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Alonso Moving On

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If 2017 is a poor season for Woking then the press have it that Alonso will move on. OK. Where? I know Bottas is under the cosh, Wolff has made that clear and Renault will be keeping a weather eye on the McLaren situation too. He will not go back to Ferrari and RBR has a waiting list. From where I sit, Honda are goners. Twice in Button's time there they had a competitive Merc-engined car. Going into 2012, they probably had the fastest car on the track. They messed with car over the winter and in 2013 gave Hamilton a ticket to bigger and better things. Nando will stay with a Mec lump or retire - Honda have no idea what F1 is about in the 21st century at all. Time to save face and leave.

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From all what I read I am about ready to stop that madness and just wait on real thing without reading anything more related to McLaren and Alonso. If one seeks reliable news, its just utter waste of time right now. Very seldom I've found as many contradictions in the news on 12 hrs cycle.

- Honda will be gone from F1 in six months time

- EB is negotiating with Alonso, but that one is noncommittal with respect to 2018

- Brown - what crisis (we have)?

- Honda knows what's wrong and they will fix it by first race

- etc., etc.

I bet that not even McLaren insiders know today for sure what's in the cards next weekend. There is no other engine available to McLaren, that's the fact, and they will have to work through this, regardless of anyone's mood. I would not be so hurry to assume that Bottas will be kicked out of Merc in November.

Edited by Sakae

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Iam an alonso fan as some can tell lol, but if he can't get a seat worthy of his skills then go. Iam sick and tired of all this, he can get a drive anywhere, he shot of to early by saying he would rather struggle in a Mclaren than do it again in anferrari like wtf, what have you been smoking nando? IMO I think he's the best the sport has since Michael but I feel this finger pointing has to stop, get on with your job or bugger of I say. Id rather tell my grand kids that I left because no one had the machinery to cope with my skill and demand not poke around until a younger driver retires to take his seat.

Edited by Emmcee

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I'm starting to feel sorry for Alonso too, despite my reservations about his character. An immensely talented driver he deserves a good car. But he wasted his opportunities, burning bridges when he should'nt have, he's also made some bad judgements and decisions regarding his career and paying dearly for it

Edited by BradSpeedMan

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It's been widely reported (which doesn't necessarily mean true) that Alonso is going to join Porsche in the WEC in 2018.  The story goes that Button's non-retirement is due to the fact he slots back in at McLaren in 2018, seeing as Matsus##ta is terrible and destined to succeed Sato in Honda Japan's Family IndyCar ride when Sato finally retires from that series.

It's a huge shame.  I support Honda teams, and I think F1 is more exciting when Alonso's in the mix.  He's a brilliant driver to watch, whether you like him or not.  Talk about a guy who had two huge flaws, though: (1) his timing was awful—wrong places when the time would've been right; right places at the wrong time and (2) he couldn't build a team the way someone like Schumacher could.

McLaren and Honda both take a lot of blame, by the way.  Honda goofed it up, no doubt, but that had a lot to do with the fact McLaren's communication was so poor.  I have a very low opinion of Ron Dennis as a team manager, to be honest, but bias aside, he really c#cked up managing the relationship.  It was hopeless from the start because they were on two different pages and ultimately, that lies with Ron to have caught it and corrected it sooner.  He didn't.

Finally, I'm still shocked the paddock hates Whitmarsh so much he never resurfaced.  What did he do that was so wrong, honestly?  I laugh at how Whitmarsh was dragged for choosing Pérez of Hülkenberg, but I think time has shown he was correct—and time has shown Dennis firing Pérez for mediocre Magnussen was really daft.  Magnussen did far worse relative to Button than Pérez did, and he's gone on to accomplish basically nothing.

Oh, well.

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Renault guys commented that during early years (2010 onwards), as them, Mercedes, and Ferrari met regularly with FiA forming regulatory consensus, yet Honda never joined them. I think it was p**s poor planning to come late to the party restricted with those idiotic tokens, and RD is responsible for dragging them in by equal part just as Honda is, when they agreed to do it. They need to do a lot of things, but have no time. One wonders how long it takes before they run out of engines, and McLaren will be converted.

