2017 Mclaren

[Sakae 0]

There are no technical reasons why non-factory team cannot win races. Engines Mercedes provides for its customers are the same they use. Depends of your purchasing agreement and deep pockets, but it is possible to receive latest updates, change mapping, etc. Where teams fail is in vehicle construction and non-optimised integration.

[lipstick79 0]

To finish first, first you must finish - something McLaren-Honda are not doing.

Go with what works - then can start optimising for performance.

[Sakae 0]

Some will disagree with me, however I think you can slow down temporarily a fast car while working on reliability issues, and then go full forward at later date. You will however never win a race under normal conditions with a slow car, never-mind how reliable it is. Panis would have an argument with me about it, because he won with his slow Ligier his only race in 1996 in Monaco, a race with highest attrition rate EVER. Only handful of cars (3?) crossed the FINISH line in that race. Ok, but that was very unique case in whole F1 history.

I do suspect, that Honda these days is running in detuned conditions while they are working on their reliability issues. (Just guessing).

[Publius Cornelius Scipio 0]

53 minutes ago, Sakae said:

I do suspect, that Honda these days is running in detuned conditions while they are working on their reliability issues. (Just guessing).

I think that they are running at 100% but they have no power and no reliability, I think that their 2017 project is a total failure and they should go back to their 2016 engine and work on improving that one

[Sakae 0]

Honda, in speculative terms, might be working on two tracks, something that I would do in this stage. It's too late to shut the door for this year.

2018 project, and getting through this season as best as they can.

[Publius Cornelius Scipio 0]

1 hour ago, Sakae said:

It's too late to shut the door for this year.

Is it too early to shut the doot for this season or is it too late already? I just happened to come across this article, interesting reading isn't it? it seems that quite a few people have lost any hope in Honda for 2017, Jenson Button and Mark Webber among others

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns36378.html

[Sakae 0]

People who either are, or were associated in some capacity with engineering aspects of product development probably can guess what kind of environment Honda should be working in. They might not be specific, however they could attest that traveling around the globe, being constantly under pressure by short term disruptive aims is definitely not what's needed. Prime reasons why I have suggested some time ago, that they should avoid noise, have stepped back from this season, stay at home, and test at Suzuka whenever it would serve the purpose. Focused, highly controlled process. Come back in 2018.

[Publius Cornelius Scipio 0]

1 hour ago, Sakae said:

People who either are, or were associated in some capacity with engineering aspects of product development probably can guess what kind of environment Honda should be working in. 

I think that it's fair to assume that the good people of Honda are working under the very same environment that had to face the good people of Renault or Ferrari a few years ago, what I cannot understand about this situation is why judge what Honda did with a different standard from the one used to judge what Renault, Ferrari or previously Toyota, etc did? why are they different? They have been working for many years at a formula 1 Power Unit, sadly they have failed to deliver, they had plenty of time and plenty of resources yet they failed. Why do we always need to find excuses for Honda's failures?

Even Honda ackowledged that their approach was wrong and have decided that they are going to work with outsiders in order to come up with a decent product, why can't we accept this? the people at Honda are humans like the people at Renault, Ferrari, Mercedes, Toyota, BMW, etc, they can make mistakes, we all make mistakes, Honda made many many mistakes. Accepting that one made a mistake is the best way to overcome your difficulties, finally the management at Honda accepted this, so why spending so much time trying to come up with unlikely defences for Honda? 

[Sakae 0]

Honda came one year late to the party in active terms, and who knows how late in pre-active era. This delta in performance is not a linear relationship of easy additions and subtractions. Sophistication of three PU makers in later years increased exponentially, and Honda in all likelihood will approach also such steep slope of growth, but for now got caught up in lower levels by some trivialities and roadblocks which need to move out of the way first. It is slowing them down, whereas the others are already in top gear and speeding away. It looks terrible, but I do not see anything unusual how to understand their problems. Unless there is hidden (not revealed to public) inherent design flaw in their concept, than it is not IF, but WHEN they converge with others. As far as I know, there are no outsiders right now tasked to work with program. There was some blah blah we will help, but people sometimes do talk too much. Do not follow words, but follow hand is still a valid wisdom. 

I am sorry if I gave anyone impression of excessive fandom of Honda, but that's not a case at all. Actually my sympathetic heart is with men who do work for Honda. Their struggle is something I have behind me in my practice as well many years ago, and I can imagine how tired they must be. History of Honda is unique, and essential for understanding, how the organization works.  That's all. Least I can do is to stay out of the way, and let them be.

[Sakae 0]

Apparently Boullier is in Monaco, rather than with Alonso (as he said he would). Probably switched places with Brown. I think it was a correct decision. He is a team's racing manager after all, and his drivers are in Monaco. (Unless he takes off tomorrow, but I hope not). Honda did well. Maybe not exceptionally well, but better than usual.

[Sakae 0]

Button was quoted in Monaco that he (feels) alone has a (reserve) driver-contract with McLaren for next year. I think he let go a few slightly confusing signals. In one interview he has suggested that he is done with F1 (and maybe moving to NASCAR), yet in other interview he sounded like he might be driving next year again with McLaren. Is Vandoorne therefore an endangered species? I am assuming of course that Alonso is staying.

