2017 Mclaren

[Caesar 0]

4 hours ago, BradSpeedMan said:

Yes. Same problem this side on mobile side Caesar.

Great insight on the Mclaren woes. Learned abit on the technical side. Great stuff

EDIT: Sorry again. Meant to quote Caesar on the mobile problem. Another problem with the mobile...was quoting him, then it quoted something else

Mobile version is litle bit problematic

[Emmcee 0]

4 hours ago, Sakae said:

Mainly British media (add Spanish) continue to relentlessly pound the Japanese automaker, and at this stage I would say enough is enough. Point was made many times over, now let them work. The McLaren team has on staff probably one or two overpaid people who should be dealing with it, so let them to show what are they made off, methinks. There was a lot of boasting about iconic relationship, so now respect that. The season for McLaren-Honda seems screwed for foreseeable future, we got that. Life goes on.

Because they only advantage they have is f1. Come road cars and no one beats the Japanese.

[maure 1]

4 hours ago, Sakae said:

Mainly British media (add Spanish) continue to relentlessly pound the Japanese automaker, and at this stage I would say enough is enough. Point was made many times over, now let them work. The McLaren team has on staff probably one or two overpaid people who should be dealing with it, so let them to show what are they made off, methinks. There was a lot of boasting about iconic relationship, so now respect that. The season for McLaren-Honda seems screwed for foreseeable future, we got that. Life goes on.

Different media, different motives and objectives. The British are gloating over Alonso's misfortunes, as usual. The Spaniards want a decent (proper?) car.

I agree that in a normal world there is no advantage to harassing Honda. But a competition, and specially F1, is not the normal world.

And Honda has fvcked up, now 3 seasons in a row, which makes McLaren's row a baker's dozen (further fueling the British need for scapegoats).

Anyway, the (ugly) British don't matter. The rest of the universe is going through the five stages of grief. There yet remains a long way to go to reach acceptance.

Because the fact is that Macca is out again and, bottom line, Alonso won't be given a chance to drive. It's a loss to all F1 (except the uglies).

[Emmcee 0]

Written of again?

[Sakae 0]

8 hours ago, maure said:

Different media, different motives and objectives. The British are gloating over Alonso's misfortunes, as usual. The Spaniards want a decent (proper?) car.

I agree that in a normal world there is no advantage to harassing Honda. But a competition, and specially F1, is not the normal world.

And Honda has fvcked up, now 3 seasons in a row, which makes McLaren's row a baker's dozen (further fueling the British need for scapegoats).

Anyway, the (ugly) British don't matter. The rest of the universe is going through the five stages of grief. There yet remains a long way to go to reach acceptance.

Because the fact is that Macca is out again and, bottom line, Alonso won't be given a chance to drive. It's a loss to all F1 (except the uglies).

I feel for you, maure. My morning, in contrast, is just beautiful and sunny. 

[Sakae 0]

AMuS is reporting on problems beyond six engines in eight days, yet went vastly unreported in media, in reference to the trouble with the battery and the electronics for which McLaren has to take some responsibility. From now on it is not useful beating up on this union, but with interest to watch, how this situation will be managed, and whether new CEO is up to the task in hand. I think it is serious crisis for them, admitted or not.

[lipstick79 0]

Quote

McLaren-Honda woes

It is NOT rocket science,  I can`t believe they wasted soo much time & running just identifying the cause of their problem                     .

The PU works with NO problems on the dyno
Put the PU into the car - problems begin

They spent many man hours- between UK & Japan, trying to solve the issue
Rebuilding the PU over & over.

SIMPLE logic dictates.

The PU works with NO problems on the dyno
Put the PU into the car - problems begin
The PU works with NO problems on the dyno
Put the PU into the car - problems begin
The difference between the 2 situations is
The assembly of the PU onto the chassis
THAT`S where the problem  IS
The problem  is NOT with the PU
The problem  IS,  the guys in Woking have put the PU in wrong!!

 

[Sakae 0]

Sorry, but I don't think so it's that straightforward. Its possible, and error in assembly do happen (not too often though), but repeated error (6 engines were assembled) is almost unheard off. There could be also other causes at the core of those issues. They have to go one by one through this, and find governing elements, as some others will be simply consequential. I am sure they know what they are doing, but Honda is in the pickle. They need time, yet instead time, they are having McLaren asking for good engines to be shipped to Oz. Now!! Suddenly I feel sorry for Hasegawa.

[lipstick79 0]

It IS that straight forward.

The design layout to house the PU,  IS the problem

By putting a number of different PU in place - is consistent with Einsteins theory:
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over, but expecting different results.

All the different PU were assembled in the same position

[Sakae 0]

17 minutes ago, lipstick79 said:

All the different PU were assembled in the same position

It might be simply because in the course of their analysis they are focusing on other different factors, and a flaw in assembly has not come up (yet). I do however not eliminating possibility, that while assembly despite being done as intended flawlessly, however combination of PU weight (CoG) when mounted could contribute to the problem of vibration.  That would be a problem of error in design. We aren't going to solve it by arguing it at the distance. Vibrations are bi***h, so much I admit. Better them than me. 

[lipstick79 0]

It turned out to be such a simple (and obvious) problem.
It is laughable, wild goose chase, needle in a hay stack thing.
But simple analysis.     