Flintstone-screencap.jpg

Edited by Sakae

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2 hours ago, BradSpeedMan said:

I'm starting to feel sorry for Alonso too, despite my reservations about his character. An immensely talented driver he deserves a good car. But he wasted his opportunities, burning bridges when he should'nt have, he's also made some bad judgements and decisions regarding his career and paying dearly for it

Yeah I feel the same, it's like he feels his decisions are best for him which clearly hasn't been the case.

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IMO, Alonso is still one of the highest ever paid F1 driver so he should just STFU and do his job. Good car or not, he should earn what he is paid for.:bangin:

Drive his heart out until his car breaks or DNF or whatever. Stop bad mouthing Honda or McLaren as it is the team the pays him. In Japan the moment you bad mouth your company or boss, you should have the decency to leave or harakiri.:aikido1yw:

STFU and work is what he needs to do. Stop complaining, it doesn't help the team ! Work for your salary Alonso and stop whining !:redcard:

Otherwise QUIT already ! Many other young drivers are willing to drive for nothing ! :furious:

 

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His results last season proove he was doing his end of the bargain mate, it's Honda and Mclaren. 

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His side of the bargain last season was PAID. It's his job. Closed story. 

So this year he should do the same if not much more efforts for the money he is making (which is way over)

and then STFU and concentrate on work, help the car development - full stop. The season hasn't even started yet and he is already pointing his finger. Whenever he crashed the car in the past Honda or Mclaren doesn't point their finger at his mistake so he should do the same now - be professional in all sense not whiner.  

I wouldn't be surprised if Vadoorne kick his butt this season.

Edited by radical-one

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Man his pace towards the later part of the season was insane, no one I repeat no one could've done a better job. Cant make a castle out of sh17 mate you simply can't do it. he also missed tests and Bahrain and still hammered button, what more could've he done? I agree he is talking to much but his only human and only so much he can take before frustration sets in. Going of paper and how much the margin was between him and kimi when they were teammates, would've been an epic season last year for Ferrari of that trend continued.

Edited by Emmcee

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Ferrari was built for Alonso with blatant disregard for Raikkonen's preferences. Last two years that trend was reversed, and car suits both drivers alike. That's how gap was closed. Only very strong personal bias and closed mind would ignore it.

Edited by Sakae

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12 minutes ago, Sakae said:

Ferrari was built for Alonso with blatant disregard for Raikonnen's preferences. Last two years that trend was reversed, and car suits both drivers alike. That's how gap was closed. Only very strong personal bias and closed mind would ignore it.

Could'nt have stated it better

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5 hours ago, Sakae said:

Ferrari was built for Alonso with blatant disregard for Raikkonen's preferences. Last two years that trend was reversed, and car suits both drivers alike. That's how gap was closed. Only very strong personal bias and closed mind would ignore it.

Yep and that's why kimi struggled in 2015, only biased Ferrari people would forget that. Bit rich commenting on biased remarks when your king of that. Ohh same in 2008 aswell hey? Lmfao. You guys pick and choose the facts that suit you. How do you know for a fact that the car was built 100% for alonso? Because the person I know who worked for Williams and Mclaren, sees it different, but hey, he wouldn't know as much as you hey Sakae? Tbh I was looking for a bite and I got it but since you went personal I couldn't help but reply to such a bs comment.

Edited by Emmcee

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11 minutes ago, Emmcee said:

Yep and that's why kimi struggled in 2015, only biased Ferrari people would forget that. Bit rich commenting on biased remarks when your king of that. Ohh same in 2008 aswell hey? Lmfao. You guys pick and choose the facts that suit you. How do you know for a fact that the car was built 100% for alonso? Because the person I know who worked for Williams and Mclaren, sees it different, but hey, he wouldn't know as much as you hey Sakae? Tbh I was looking for a bite and I got it but since you went personal I couldn't help but reply to such a bs comment.

Emmcee, you're always the one going personal bud

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5 hours ago, Sakae said:

Ferrari was built for Alonso with blatant disregard for Raikkonen's preferences. Last two years that trend was reversed, and car suits both drivers alike. That's how gap was closed. Only very strong personal bias and closed mind would ignore it.

Yep. Alonso spent  years in Ferrari without a trophy, that's probably why Ferrari went into slump, and now McLaren :lol::bag:

He even brings down his teammate with him, Massa, Button. :bangin: 

I am not an Alonso hater but his salary does not justify his performance either way I look at it. 

He can say all he wants about leaving McLaren if they don't perform but to where? Which team will agree to pay his ridiculous salary when winning will all depend on the car these days? 

Can't wait to see his stock plummeting after Vardoone exposes him as being overpaid, over hyped and over the hill driver. 

Edited by radical-one

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Whole McLaren outfit is ridiculous. "Iconic" relationship - my foot. It's mess. Meanwhile it must have come up to Honda's attention, that McLaren has been holding exploratory talks with another supplier. Hearing that, can anyone explain in rational terms why Honda would invest into this a single nickel more than they already did, and after having been affronted in this manner, seeing no future with the English team?

Some fans would suggest for McLaren to find a solution. Instead talking to media, tell your overpriced driver to cut it out! Go to Liberty and FiA, and confirm what they all must have suspected already - we do not have PU, and under force majeure clause request a year off, sabbatical - a breather if you will, and sort you your engine supply line. Time off is perhaps exactly what Honda might need. Act now, and do not start the season under current conditions.

Other strategy - expensive one - use race events for testing and development of what you have. Spanish test No. 3, 4 .... whatever.

Edited by Sakae

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I personally think his new for this year TEAM mate will show us just how good Alonso is, or is NOT....................

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Yeah and if alonso beats him the excuse is he's a rookie.

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why all the focus on Alonso, is it because he's a way better driver than the car or He is in McLaren?

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6 hours ago, rodders47 said:

I personally think his new for this year TEAM mate will show us just how good Alonso is, or is NOT....................

For a difference of few tenths of seconds either way, Alonso is way over paid. That's shown.

 

Formula One Drivers 2017 Salaries
DRIVER YEARLY SALARY CONTRACT
Sebastian Vettel (Ferrari) $50 million (£33.4m) guaranteed in first year, Basic $30m a year plus bonuses afterwards 3 Years Deal (2015-17)
Fernando Alonso (McLaren) Max $40 million a year including all bonuses 2 Year Deal (2015-17)
Lewis Hamilton (Mercedez) $31 million a year (£20.9m) basic salary plus performance bonuses upto $10m a year new 3 year deal
Kimi Raikonen (Ferrari) Took a big pay-cut with guaranteed $7 million plus performance bonuses of max $10 million Signed 1 year extension for 2017 season
Valtteri Bottas (Mercedes) Valtteri will earn around $8.5 million a year (£7m) including bonuses with switch to Mercedes 1 Year Deal (2017)
Daniel Ricciardo (Red Bull) $6.5 million a year (£5.2m) guaranteed salary plus bonuses Re-negotiated financial terms. New 2 year deal from 2017 to 2018
Felipe Massa (Williams) $3.5 million a year – came out of retirement and took a paycut to drive for Williams 1 year extension for 2017
Nico Hulkenberg (Renault F1) $3 million a year Joins Renault F1 with 1 year deal
Max Verstappen (Red Bull) $3 milion a year – Although Verstappen already had long-term contract with Red Bull, he re-negotiated financially Multi-year contract with Red Bull
Sergio Perez (Force India) $2.5 million a year (£2m) 2017 will be last year into his multi-year contract.
Romain Grosjean (HAAS F1) $1.5 million a year – Signed one year deal with HAAS F1 Signed new 1 year for 2017 season.
Kevin Magnussen (HAAS F1) $1 million a year – Signed one year deal with HAAS F1 after rejecting 1 year contract extension from Renault F1 Signed new 1 year for 2017 season.
Jolyon Palmer (Renault F1) $1 million a year Retained for another year (2017)
Daniil Kvyat (Toro Rosso) $750,000 a year – Retained by Toro Rosso after intense speculations of them letting Kvyat go in 2016. 2017 could be his last chance as f1 driver. Retained for 2017 season.
Carlos Sainz (Toro Rosso) $750,000 a year. Extended his contract for 2017 season 2017 will be his third consecutive season with the team.  
Esteban Ocon (Force India) $185,000 a year – Force India promoted him to partner Sergio Perez after Hulkenburg left the team. Signed new 1 year for 2017 season.
Stoffel Vandoorne (McLaren) $300,000 a year plus bonuses 1 year deal for 2017
Marcus Ericsson (Sauber) $285,000 a year Signed 1 year extension for 2017
Pascal Wehrlein (Sauber) $150,000 a year Joined Sauber for 2017 season.
Lance Stroll (Williams) Not known. Some reports suggest his father Lawrence Stroll is investing $35 million to the team for Lance to drive for them. 1 year deal for 2017.
Edited by radical-one

