Next season

[Sakae 0]

Melbourne - 84 days to go!

[Unknown? 0]

22 hours ago, radical-one said:

Which is what real racing is all about, pure over taking without stupid DRS aid....

I agree. I'm no fan of DRS and I'd much rather 'natural' overtaking, however with the modern aerodynamic dependent cars without DRS the races would become even more processional -Abu Dhabi 2010, Alonso/Petrov processional. 

[Sakae 0]

Pascal will drive for Sauber.

[radical-one 0]

26 minutes ago, Sakae said:

Pascal will drive for Sauber.

Yep I am happy for Pascal. One step closer to top team.

All is Done.

Pascal Sauber, Bottas Merc, Massa Williams.

Let's get it ON !

[radical-one 0]

1 hour ago, Unknown? said:

I agree. I'm no fan of DRS and I'd much rather 'natural' overtaking, however with the modern aerodynamic dependent cars without DRS the races would become even more processional -Abu Dhabi 2010, Alonso/Petrov processional. 

True.But in that sense, If they take away DRS, they should able to make adjustments in the overall aero to keep the car's stability, etc. 

[Unknown? 0]

1 hour ago, Sakae said:

Pascal will drive for Sauber.

He should have stayed at Manor if his only other option was Sauber. It'll be a graveyard over there next season with the 2016 Ferrari power unit. Ocon will firmly outshine him in the FI and that'll be that for Pascal. 

[Sakae 0]

I have feeling that Wehrlein's career in F1 has been just now defined in most cruel terms right before our eyes, namely, destined to remain always mid pack teams racer, who was never given opportunity to shine with any of top four. Sort of a second odd case of Hülkenberg.

[KoolMonkey 0]

Sakae I agree on Pascal. He's been overlooked twice now. Once for FI and now with Merc.

I see it like this. Either Hamilton fears Pascal, or Toto's vested interest in Bottas has affected the decision. It's all well and good when Toto says he will no longer be Bottas' manager... AFTER he gets him the Merc seat. That's still a massive conflict in my view.

Pascal comes out as the loser no matter how you look at all this. He should be in the Merc, not Bottas. Hamilton has no loyalty to that team and will walk when it suits him. I hope they have a buyback clause or can call upon Pascal when they need him.

Going to Sauber is a rubbish move, but he doesn't have any other options. Sauber have sucked for over a decade, if not longer. Kimi and Massa have been the only two drivers to advance to proper front running teams.

All in all, whilst I am not shocked by Mercs decision, I am disgusted about it. Max has been a great addition to F1. I still am livid at his driving antics (brake checking Kimi at SPA), but if he can contain that and develop into a fair racer, he will be around a long time. We have been robbed of seeing Pascal go up against Max. There are only two people I blame for this. Hamilton and Toto. And honestly I don't see any love towards those guys from anyone accept the Brit press.

[Emmcee 0]

It's lucky pascal didn't get screwed over the sauber seat either. I heard his talks with sauber were put on hold at some point when he was considered for the Mercedes seat. Imagine then if sauber didn't wait and just resigned Nasr? Not that there's anything wrong with that as Nasr is the other good driver getting screwed in all this, but where would've werhlein gone then? I agree with you monkey on this, the only reason pascal was "shafted" was purely because of wolffs association with bottas, plain and simple. Otherwise why would Mercedes over look werhlein after the millions they have invested in him? Not a conflict of Interest Mercedes reckons, my a$$ it's not. This is the sad world of f1 nowadays, so many talented drivers get overlooked because they don't have the money or connections you need now, it's complete bullsh17.

[Sakae 0]

Wehrlein might have been overlooked by Mercedes people in England for other reasons, than money or lack of connections. I've felt for a while that for a seat with a front team young driver needs a year or so with a mid level team, such as Williams or TR. A jump from Manor to Merc seemed really risky for them. I am aware that not too many will agree with me about it, but after hearing from Lauda, it was possibility that lack of mid-level experience will be held against him, and it was.

[KoolMonkey 0]

I think in Pascal's case yes, a year at Williams, FI or TR would be great. But by not promoting him, his career I think will falter. Bottas isn't going to set the world alight. At this point he's a known known. Seeing how Max flourished moving up from TR to RBR was a good example. Pascal might take a little bit to settle in at Merc, but he's still going to be better than Bottas. And seriously, Merc are going to win this year anyway with Glamilton the Knobb probably then being hailed the greatest and offered a knighthood. It doesn't take much to get a knighthood in the UK anymore if you're a sportsman.

I know it wasn't perfect going from Manor to Merc, but the negatives are too great. They could end a career with this decision, and then who is going to be Mercs future?

Imagine Pascal at Merc, Max at RBR and Stoffel at McLaren all duking it out. It has the setup to be epic in the coming years.

[Sakae 0]

We should perhaps not forget that next to Pascal there is Kvyat and Sainz, both whom I consider as victims in this musical chair mess. I have no problem RB did not promote Sainz, it was their choice, but then, based on Horner's rhetoric, it sounded like the blocked his move to Mercedes, and effectively derailed his career progress as well, because this might have been his only opportunity to make it to the front.

[Unknown? 0]

All good points raised above. So far as I can see it PW is done in F1 - the new Hulkenberg. Criminally undervalued IMO. Although I can't see Lewis vetoing his move to Mercedes. I don't think he fears PW at all any more than any other driver.

 DK at TR is done. Nowhere to go after next season. CSj has an outside chance of replacing DR at RB for 2018 if he has another good year and then only IF MV gives Daniel a solid beating. If not.. maybe he'll head to Ferrari as I can't see SV and/or KR there longer than next year. 

The Red Bull family is a graveyard. Only SV has managed to escape to another team. All the rest seem to retire or are pushed out of the sport. 

Nasr.. Not much chance to shine in the Sauber. Not enough backing or experience to warrant a Williams drive. Not sure where that leaves him.

[Emmcee 0]

What if Mercedes only sign bottas for a one year deal? Then tell us it's up to performance for him to get anymore, will that leave the door open for werhelin after one year at sauber? It's still stupid IMO because it's not like he is a rookie rookie per say, after all he is dtm champion and going from one discipline to another and being relatively quick from the word go should proove something to Mercedes and that's his ability to adapt rapidly. I think the time is upon us now that we can safely say you don't need talent to drive in f1, just a fat wallet. Daniel Ricciardo is the newest f1 winner that didn't get there because his dad was an ex driver or has a fat wallet and his is concidered a veteran of some sorts now with this being his 5th full season he is about to start. Pretty sad in a way, I know pay drivers have always been around but they would get back market seats, now it's creeping further and further up the grid. Could you imagine in the 1990s if someone told you Williams would be struggling for cash and need pay drivers to survive? You would've laughed at them.

[Sakae 0]

If Bottas was promised 2017 only, and he is in fact on a loaner to Mercedes, he could maybe replace Massa back at Williams in 2018. I wonder if lawyers are still on holiday, or what is actually holding things up, and preventing Merc from public announcement what the deal is. Is anybody ready for a shocker if it is not Bottas?

[Emmcee 0]

That's a good point and something I haven't concidered that he could possibly be on loan. That makes some sense as to why maybe werhelin was knocked back until he gets more races under his belt but again just speculation. As the answer to your next question that if its not bottas would mean massa was just a "plan b" option in the case a bottas deal couldn't be done. It has to be bottas now doesn't it? Surely besides werhlein the only other option would be button. Now Hamilton has publicly said that the team with consult him on who they pick and with button technically beating him at mclaren when they were teammates, you think Lewis could be persuaded into another partnership with jenson? IMO button would be the best pick as he knows the team and personnel as most are still ex brawn employees. That would result in less time needed to feel comfortable and more time focussing on the car and with redbull already favourites in this so called aero era, Mercedes needs this IMO.

[Unknown? 0]

Good reasoning Sakae, I hadn't considered the loan option. Maybe the future isn't so dark for PW after all if this is the case. Perhaps the ultimate hold up is Massa. If Williams send Bottas to Mercedes without Massa confirming that would leave them with one absolute rookie (Stroll) and an empty seat. Worst case scenario for a team like Williams heading into the unknown of next season's regulations even if they secure cheaper engine supply by whoring out Bottas. 

Surely Stroll brings enough Williams don't even need cheaper engine deals?

[Sakae 0]

Where is Button in the whole scheme? Nobody is talking about him, but I am puzzled if everything is actually sorted out. Media have it done in their pages of cyber ink, but I doubt they know more than we do. Money demands by Button would put him probably rather into Rosberg's car, than Williams. Releasing Pascal to Sauber implies, that Merc has a deal (with someone). Is it however Bottas? Button? Anybody...

[Emmcee 0]

2 hours ago, Unknown? said:

Good reasoning Sakae, I hadn't considered the loan option. Maybe the future isn't so dark for PW after all if this is the case. Perhaps the ultimate hold up is Massa. If Williams send Bottas to Mercedes without Massa confirming that would leave them with one absolute rookie (Stroll) and an empty seat. Worst case scenario for a team like Williams heading into the unknown of next season's regulations even if they secure cheaper engine supply by whoring out Bottas. 

