Whose Fault

[Jenson_Rules 0]

Vote for who you think was the person who CAUSED the TM-JPM accident!

[bajo39 0]

Vote for who you think was the person who CAUSED the TM-JPM accident!

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Why do we need to vote on this?

[Jenson_Rules 0]

Why do we need to vote on this?

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Because lots were saying it was JPM's fault when clearly it was Monteiro's

[schumi13 0]

Because lots were saying it was JPM's fault when clearly it was Monteiro's

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Yes although I think the people that did say it was Montoya's fault must be either being bias as they support the Renault's or just love the Jordan team.

[bajo39 0]

Because lots were saying it was JPM's fault when clearly it was Monteiro's

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Who said that?

[Jenson_Rules 0]

a few in the other topics, dont ask, they are obviously blind, stupid, and mentally unstable!

[pumpdoc 2]

Yes although I think the people that did say it was Montoya's fault must be either being bias as they support the Renault's or just love the Jordan team.

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no, no, no JPM made a dumb move................................

[Jenson_Rules 0]

no, no, no JPM made a dumb move................................

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Pumpdoc for example dan!

[pumpdoc 2]

Pumpdoc for example dan!

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JPM with 2nd pl in hand over took a slower car then cut in front and short-braked=dumb move

[schumi13 0]

JPM with 2nd pl in hand over took a slower car then cut in front and short-braked=dumb move  

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I think you meant to say JPM took over the back marker and cut back to his racing line. Back markers should move of the racing line to let the front runner pass.

[Stub-o-matic 0]

I think you meant to say JPM took over the back marker and cut back to his racing line. Back markers should move of the racing line to let the front runner pass.

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Montoya should have waited until the front stretch to overtake Montiero. Montoya, with a badly flat-spotted tyre, tried to pass the Jordan in the heaviest braking area...and there was no pressure on Montoya at the time.

[funkejay 0]

I'd say there is enough fault to go around and I would split it evenly between them. TM should have moved off the racing line when he saw the blue flags and his mirrors full of JPM's Merc. But JPM was racing for second, and keeping FA behind him was critical to KR's title hopes, so he should not have taken such a risk by trying to overtake TM into the hairpin. He didn't have to work that hard at keeping FA in third, the Renault wasn't as fast and JPM had track position. There was no reason to take that chance at that spot on the track.

If he hadn't suffered the damage to the diffuser, he likely would not have gone off the next lap and let FA through, even with his flat spotted FR tire.

[CC 0]

I agree with funkejay again. Monterio has a history of causing accidents such as this so when this occurred I was not totally surprised to see the Midland involved being Monterio He should have moved away from the racing line in the manner as Sato should have done in qualifying. However Montoya was a comfortable nine-ten seconds ahead of Alonso with three laps remaining, there was no need for him to get so tight and remain on the racing line when passing Monterio, he could have easily retained his lead over Alonso and remained in second just by straying from the racing line and making sure he got into the corner a head of Monterio. However, the majority of blame lies with Monterio.

[funkejay 0]

I agree with funkejay again. Monterio has a history of causing accidents such as this so when this occurred I was not totally surprised to see the Midland involved being Monterio He should have moved away from the racing line in the manner as Sato should have done in qualifying. However Montoya was a comfortable nine-ten seconds ahead of Alonso with three laps remaining, there was no need for him to get so tight and remain on the racing line when passing Monterio, he could have easily retained his lead over Alonso and remained in second just by straying from the racing line and making sure he got into the corner a head of Monterio.

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Thanks CC - the other point to consider is that TM narrowly missed collecting one of the Minardi's at the end of the front straight only a few laps before, a result of braking far too late for the corner, and ended up going off the track. I'm prepared to give TM credit for a great finishing record (the best ever for a rookie in F1) but I wonder how he's managed it after watching todays race????????

[CC 0]

Thanks CC - the other point to consider is that TM narrowly missed collecting one of the Minardi's at the end of the front straight only a few laps before, a result of braking far too late for the corner, and ended up going off the track. I'm prepared to give TM credit for a great finishing record (the best ever for a rookie in F1) but I wonder how he's managed it after watching todays race????????