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Assuming McLaren will be on the grid in the first instance coming race 1, I am not convinced that continuing PU development will permit objective comparison between their drivers. Honda used in pre-season testing in average 1 engine per race distance, a situation which is hardly sustainable, and which for foreseeable future may end up with two units in the play and in their different (detuned) conditions. If memory serves me, they did not actually completed full race simulation due to reliability issues. Testing program was completed compromised, and per some quotes, about at 30% of what was planned, and it may therefore end up being success, if they initially finish races (a lap or two down). As season progresses, that may of course change. I do continue to however believe they should back off this year, stand down and let Honda to work on countermeasures towards PU convergence.

Visible failures on the track will do no good to neither F1 as a whole, FiA (for atrocious PU regulations), McLaren hauling all over long distances, and knowing what will happen, and ultimately it will be Honda suffering most in terms of negative publicity.

Edited by Sakae

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5 hours ago, jackgarrett said:

why all the focus on Alonso, is it because he's a way better driver than the car or He is in McLaren?

Some just don't know talent when they see it mate and only beleive articles and stories that suit them no matter how solid the proof is.

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9 hours ago, jackgarrett said:

why all the focus on Alonso, is it because he's a way better driver than the car or He is in McLaren?

Probably both.

This thread specifically seems in OP focused on a driver and his plight. Associated thread on this forum (2017 McLaren) covers jointly broader topics, such as drivers, a team, and a car. With current internal situation both drivers, not just Alonso, could achieve better results with a better car than they have so far. Vandoorne is relatively newcomer to F1, but from small sample of his outings we can safely say that he has potential to blend well with his peers. Not enough Belgians around here to start threads with focus on him.

Edited by Sakae

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8 hours ago, jackgarrett said:

why all the focus on Alonso, is it because he's a way better driver than the car or He is in McLaren?

Well, you tell us???

What's certain is that this is definately a case study of epic disaster failure. Whether it's the driver, the most paid on the grid, if you've been following most of us think he does'nt warrant to be paid that large sum of money as we think there are better drivers on the grid than Alfonso. Or is it the team, who has'nt been able to string, together with their engine partner, a competitive F1 car to compete with the top 3. It's worth discussing this on merit, from perspective of the driver and the team. There's alot of money being spent and alot of fans being left disappointed. It has become obvious tho, that despite that large sum of salary being paid to the nr1 driver, he does'nt seem to inspire that zeal and confidence to the team as a whole to actually produce something capable. As noted in the past, more comprehensively in the Mclaren 2017 thread, certain patterns however seem to develop. The teams Alfonso drives for normally spirals downward, there's always this curve downwards. Coincidence? I think not.

 

So what's your excuse?

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