Whose Fault

[schumi13 0]

You write a lot of sense in your post.

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Indeed.

[Max Mosley 2]

Montoya messes up again eh? He is hit from behind, causes accidents and makes mistakes too often for this to be a coincidence. The clumsy Columbian almost ruined Tiago's record attempt as the most successful rookie ever. It is clear that Monty was either too tired or had worn his brakes/tyres etc too much to use the usual braking point for the corner. In case any of you doubt my sincerity here let me remind you that TM has as many podiums in a Jordan as Monty has wins in a McLaren: now which of these two is more likely to make a mistake?

[Oli 1]

In case any of you doubt my sincerity here let me remind you that TM has as many podiums in a Jordan as Monty has wins in a McLaren: now which of these two is more likely to make a mistake?

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And what a hard fought podium it was..........

[Senna 0]

Im sure you have better reasons for following Button.....

'He is the greatest driver to ever grace this planet, and he is british, why shoul i not support him! Sato crashes hahahahaha [insert 50 pics of Sato crashes (many doubles)]'

Note: Thats a guess at Senna's reply.

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I might if I did particularly

[Senna 0]

Montoya messes up again eh?  He is hit from behind, causes accidents and makes mistakes too often for this to be a coincidence.  The clumsy Columbian almost ruined Tiago's record attempt as the most successful rookie ever.  It is clear that Monty was either too tired or had worn his brakes/tyres etc too much to use the usual braking point for the corner.  In case any of you doubt my sincerity here let me remind you that TM has as many podiums in a Jordan as Monty has wins in a McLaren: now which of these two is more likely to make a mistake?

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Good stuff old boy!

[funkejay 0]

TM was partly to blame, but JPM had enough of a lead to bide his time.

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Well, Fed up, at least we agree on that!!!!

[Monty 0]

I have read so many posts that blames JPM. What a joke.

All you guys who are blaming JPM please explain as to why a Jordan that is 3 laps down decided not to ease off but continue with the same speed. Was he fighting for a spot with JPM? Monteiro stayed in the racing line and braked as if he was on the same lap. It served no purpose for him to go into the corner hot and brake so late. Monteiro should have moved clear of the race line and slowed down. Yes he does have to slow down to allow the front runners through. JPM did exactly as he should have as the car in second place. He was the one racing!

I don't remember the race, but a couple of races back, JV was involved in a similar situation like this, 2 front runnners were about to pass him and they were fighting for positions, JV got off the racing line, and infact almost came to a grinding halt so that he won't be involved in deciding the outcome of the dront runners. As a matter of fact the ITV commentators praised him for being a sport. That is exactly what TM was supposed to do, SLOW DOWN and let the front runners pass you.

There was nobody else in the vicinity except for himself and JPM. If he slows and totally abandons the racing line, dirty air would be absolutely no factor whatsoever. Monteiro made it a factor by his actions. Remember the incident in Hockenhiem when Trulli was a given a drive through penalty for ignoring blue flags!!!!! that was an incident where he was fighting for a position with Nick, and he thought by easing off, he'll let Nick off the hook, His actions were justified to a certain extent but stewards thought otherwise. Who was TM fighting here..... No one.

What about the crash between MS and Nick, or GF and Webber, or JPM and MW (in Spain), these were incidents were drivers were fighting for positions. If you are back marker get your sorry slow moving a## out of the racing line. Period.

Murray Walker once again you have flaunted your stupidity by those remarks about JPM and TM having the same number of podiums. Do i have remind you that the driver that you support also has the same amount of podiums? You are better off remaining invisible like how you are normally when your driver gets the flak, and resurface when things are cool. Your are a joke.

[CC 0]

I have read so many posts that blames JPM. What a joke.

All you guys who are blaming JPM please explain as to why a Jordan that is 3 laps down decided not to ease off but continue with the same speed. Was he fighting for a spot with JPM? Monteiro stayed in the racing line and braked as if he was on the same lap. It served no purpose for him to go into the corner hot and brake so late. Monteiro should have moved clear of the race line and slowed down. Yes he does have to slow down to allow the front runners through. JPM did exactly as he should have as the car in second place. He was the one racing!

