F1 Slammed By Nascar Drivers

[Jenson_Rules 0]

You got that bang on devonclose. and welcome!

[Max Mosley 2]

Wecome devonclose. One of the best second posts I have seen. Don't worry about Bajo - not replying can be taken as a compliment.

[bajo39 0]

Wecome devonclose.  One of the best second posts I have seen.  Don't worry about Bajo - not replying can be taken as a compliment.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is not true in the least. When I am shown to be wrong, I fess up immediately.

[Max Mosley 2]

Yeah - I'm only joking Dan (may I call you that?)

[bajo39 0]

Bajo I would like to say that your analysis of the racing leagues is somewhat flawed. As was stated, F1, like IRL and Champ Car are single seated open cars, where the safety risk is tenfold that of Nascar. A Nascar as you know is modified street vehicle, which through even further modification is made safer by the addition of role cages and other safety implements. Much of the racing in Nascar is based around the idea that since the car can take damage and still run, the driver can feel free to as he likes with the vehicle, whether that may be bumping or slamming into other vehicles. I think one of the earlier posts was correct to identify the depriciation of skill level when one goes from F1 to Nascar. If you drive in a league where the slightest bump would either damage or incapacitate the car, why would you drive at all. Simply put, due to lack of driver skill Nascars are built to take damage. Due to the dependence on driver skill and the technical ability of the team, F1 cars are not built to take damage. For drivers in Champ and IRL to boldly claim that F1 drivers are wimps is a short sighted and somewhat ignorant claim, as all of them want to be F1 drivers. In fact if I were to do a rating of world racing leagues I would rate Nascar last in skill as, the truly brave men of the World Rally Championship, probably are only second to F! in overall skill.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

NASCAR is a bit more dangerous. The most recent death in NASCAR was only 4 years ago, in F1 it was 11 years ago - quite a difference... Anyway, my main point was not limited to NASCAR but American racing in general. IRL and Champ Cars are far far more dangerous than F1.

Anyway, if NASCAR drivers want to criticize F1 drivers for not competing on potentially dangerous tyres they are perfectly entitled to do so after the events of Pocono. I trust you know nothing of this.

[bajo39 0]

Yeah - I'm only joking Dan (may I call you that?)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, you must refer to me as Mr. Bajo39

Dan is fine.

[devonclose 0]

[quote name='bajo39' date='Jun 28 2005, 10:36 AM']No, you must refer to me as Mr. Bajo39   

Dan is fine.
[right][post="48665"][/post][/right][/quote]

Bajo please enlighten me. Exactly why are IRL and Champ car more dangerous?

[devonclose 0]

Bajo please enlighten me. Exactly why are IRL and Champ car more dangerous?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Also I would have to say that logically due to higher safety standards, one can conclude that one activity is more dangerous than the other. Is it safer to fly a rocket since you have so few life threatening crashes, or is it safer to fly a commercial airplane, with lower safety standards and higher death rates?

[ecapdeville 0]

Also I would have to say that logically due to higher safety standards, one can conclude that one activity is more dangerous than the other. Is it safer to fly a rocket since you have so few life threatening crashes, or is it safer to fly a commercial airplane, with lower safety standards and higher death rates?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Welcome to the forum devonclose!

I agree with you, it doesnt matter when the last death happened, surely the NACAR driver is protected by the car itself, with a lot of safety protection around him. I think by the way that motorcycle races are most dangerous than any racing sports series (and I dont know when was the last death here )

[devonclose 0]

Welcome to the forum devonclose!

I agree with you, it doesnt matter when the last death happened, surely the NACAR driver is protected by the car itself, with a lot of safety protection around him. I think by the way that motorcycle races are most dangerous than any racing sports series (and I dont know when was the last death here    )

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you for the welcome. I would have to agree with you about motorcycle racers, particularly superbikes.

[bajo39 0]

Welcome to the forum devonclose!

I agree with you, it doesnt matter when the last death happened, surely the NACAR driver is protected by the car itself, with a lot of safety protection around him. I think by the way that motorcycle races are most dangerous than any racing sports series (and I dont know when was the last death here    )

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The 'safety' of a series is judged on the rate of injuries (serious and minor) not on some subjective, uninformed, estimation of the crash-worthiness of the vehicle.

[Kay 0]

F1 is obviously very safe for the drivers now - infact more than for the spectators who watch it {from the circuit}.