Surely Stroll brings enough Williams don't even need cheaper engine deals?

That's a valid point but Williams and any team will save whatever they can. If they let bottas go and get a cheaper engine deal while securing strolls money makes more available to spend on development in hopes of closing the gap to the front. The issue isn't power as we all know that, it the car in general. Actually that makes quite abit of sense when you look at the rediculous offer they offered massa, it was less than last year and they want him to come out of retirement. So to me, it looks like there is more than meets the eye in this scenario. As much as I would love to see button in either car and him being the most sensible choice, I don't think we will see him tbh.

[KoolMonkey 0]

Unknown you're right about the Red Bull family being a graveyard. It's brutal, but in a way it works. They go for and support the best in all the sports they sponsor.

Sainz will escape and find another team I think. He's too good not to. Kvyat was too arrogant and it caught up with him I feel. Red Bull did block any team from signing Sainz as they must feel that Ricci or Max will ultimately be leaving at some point. And having Sainz to then take one of the seats is a very smart move. But if it doesn't happen... then Sainz loses big time.

Sakae, your loan theory is a good one. But Bottas' manager is Toto and thus I think he'll be trying to get him a better deal than just 1 one year loan.

Why didn't Merc offer Pascal in exchange for Bottas and an engine discount!? It would have been cheaper, a whole lot easier to sign off on, and the Williams is still a better car than Sauber, thus meaning for Pascal he gets to drive a proper car. I still think Claire is not qualified to run that team. I don't want to say nepotism, but seriously if she wasn't the daugther of Frank, there's not a chance she would have been running that team. The greatest loss to Williams has been losing Frank and Patrick and not having anyone remotely of their talent to take over.

Sakae, you touched one something interesting... what if Merc are not signing Bottas!? Williams haven't annouched their full driver lineup, so clearly he's in the frame. Button going to Merc would be fantastic. Button going to Williams would be even more awesome. Massa doesn't need the money, but like Rubens despite saying they'd never drive for a back marker team, they eeck out a couple of last desparate years to stay in the circus. I don't think Massa had any intention of actually retiring, rather he was told there was no longer a seat for him, and thus they allowed him to "retire". He's not the holdup here, it's Merc/Williams/Bottas or another mystery driver that's causing the delay.

[radical-one 0]

On 1/3/2017 at 0:51 AM, Sakae said:

I have feeling that Wehrlein's career in F1 has been just now defined in most cruel terms right before our eyes, namely, destined to remain always mid pack teams racer, who was never given opportunity to shine with any of top four. Sort of a second odd case of Hülkenberg.

So sad as I am a Pascal fan. I hope he still gets another shot at a bigger team down the road.

[Emmcee 0]

@KoolMonkey

your interpretation of massa being "squeezed" out makes abit of sense as Williams obviously we're hoping to get button and maybe still could. It just seems a lot of stuff in the air doesn't seem right, most people know who the Mercedes seat is out of so why a delay in announcing it? Bottas was spotted at the Mercedes factory but that could also mean he was there just to meet toto to weigh up his options.

[Sakae 0]

Has Mercedes (and probably RBR as well) used in last season a kind of suspension which FiA has now declared "not legal", after Ferrari requested clarification? It appears we are in a war zone again, or at least heading into one. Linguistic nuance aside, Ferrari has not accused anyone from cheating, however requested clarification of rules, and the one that was received shall (most likely) affect some teams, as them having raced with non-compliant equipment since last season. Future, not last season results, is in stake.

[KoolMonkey 0]

We've known for some time now that Merc have been running a special kind of suspension. Might explain how after their illegal tyre test that immediately won, and then continued to do so. Beacuse their weakness before that "test" was how quickly their cars destroyed the tyres.

Que all the Vettel haters and Ferrari bashers piling on them and claiming this is Ferrari complaining. All teams have the right to ask the FIA for clarrification when it comes to rules and designs. At least this is happening before the season as when something is deemed legal at the start of the year, it honestly stinks when it's them deemed illagal during the year.

I don't want this to be the way to beat Merc, but if it's now deemed illegal, then so be it, it's illegal.

[Sakae 0]

Timing is right and on side of Ferrari. Raising such question in Melbourne, as some suggested for greater impact, would end up under pressure and outcome in some FiA cooked and convoluted compromise, instead clear cut decision. Ferrari has of course right to ask for clarification before they begin their own development, and consequently waste money. Vilification of Ferrari of course continues, and being hateful and nasty seems flavor of our time. Next to Mercedes, RBR is also not entirely in the clear on this deviation.