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Indeed. At times he looks just as bamboozled and befuddled as our dear friend Mr Sato and "Mr Money in the bank" Karthikeyan. He is certainly one of the worst drivers in Formula One at this present time. How much is he paying Midland?

[funkejay 0]

Indeed. At times he looks just as bamboozled and befuddled as our dear friend Mr Sato and "Mr Money in the bank" Karthikeyan. He is certainly one of the worst drivers in Formula One at this present time. How much is he paying Midland?

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I don't believe that has ever been disclosed (although I may be wrong about that), but it has to be significant.

I watched him race over here in NA in the Champ Car series, and he was a mid fielder at best, even in that series. And with JPM and JV aside, even most champions from CART have struggled to make an impression in F1, so that's saying quite a bit.

[pumpdoc 2]

Ok I've watched it again in slow-mo and first off because they don't show the marshals in close-enuff detail it can't be said that they were waving the blue flags--2nd JPM came over the rise so untill he was on TM's pipes he probably didn't see him--3rd JPM overtook in the braking zone and TM held his line as all racers are instructed to do--4th and last JPM "chopped" him, you could allready see brake/tyre smoke from TM's car as JPM cut back inside===result===JPM paid for his impatiance

[bajo39 0]

JPM with 2nd pl in hand over took a slower car then cut in front and short-braked=dumb move  

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Actually that is a good point Ben. I will have to review the footage to verify but it does not surprise me in the least as Montoya is not an intelligent driver.

[bajo39 0]

I don't believe that has ever been disclosed (although I may be wrong about that), but it has to be significant.

I watched him race over here in NA in the Champ Car series, and he was a mid fielder at best, even in that series. And with JPM and JV aside, even most champions from CART have struggled to make an impression in F1, so that's saying quite a bit.

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He was a back marker in CART as well with his best finish being a 15th place. He is without a doubt one of the least talented drivers we have seen in recent F1 history, tester or driver (barring Nissany of course), yet he is still outperforming Karthikeyan. Not surprising then that the Indian's sponsors have to fork over $30-$40M US to subsidize his ride.

[funkejay 0]

Ok I've watched it again in slow-mo and first off because they don't show the marshals in close-enuff detail it can't be said that they were waving the blue flags--2nd JPM came over the rise so untill he was on TM's pipes he probably didn't see him--3rd JPM overtook in the braking zone and TM held his line as all racers are instructed to do--4th and last JPM "chopped" him, you could allready see brake/tyre smoke from TM's car as JPM cut back inside===result===JPM paid for his impatiance

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I agree with you pumpdoc, that JPM made a huge mistake and paid the appropriate price for it - but that doesn't mean that TM was without blame. Situational awareness is one of the keys to a successful F1 driver, and TM should have realized who was overtaking him (at least once JPM was alongside) and braked early for the corner and allowed JPM back onto the racing line.

[schumi13 0]

Montoya should have waited until the front stretch to overtake Montiero.  Montoya, with a badly flat-spotted tyre, tried to pass the Jordan in the heaviest braking area...and there was no pressure on Montoya at the time.

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Yes I definately agree with that although TM did lift of the the throttle to let Montoya through but put his foot down again and braked to late which put them off the circuit. Montoya is entitled to the racing line and what should be agreed is that it is a back markers job to get out off the line and let them through safely; TM should have waited for the straight.

[Buttonfan 0]

gotta agree with that, Schumi13

[Null 0]

hmm, neither. TM was being overtaken and should have either moved off the racing line or slowed down. Montoya should have anticipated TM's lack of experience and should not have cut back to his racing line direclty in front of TM whilst breaking for a corner.

[bajo39 0]

hmm, neither.  TM was being overtaken and should have either moved off the racing line or slowed down.  Montoya should have anticipated TM's lack of experience and should not have cut back to his racing line direclty in front of TM whilst breaking for a corner.

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Montoya should not have cut back infront of anyone but you are correct in pointing out that doing this to someone of Montiero's ineptitude was incredly foolish.

[Fed up 0]

"Montoya overtook me and shut the door in a braking zone," said Monteiro. "I could not avoid pushing him as I was blind and lost all the downforce.

"I am really sorry for him as he was fighting for a podium but we have talked a lot during the briefings that we should not move positions in braking areas