I don't remember the race, but a couple of races back, JV was involved in a similar situation like this, 2 front runnners were about to pass him and they were fighting for positions, JV got off the racing line, and infact almost came to a grinding halt so that he won't be involved in deciding the outcome of the dront runners. As a matter of fact the ITV commentators praised him for being a sport. That is exactly what TM was supposed to do, SLOW DOWN and let the front runners pass you.

There was nobody else in the vicinity except for himself and JPM. If he slows and totally abandons the racing line, dirty air would be absolutely no factor whatsoever. Monteiro made it a factor by his actions. Remember the incident in Hockenhiem when Trulli was a given a drive through penalty for ignoring  blue flags!!!!! that was an incident where he was fighting for a position with Nick, and he thought by easing off, he'll let Nick off the hook, His actions were justified to a certain extent but stewards thought otherwise. Who was TM fighting here..... No one.

What about the crash between MS and Nick, or GF and Webber, or JPM and MW (in Spain), these were incidents were drivers were fighting for positions. If you are back marker get your sorry slow moving a## out of the racing line. Period.

Murray Walker once again you have flaunted your stupidity by those remarks about JPM and TM having the same number of podiums. Do i have remind you that the driver that you support also has the same amount of podiums? You are better off remaining invisible like how you are normally when your driver gets the flak, and resurface when things are cool. Your are a joke.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A lot of Truths in there my friend. Both have faults in this situation, but there is no doubt that Monterio is at fault the most for this sorry saga.

[Monty 0]

A lot of Truths in there my friend. Both have faults in this situation, but there is no doubt that Monterio is at fault the most for this sorry saga.

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Well thank you CC. I wonder what the response of this forum would be for the same incident if we subsitute JPM for JB, KR, MS or FA.

I bet all hell would have broken loose, everyone would have asked for TM's head and I know bajo would have created threads such as "who is the worst Driver", TM vs Sato or should TM be in F1 etc....

[Null 0]

nah, I just think we've got a hate complex against narain karthikeyan, in reality, tm and nk are both as shockingly Sh#t as each other. Narain's large head annoys me

[Max Mosley 2]

And what a hard fought podium it was..........

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I can see you're being sarcastic here and yes, you are quite right: it was not a very difficult podium to achieve. Afterall he had the best car and his team-mate suffered reliability problems. Tiago on the other hand is the most successful rookie in the history of the sport.

[Max Mosley 2]

I have read so many posts that blames JPM. What a joke.

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Now thats a thought...or is it? You're so close Monty.

Murray Walker once again you have flaunted your stupidity by those remarks about JPM and TM having the same number of podiums. Do i have remind you that the driver that you support also has the same amount of podiums? You are better off remaining invisible like how you are normally when your driver gets the flak, and resurface when things are cool.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There can be little doubt of JB and JPM's respective abilities, especially after this year as we have discussed many times before Monty. I resent the implication that I have avoided answering some of your questions though - just recently I have said JB made the biggest mistake of the weekend last time out (although JPM naturally was in the running for that award again).

Your are a joke.

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Monty I thought we were friends? I'm only winding you up (this time). Of course it was the pay drivers fault. I just thought the poll was funny.

[Senna 0]

I can see you're being sarcastic here and yes, you are quite right: it was not a very difficult podium to achieve.  Afterall he had the best car and his team-mate suffered reliability problems.  Tiago on the other hand is the most successful rookie in the history of the sport.

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A fact I hope the entire forum is aware of.

[funkejay 0]

Tiago on the other hand is the most successful rookie in the history of the sport.

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You are kidding, right???

[Jenson_Rules 0]

You are kidding, right???    

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He is unfortuantly, hes not retired ONCE!

[Senna 0]

You are kidding, right???    

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No he is not; this is a fact I have stated many times of this forum

[funkejay 0]

He is unfortuantly, hes not retired ONCE!

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I'm not certain who is the best rookie ever, but I do know its not TM!!!!

By way of example, JV won pole position in his first ever F1 race for Williams at the Australian GP in 1996 (which hadn't been done since 1972 by Carlos Reutemann) and also finished second in that race. He won his first ever GP in only his fourth race, which also made his third podium in only his first four starts in F1. He then went on to challenge DH for the championship right down to the last race of the year in Japan, and finished his first season in F1 with 11 podium finishes in 16 races, including 4 victories, 3 pole positions, and 6 fastest laps (more than any other driver on the grid that year).