[Sakae 0]

Quote

Ex-McLaren CEO Jost Capito heads back to VW (after short lived affair - not his fault)

Considering everything, Jost Capito is inadvertently a lucky man. Someone was holding his protective hand over him. 

[lipstick79 0]

On ‎08‎/‎05‎/‎2017 at 5:24 AM, Sakae said:

There are no technical reasons why non-factory team cannot win races. Engines Mercedes provides for its customers are the same they use. Depends of your purchasing agreement and deep pockets, but it is possible to receive latest updates, change mapping, etc. Where teams fail is in vehicle construction and non-optimised integration.

Re:...Where teams fail is in vehicle construction and non-optimised integration

>English PLEASE

[lipstick79 0]

The McLaren Peugeot is performing better than the 2017 Mclaren Honda !!

[Sakae 0]

2 hours ago, lipstick79 said:

Re:...Where teams fail is in vehicle construction and non-optimized integration

>English PLEASE

Think about it this way. You have a nice dress, and you get yourself a pair of nicely matching shoes. (Shoes = Engine for work team, fully optimized, integrated setup).

Someone else buys a different but also a beautiful dress, however shoes and accessories are awful and do not match. (Failed, non-optimized integration of engine with rest of the equipment. Vehicle architecture and engine are in disharmony, just like those shoes).

[lipstick79 0]

What I DON`T understand is, how Honda could get it soo wrong.

I know with the limited testing rules, but They can test, unofficially.
The F1 PU & concept, CAN B dropped into a DIFFERENT formula, to test
They can run the PU & concept in a F3 car, around Suzuka - their OWN track
As much as they like, and send the results to Woking

[Sakae 0]

I am not sure that is true. Once they officially entered championship, they, like all other entrants have to abide by certain restrictive rules. There were some minor exceptions afforded to them by FiA in 2015 (they got more tokens), but that's it (as far as I am aware off).

[lipstick79 0]

Think about it, it obviously IS true.
Honda are in F3

F3 CAN test.

Adapt the F3 PU to trial a F1 concept
If it is successful, run with it on the F1 PU

[Sakae 0]

Alonso is being quoted that for him to stay with McLaren (and F1), he needs to win this season. He ended with - I can go to another series (if I don't find anything suitable in F1). For casual observer it sounds like his trip to Indy created opportunity for him. Wasn't that a goal in the first place? McLaren wants to be in Indy too, after all. In summary, Alonso might be leaving McLaren, Honda might be leaving McLaren, and the only open issue is then, who is the supplier of the new PU? Renault? I doubt that it would be Ferrari or MB. 

[lipstick79 0]

I`m thinking that the next PU supplier to McLaren WILL be something like;
Accord or Civic
Following the Red Bull Renault approach

[lipstick79 0]

If we are winning before September, when I will make a decision, I will stay
>The irony is, that it WILL B Stoffell !!!

[Sakae 0]

ZAK BROWN: NO CONFLICT OF INTERESTS

Well, there is a lot of this these days. News outlets own by one person, TV sport station owned by and writing about racing teams (very unique position in its own standing) with the same owner, whilst free to critique others, etc.  As someone said, first casualty of war is the truth. I think the same could be said about such business practices. I am not so sure this is a good thing.   

MCLAREN AND HONDA COULD SPLIT IN 'TWO RACES TIME'

Wow.

[radical-one 0]

Sauber is ready to WORKS with Honda from next year so McLaren can hit the road whenever they want...

[Publius Cornelius Scipio 0]

7 hours ago, Sakae said:

MCLAREN AND HONDA COULD SPLIT IN 'TWO RACES TIME'

Wow.

It would be interesting to know how McLaren is faring from a financial point of view. It's true that Honda is giving them USD100m per year but the loss of income due to no points and no title sponsor is likely higher than that figure. So McLaren could find itself in a situation where they need to earn some points in order not to go bankrupt, therefore they might try to force Honda to terminate their agreement, buy a few Mercedes PUs and try to gain enough points so that they can end the season either5th or 6th in the WCC.

We only look at this situation from a sporting point of view but Zak has to pay several hundered employees at the end of each month, he has to pay suppliers, development, etc, if the results are not coming it means that $$$ are not coming, and without $$$ any business is doomed

[Sakae 0]

1 hour ago, Publius Cornelius Scipio said:

It would be interesting to know how McLaren is faring from a financial point of view. It's true that Honda is giving them USD100m per year but the loss of income due to no points and no title sponsor is likely higher than that figure. So McLaren could find itself in a situation where they need to earn some points in order not to go bankrupt, therefore they might try to force Honda to terminate their agreement, buy a few Mercedes PUs and try to gain enough points so that they can end the season either5th or 6th in the WCC.

We only look at this situation from a sporting point of view but Zak has to pay several hundered employees at the end of each month, he has to pay suppliers, development, etc, if the results are not coming it means that $$$ are not coming, and without $$$ any business is doomed

If I understand this correctly, McLaren is not paying for Honda's PU, but I am not entirely sure of it. They have some really sweet deal with Honda.