarding his fitness, IMO this is not in any doubt, he's been back in rally cars, WEC, GP3 etc and in his own (recent) words, he now knows he can get back to his 2010 level.

Can't wait :D

 

Hey Med. Geez... long time long time

Kubica recovery is really AMAZING. I always had the impression his hand function could never ever be restored because of nerve end damage. Ive always admired the guy as a racer, hope he can reach that level again

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Hiya BSM, yes it's been a while, I like to lurk though :)

Have followed Robert's progress for a long time - his surgeon said the nerve damage would take longer to heal (than the bone and tissue damage) but what an effort he's put in to get back. Interviews over the last month he's been cautious but getting more confident he'll be back to his previous best....

Edited by Medilloni
typo

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Robert now confirmed for Hungary testing in the current car:

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/280281/1/kubica-confirmed-for-posthungary-f1-test-with-renault.html


"The first two days of testing allowed both Robert and ourselves to gather a great amount of information," Renault F1 chief Cyril Abiteboul said.

"The upcoming session with the R.S.17 at the Hungaroring will allow us all to obtain detailed and precise data in a current car and representative conditions.

"After this test, we will carefully analyse the collected information to determine in what conditions it would be possible for Robert to return to competition in the upcoming years."

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24 July 2017,  11:11

Is this a publicity stunt, mercy gesture, or simply way out of shortage of suitable drivers to replace Palmer? Both, Renault, and I hope also Kubica must be aware of risk he will be undertaking, and consequences for him in terms of what could be life long disability after hitting a barrier, and a steering wheel potentially breaking his hands. One should ask what about long term impact of significant vibrations transmitted continuously through steering wheel, and similar reasons, be those health related or simply technical. I hope sanity will prevail at the end, he will come to terms with being blessed that he could recover as much as he has, he will stop pushing his luck and let it go. Its over.

Edited by Sakae

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27 minutes ago, Sakae said:

24 July 2017,  11:11

Is this a publicity stunt, mercy gesture, or simply way out of shortage of suitable drivers to replace Palmer? Both, Renault, and I hope also Kubica must be aware of risk he will be undertaking, and consequences for him in terms of what could be life long disability after hitting a barrier, and a steering wheel potentially breaking his hands. One should ask what about long term impact of significant vibrations transmitted continuously through steering wheel, and similar reasons, be those health related or simply technical. I hope sanity will prevail at the end, he will come to terms with being blessed that he could recover as much as he has, he will stop pushing his luck and let it go. Its over.

He might put other drivers at risk if he's not 100% capable. So he needs to be carefully monitored. It's a case of really bad judgement, the consequence of having a disastrous rally "exercise" before the start of a crucial F1 season.

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4 hours ago, BradSpeedMan said:

He might put other drivers at risk if he's not 100% capable. So he needs to be carefully monitored. It's a case of really bad judgement, the consequence of having a disastrous rally "exercise" before the start of a crucial F1 season.

24 July 2017,  13:04

Absolutely, and I am glad that I am not alone to see this. Kubica has already left his employer in a difficult situation once after they tried to propitiate him, and now he will do it second time for his own interest, exposing the team to risk that in mid season he might perhaps need to step down for health reasons? I am not aligned with Renault's thinking at all about this, but as they say, it's their deal.

Edited by Sakae

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I find this thread quite amusing. Especially the way some posters keep repeating that Kubica's comeback is impossible even though more and more new facts contradict such opinion. Interesting psychological phenomenon.
Anyway, here are some facts for you, so you wont be suprised seeing Kubica racing in 2017:
-during his first test in e20 he was faster than Sirotkin
-during his second test in e20 he drove through tightest corners of Paul Ricard, he even drove to the pit-lane from other direction to test his arm mobility
-both test were full racing weekend sims (115 and 90 laps)
-before tests in F1 he tested single seaters without power steering (GP3)
-after the first test in e20 he went through extensive medical tests in the center chosen by Renault, and his results were no different to other F1 drivers
-he tested in various F1 and other single seaters simulators: Mercedes, Red Bull, Renault, Dallara (the last one on regular basis)
-according to some respected journos he was faster in Renault simulator than Hulkenberg
-his first e20 test was organized because part of old Renault (mainly Alan Permane) staff valued his input and work ethics

You may belive in what you want, but these are facts. And when it comes to opinions I value Permane's judgement over some anonymus internet haters.
For every unbiased observer Kubica's comeback after life threatining accident, 18 operations, and 6 years of rehabilitation is greatest comeback in history of F1, whatever the outcome. 

So, you're gonna have to deal with it,  because its coming.