What I assume you meant was that TM is the most consistent rookie driver in history, having finished every race so far this season. And although I understand that is a record (for consecutive finishes), he is still not yet the most successful finisher in his rookie year, as Olivier Panis finished 15 out of 16 races in his rookie year (1994). TM may yet exceed that, but he hasn't done it yet........

[Jenson_Rules 0]

we never said the best, hes far from good let alone best!

[bajo39 0]

Montoya messes up again eh?  He is hit from behind, causes accidents and makes mistakes too often for this to be a coincidence.  The clumsy Columbian almost ruined Tiago's record attempt as the most successful rookie ever.  It is clear that Monty was either too tired or had worn his brakes/tyres etc too much to use the usual braking point for the corner.  In case any of you doubt my sincerity here let me remind you that TM has as many podiums in a Jordan as Monty has wins in a McLaren: now which of these two is more likely to make a mistake?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is quite astounding that Montoya, after having already been sanctioned heavily for numerous mistakes (some of them very serious), would be so careless as to nearly retire himself in the closing laps of what would have been a McLaren 1-2 in a very competitive CC. My opinion of him continues to plummet...

[Senna 0]

I'm not certain who is the best rookie ever, but I do know its not TM!!!!

By way of example, JV won pole position in his first ever F1 race for Williams at the Australian GP in 1996 (which hadn't been done since 1972 by Carlos Reutemann) and also finished second in that race. He won his first ever GP in only his fourth race, which also made his third podium in only his first four starts in F1. He then went on to challenge DH for the championship right down to the last race of the year in Japan, and finished his first season in F1 with 11 podium finishes in 16 races, including 4 victories, 3 pole positions, and 6 fastest laps (more than any other driver on the grid that year).

No one is seriously suggesting that Tiago Monterio is the best rookie ever; he does however have the best statistic for consecutive race finishes of a rookie driver. That is a fact.

Regarding 1996:

Damon got twice as many victories (winning 50% of the total races in 1996) and three times as many pole positions as his Canadian team-mate. Damon also finished the season 19 points ahead and had two perfect weekends (pole/win/fastest lap), Jacques had no perfect weekends. Furthermore Damon retired from 4 GPs, Jacques retired from 3. Damon led the World Championship of 1996 from start to finish (from Australia to Japan). Damon was utterly dominant and he would have won even more convincingly if it weren

[nojvnof1 0]

"I don't remember the race, but a couple of races back, JV was involved in a similar situation like this, 2 front runnners were about to pass him and they were fighting for positions, JV got off the racing line, and infact almost came to a grinding halt so that he won't be involved in deciding the outcome of the dront runners. As a matter of fact the ITV commentators praised him for being a sport"

it's because Jacques has been a lapped runner most races since 1999 and has so much experience in that area Well at least ITV praised him for something As for Monteiro being the most successful rookie, that is very misleading, you're better off saying he has the best finishing record of any driver in their rookie season.

[Null 0]

TM was also gifted a podium don't forget. He's just had a reliable car and has been going far too slow to have any severe crashes.

[Buttonfan 0]

At this rate, Tiago will be the only driver to finish every race in the year

[nightwolf2k5 0]

well... i'd like to differ from most ppl here. I dont really think that it was Monterio's fault, now before everyone kills me hear me out.

well i dont think montoya left a lot of space between him and Monterio.. to be honest, he left a few ft space and "started braking", concidering that monterio had not seen the blue flags or was not expecting montoya's wild move it would have been awfully tough for monterio to judge to beaking distance especially when he was stunned like that.

[pumpdoc 2]

Ok I've watched it again in slow-mo and first off because they don't show the marshals in close-enuff detail it can't be said that they were waving the blue flags--2nd JPM came over the rise so untill he was on TM's pipes he probably didn't see him--3rd JPM overtook in the braking zone and TM held his line as all racers are instructed to do--4th and last JPM "chopped" him, you could allready see brake/tyre smoke from TM's car as JPM cut back inside===result===JPM paid for his impatiance

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Bump