No problem on the dyno    (so we know the PU works)
PU in chassis   - problems occur 

What is the difference between the 2 entities, 
Assembly on the chassis    

It took Mclaren-Honda over 2 days/weeks to work that out, what were they doing ???
Throwing money at the problem,  not thinking about it logically                      

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sakae 0]

43 minutes ago, lipstick79 said:

It turned out to be such a simple (and obvious) problem.
It is laughable, wild goose chase, needle in a hay stack thing.
But simple analysis.     

No problem on the dyno    (so we know the PU works)
PU in chassis   - problems occur 

What is the difference between the 2 entities, 
Assembly on the chassis    

It took Mclaren-Honda over 2 days/weeks to work that out, what were they doing ???
Throwing money at the problem,  not thinking about it logically                      

If I read you correctly, then the problem has been identified and they are in process rectifying it. Interesting. BTW, have they validated countermeasures yet? That itself might be stupid question, because car has no track to run on, so we might be hearing about it in Melbourne. 

[maure 1]

14 hours ago, Sakae said:

I feel for you, maure. My morning, in contrast, is just beautiful and sunny. 

Me?

That made me smile.

[Emmcee 0]

3 hours ago, Sakae said:

If I read you correctly, then the problem has been identified and they are in process rectifying it. Interesting. BTW, have they validated countermeasures yet? That itself might be stupid question, because car has no track to run on, so we might be hearing about it in Melbourne. 

Simulators mate

[Sakae 0]

Express (paper):

Quote

The two organisations are contracted to work together until 2024 although there are understood to be a number of break clauses, one coming at the end of the 2017 season.

Quote

However, McLaren director Eric Boullier has question the Japanese manufacturer's suitability to the job at hand.

It is getting nastier by an hour, and question now is where is the break point when it becomes "beyond repair". Personally I think they all should shut up, and let people to do work. We do enough of damage on our own on various forums such as this one.

[Sakae 0]

Machine translated

Per article linked:

- current unit has 50 [HP] less than last year

- McLaren in 8 days of testing completed about 30% of their planned program

- McLaren is discussing premature ending of the relationship. Problem - it's not so easy to mount on another engine out of blue.

__________

This doesn't sounds good, especially when Lobato (allegedly) is a man with access to the source. If I recall from the past, despite his theatrics in public, Honda pays 50% of Alonso's income. (Reported by BBC).

(My) Conclusion: struggle all over.

 

 

[Caesar 0]

Hahaha, old news, old articles, recycled many times due to not having any news on Mclaren Honda situation.

[Sakae 0]

That could be.The linked article with interview is nonetheless dated 12 March (yesterday). Sound like confirmation of what were initially rumors.

[Caesar 0]

8 minutes ago, Sakae said:

That could be.The linked article with interview is nonetheless dated 12 March (yesterday). Sound like confirmation of what were initially rumors.

He says that engine used last week is the same that they are hoing to use in melbourne, but alonso said that last week engine is detuned spec2 and engine for melbourne will be different spec

[Sakae 0]

6 minutes ago, Caesar said:

He says that engine used last week is the same that they are hoing to use in melbourne, but alonso said that last week engine is detuned spec2 and engine for melbourne will be different spec

In two weeks we might hear something else again. Bear in mind, situation is volatile, and full of contradictions. Zak Brown was quoted as "There is no crisis", yet his racing manager just about in the same time declared Honda as unsuitable for F1 environment. There you go. Pick what you want of it. One wonders what happened to that "iconic relationship" so much touted when they dismissed Mercedes in favor of Honda.

[Caesar 0]

45 minutes ago, Sakae said:

In two weeks we might hear something else again. Bear in mind, situation is volatile, and full of contradictions. Zak Brown was quoted as "There is no crisis", yet his racing manager just about in the same time declared Honda as unsuitable for F1 environment. There you go. Pick what you want of it. One wonders what happened to that "iconic relationship" so much touted when they dismissed Mercedes in favor of Honda.

Well, we will see in ten days. 

[Emmcee 0]

1 hour ago, Caesar said:

He says that engine used last week is the same that they are hoing to use in melbourne, but alonso said that last week engine is detuned spec2 and engine for melbourne will be different spec

I heard alonso actually say he wasn't to worried with what was happening as the engine in Melbourne will be a totally different one.

[Caesar 0]

12 minutes ago, Emmcee said:

I heard alonso actually say he wasn't to worried with what was happening as the engine in Melbourne will be a totally different one.

Yes. Situation isn't good, because team lacked track time, but i don' t believe that situation is so catastrophic as some people write. Due to lack of info some write sensational headlines knowing that there is audience that will catch on it.

I hope i am wright. 

[Emmcee 0]

of course it isn't, it's not good but not like the media leads on. Love how media and other people jump straight to Honda with these mechanical issues aswell, I heard myself from a reputable source that Mclaren suffered a few drive line issues last season and if that's then the case, doesn't matter what engine you have if your having issues transferring it to the bitumen.

[Sakae 0]

I am hoping that by now it should be clear that I wish Honda success. Personally I do not know any of those guys, but as a visitor to Utsunomiya, I've developed warm memory on that place (and some others), and today I am embarrassed how European press is treating them. It is disgrace, regardless whether someone thinks they do deserve it. No one should be exposed to such treatment.