Edited by Walsingham

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2 hours ago, Walsingham said:

I find this thread quite amusing. Especially the way some posters keep repeating that Kubica's comeback is impossible even though more and more new facts contradict such opinion. Interesting psychological phenomenon.
Anyway, here are some facts for you, so you wont be suprised seeing Kubica racing in 2017:
-during his first test in e20 he was faster than Sirotkin
-during his second test in e20 he drove through tightest corners of Paul Ricard, he even drove to the pit-lane from other direction to test his arm mobility
-both test were full racing weekend sims (115 and 90 laps)
-before tests in F1 he tested single seaters without power steering (GP3)
-after the first test in e20 he went through extensive medical tests in the center chosen by Renault, and his results were no different to other F1 drivers
-he tested in various F1 and other single seaters simulators: Mercedes, Red Bull, Renault, Dallara (the last one on regular basis)
-according to some respected journos he was faster in Renault simulator than Hulkenberg
-his first e20 test was organized because part of old Renault (mainly Alan Permane) staff valued his input and work ethics

You may belive in what you want, but these are facts. And when it comes to opinions I value Permane's judgement over some anonymus internet haters.
For every unbiased observer Kubica's comeback after life threatining accident, 18 operations, and 6 years of rehabilitation is greatest comeback in history of F1, whatever the outcome. 

So, you're gonna have to deal with it,  because its coming.

Interesting facts. I did'nt find the time to carefully monitor his progress in single seaters, you must have followed his progress diligently and with keen interest. I applaud you for that.

I also however find some of your other comments rather amusing, especially the reference to some ananomous internet haters. Fair enough, some of the comments were based on some disbelief on him returning, and it's remarkable that he recovered to such extent that he would be considered for a drive. No one is hating on the guy, in fact, the possibility of him racing again in F1 is mouth-watering. Such a great talent wasted by a mistake of his own doing. I hope his return is successful, I'de hate it if his return is marked by another silly mistake or judgement.

Edited by BradSpeedMan

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24 July 2017,  22:50

There is no evidence that this driver will be physically able to compete tirelessly and consistently through the season at top level margins unhindered by his handicap. He might do well, but surely one should ask relevant questions how realistic is positive outcome of this experiment? Driving a race distance during a test on Monday is one thing, driving 22 to 25 of those under competitive conditions, many in weekly succession, tired or not, is again something else. At the end it's not only about him, but also a team which can potentially waste the season by making wrong choices in driver's line up.
 

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3 hours ago, Walsingham said:

I find this thread quite amusing. Especially the way some posters keep repeating that Kubica's comeback is impossible even though more and more new facts contradict such opinion. Interesting psychological phenomenon.
Anyway, here are some facts for you, so you wont be suprised seeing Kubica racing in 2017:
-during his first test in e20 he was faster than Sirotkin
-during his second test in e20 he drove through tightest corners of Paul Ricard, he even drove to the pit-lane from other direction to test his arm mobility
-both test were full racing weekend sims (115 and 90 laps)
-before tests in F1 he tested single seaters without power steering (GP3)
-after the first test in e20 he went through extensive medical tests in the center chosen by Renault, and his results were no different to other F1 drivers
-he tested in various F1 and other single seaters simulators: Mercedes, Red Bull, Renault, Dallara (the last one on regular basis)
-according to some respected journos he was faster in Renault simulator than Hulkenberg
-his first e20 test was organized because part of old Renault (mainly Alan Permane) staff valued his input and work ethics

You may belive in what you want, but these are facts. And when it comes to opinions I value Permane's judgement over some anonymus internet haters.
For every unbiased observer Kubica's comeback after life threatining accident, 18 operations, and 6 years of rehabilitation is greatest comeback in history of F1, whatever the outcome. 

So, you're gonna have to deal with it,  because its coming.

This.

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11 hours ago, Sakae said:

24 July 2017,  22:50

There is no evidence that this driver will be physically able to compete tirelessly and consistently through the season at top level margins unhindered by his handicap. He might do well, but surely one should ask relevant questions how realistic is positive outcome of this experiment? Driving a race distance during a test on Monday is one thing, driving 22 to 25 of those under competitive conditions, many in weekly succession, tired or not, is again something else. At the end it's not only about him, but also a team which can potentially waste the season by making wrong choices in driver's line up.
 

Fair enough, my point is Renault has enough resources to assess his abilities and disabilites. Certainly more than bunch of anonymous  internet users who havent seen Kubica since 2011. As I wrote in my previous post this is quite long, systematic, well thought and carefully executed process, and not some kind of one time stunt as you suggest.  They've been preparing this step by step since at least a year. During that process they gathered enough evidence for them to make informed judgement and answer questions you ask. The fact that you dont have access to this evidence doesnt meant it doesnt exist.

One reading your posts could think RenaultF1 management are either bunch of amateurs who have no clue how to evaluate drivers, or charity organization that fullfils life dreams of disabled kids, and  Kubica is Black Knight from Monty Python Holy Grail, who forced Renault to allow him drive car using some jedi mind tricks. From what I know Renault is 40 years in this bussiness and they are as ruthless and profesional as any other F1 team, and Kubica was rallying various WRC cars since 2012:

 

Edited by Walsingham

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