If F1 was so unsafe another driver would have died by now, but the point is that so many precautions and tests have to be passed that already the chance is down to a small %.

For example Frank was amazed that last year Ralf came off as well as he did in his accident.

[devonclose 0]

The 'safety' of a series is judged on the rate of injuries (serious and minor) not on some subjective, uninformed, estimation of the crash-worthiness of the vehicle.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Bajo what you are saying is in fact correct. For the most part the only objective way to judge the safety of a series is through injury reports. However that does not mitigate the danger factor. What I am sure safety officials in all sports try to do, is to lessen the possibility of injury. However, that doesn't mean that because one activity has a better safety record, that somehow that sport really is safer to engage in. As I said when judging different forms of the same sport, one has to look at the mentality of the driver. A stock car can take damage, an F1, IRL or Champ car cannot. If a driver knows he can take damage to his care and vice versa, he will drive differently, take more risks. Since Nascar drivers can afford to take damage they can afford to take greater risk. An F1 driver is given a 10+ million dollar machine which he must race to the best of his abilities around demanding tracks. The vehicle has to be driven with a sense of worry, since the slightest bump could end the race. So logically, a driver of a vehicle like this will not try to place themselves or their machine in a situation that will place either in jeopardy. If you look at instances in Formula 1 or Cart, rarely can a driver be seen to place his vehicle in contact with another car, run them off the course and then continue to race. Instead F1 drivers will take extreme evasive maneuvers to avoid contact with another car.

In Nascar this is commonplace, one can run an opponent of the track without causing any damage to your vehicle. Instead of avoiding each other, they get in each others way. There is absolutely no fear of touching. This is also due to the share amount of laps. All of this adds up to a different driver mentality. Open wheel racing is widely known to be more dangerous than Stock car racing. Mario Andretti who has raced in all three series said as much. If you watched that CBS feature on F1 on sunday you would have heard him say as much.

Sorry to be so long winded.

[Senna 0]

bunch of unfit, left turning fools.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[bajo39 0]

Bajo what you are saying is in fact correct.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you

[devonclose 0]

Thank you 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You obviously miss the point of my statement.

[nojvnof1 0]

"think by the way that motorcycle races are most dangerous than any racing sports series (and I dont know when was the last death here )"

I think it was Daijiro Kato in the Motogp of Japan in 2003.

[AutoRacer5 0]

NASCAR is nowhere near as good as F1 for numerous reasons.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

More overtaking, more cars, and more action. Watch the finish of the Atlanta Race with Carl Edwards overtaking Jimmie Johnson on the last corner of the last lap.

[Jenson_Rules 0]

sounds great AR5, so fun infact i think , ill give it a miss. I find it incredibly boring and pointless, and is for all those americans who are thick, about 99% of the population!

[ecapdeville 0]

...Watch the finish of the Atlanta Race with Carl Edwards overtaking Jimmie Johnson on the last corner of the last lap....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

On an oval there aren

[Buttonfan 0]

Nascar i think is better because they have more cars like AR5, and that makes it more interesting and exciting, like the Daytona race this Sat nite will be very interesting

[YHR 0]

sounds great AR5, so fun infact i think , ill give it a miss. I find it incredibly boring and pointless, and is for all those americans who are thick, about 99% of the population!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why do you post such distasteful remarks J_R. Do you get some kick out of belittling people???

I find the Americans to be thoughtful idealistic people, who do really believe(to a fault sometimes) that everyone should be free to choose and direct there own course through life. I may not always agree with there political views, but the American people themselves, are caring , helping individuals.

Your remark is offensive, plain and simple.

[monza gorilla 1]

I find NASCAR tedious in the extreme, so I don't watch it. If other folks like it then that's fine by me. Just don't tell me it's shining example of how to go racing.

Incidentally, there are thick people the world over, with a good proportion of them living in the UK. I know, I've seen them.

[nojvnof1 0]

I just find oval racing boring in general, whether it be NASCAR, IRL or Champcar (when they race on ovals only). There is only 1 oval race that I'd watch over and over again, the Indy 500, but even that is a bit of a struggle to get through, unless I had the 1995 race, I'd never get sick of that, for obvious reasons.

[Senna 0]

I just find oval racing boring in general, whether it be NASCAR, IRL or Champcar (when they race on ovals only). There is only 1 oval race that I'd watch over and over again, the Indy 500, but even that is a bit of a struggle to get through, unless I had the 1995 race, I'd never get sick of that, for obvious reasons.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed.