Kay 0 Report post Posted October 11, 2005 Then you must be very knowledgeable or arrogant. F1 Central know more about F1 than myself, so why would I feel the need to correct them? Why dont' you write a letter to their editor since you know all under the sun. Huh? I didn't say I knew all under the sun I said he has not competed in 100 races{big difference}, a slight overreaction from you, I meant correct their title by changing it in the thread. I'm not arrogant just that I have corrected people at least twice but they continue to say its 100 races. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Senna 0 Report post Posted October 14, 2005 Martin Brundle is an authority on matters of F1. You don Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
demonhorse 0 Report post Posted October 14, 2005 Zakspeed anyone? to help with you proving your point..... Whhhhhhhooooooooooooo? (OK I'll google it if I find myself wanting to know that badly ) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Senna 0 Report post Posted October 14, 2005 to help with you proving your point..... Whhhhhhhooooooooooooo? (OK I'll google it if I find myself wanting to know that badly ) I suggest you do read up about them! They had an atrocious record in F1. But although Zakspeed were particularly bad, look at the whole list of teams I provided which Martin drove for, also consider his early accident and its long-term consequences. In consideration of such things, his achievements are actually quite impressive. He was successful outside of F1 as well when he had the right machinery at his disposal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kopite Girl 0 Report post Posted October 14, 2005 Agreed, Senna. Good point! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Senna 0 Report post Posted October 14, 2005 Agreed, Senna. Good point! It was indeed, very good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kup 0 Report post Posted October 14, 2005 JB for me is maybe like Jean Alesi in his carries begin. His talent and potenza is higher than Fisico or Trulli for example. JB has no wins mostly coz BAR never won and in 2004 MS took so many wins as no one before. JB is not driver like Mansell (to win or crash), he is mostly like Piquet. NM has 31 wins in carrie and 1 WDC, but NP has 23 and 3 WDC =) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Senna 0 Report post Posted October 14, 2005 JB for me is maybe like Jean Alesi in his carries begin.His talent and potenza is higher than Fisico or Trulli for example. JB has no wins mostly coz BAR never won and in 2004 MS took so many wins as no one before. JB is not driver like Mansell (to win or crash), he is mostly like Piquet. NM has 31 wins in carrie and 1 WDC, but NP has 23 and 3 WDC =) I can see your line of thought there kup! However, I don Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KoolMonkey 0 Report post Posted October 14, 2005 Aye, JB is better than Jean but not PQ or Mansell. I'm sure JB in the end will win a race. But will it be a one off, or a few here and there? RS has won a few races and hardly anyone on here regards him as a good driver. Right now I see Webber and JB as equal in terms of their supposed "greatness". JB is a better driver than Webber but I dont' see either of them as a WDC. Only as drivers like RS and others who won a few races here and there and made a lot of money in the process lol. The way the media puts it, it's like we've never seen a driver of JB's talent before, when in fact over the ages, there have been dozens of talented drivers who never won races or WDCs. Greatness means nothing until you have achieved something truly great. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ykickamoocow 0 Report post Posted October 15, 2005 the renault may have been a far better car but Jenson just did a brilliant job getting 10 podiums out of it. So by your logic i could say that the Minardi is easily the best car on the grid but they have crap drivers so thats why they havent done as well as they should have. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MontoyaFan-HatesJenson 0 Report post Posted October 15, 2005 Jenson has never had the car to win. If he had, he would have won by now. "2004" I hear you cry - well how can you say its a race-winning car when no-one won a race in it. For all we know, the renault may have been a far better car but Jenson just did a brilliant job getting 10 podiums out of it. When, oh when, will the small group of low-lifes stop going on about JB. If you hate him then WHY KEEP TALKING ABOUT HIM ALL THE TIME If we bore you talking about him so much, why reply? However many starts, whether 100, 98, 99, it's still utterly pathetic for a supposed 'future WDC'. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jenson_Rules 0 Report post Posted October 15, 2005 Not really considering his machinery and his age (youngest to ever reach a century!) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
demonhorse 0 Report post Posted October 15, 2005 If we bore you talking about him so much, why reply?However many starts, whether 100, 98, 99, it's still utterly pathetic for a supposed 'future WDC'. You're not exactly putting yourself in a good position to tell someone else to stop talking about it are you, I have yet to see ONE post by you where you don't slag him off. At least I don't tell people to stop talking about how great they think KR is, despite my dislike for him. I just say my piece on why I don't like/rate him and maybe enter into debate with REASONS, not just statements like the 1s you make without qualifying them... I haven't (to my memory) stopped anyone else saying theirs. You however seem to want to stifle those that disagree.... there are forums where that kind of thing would get you banned for trolling... luckily this doesn't seem to be one of them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jenson_Rules 0 Report post Posted October 15, 2005 Indeed. I hate kimi too demonhorse and i 100% agree with your theories! I find it hard to believe that the mercades engines in KR's cars are worse than Montoya's and thus die easily!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Senna 0 Report post Posted October 15, 2005 Indeed. I hate kimi too demonhorse and i 100% agree with your theories! I find it hard to believe that the mercades engines in KR's cars are worse than Montoya's and thus die easily!! What about JV in 2003? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jenson_Rules 0 Report post Posted October 15, 2005 Look everyone has their own opinons and i just feel KR has had a part to play in his failures! You dont have to accept it, dosnt mean you can take away my right to have my own opinion! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Senna 0 Report post Posted October 15, 2005 Look everyone has their own opinons and i just feel KR has had a part to play in his failures! You dont have to accept it, dosnt mean you can take away my right to have my own opinion! If you believe Kimi is responsible for his engine failures in 2005 you must also believe that JV was responsible for his engine failures in 2003. That is if you want to be consistent in your argument Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jenson_Rules 0 Report post Posted October 15, 2005 i never said he wasnt a good driver, i rank him 2nd out of all current f1 drivers! Im just of the opinion that its odd he gets all the problems! I never paid much attention to JV in 03 hence i have no real opinion on his engine failures! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Senna 0 Report post Posted October 15, 2005 i never said he wasnt a good driver, i rank him 2nd out of all current f1 drivers! Im just of the opinion that its odd he gets all the problems! I never paid much attention to JV in 03 hence i have no real opinion on his engine failures! So then you think that the second best driver in F1 is responsible for his atrocious reliability? That it logically absurd. If Kimi is the second best driver in F1 he necessarily cannot be responsible for his atrocious reliability and if Kimi is responsible for his atrocious reliability then he necessarily cannot be the second best driver in F1. If you persist with this fallacy, you should publicly state that JV, and indeed any driver who has a noticeably worse reliability record than his team-mate, is responsible for his unreliability, as this is your tacit implication. Clearly the notion is ludicrous and there are many examples of team-mates having vastly different reliability records throughout F1. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shadow 0 Report post Posted October 15, 2005 JV's list of failure in 2003( does'nt include the race where he had problems and still finished) 28 Sep 2003 Indianapolis 12th Retired: Engine 14 Sep 2003 Monza 10th 6th 24 Aug 2003 Hungaroring 16th Retired: Hydraulics 03 Aug 2003 Hockenheim 13th 9th 20 Jul 2003 Silverstone 9th 10th 06 Jul 2003 Magny-Cours 12th 9th 29 Jun 2003 Nurburgring 17th Retired: Gearbox 15 Jun 2003 Montreal 14th Retired: Brakes Failed 01 Jun 2003 Monte Carlo 11th Retired: Engine 18 May 2003 A-1 Ring 12th 12th 04 May 2003 Barcelona 11th Retired: Electrics 20 Apr 2003 Imola 7th Retired: Oil fire 06 Apr 2003 Interlagos 13th 6th 23 Mar 2003Sepang 12th Retired: DNS:gearbox on dummy grid 09 Mar 2003Melbourne 6th 9th Please note that i am not going to say that kimi is responsible for his failures. they both had rotten luck Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Senna 0 Report post Posted October 15, 2005 JV's list of failure in 2003( does'nt include the race where he had problems and still finished)28 Sep 2003 Indianapolis 12th Retired: Engine 14 Sep 2003 Monza 10th 6th 24 Aug 2003 Hungaroring 16th Retired: Hydraulics 03 Aug 2003 Hockenheim 13th 9th 20 Jul 2003 Silverstone 9th 10th 06 Jul 2003 Magny-Cours 12th 9th 29 Jun 2003 Nurburgring 17th Retired: Gearbox 15 Jun 2003 Montreal 14th Retired: Brakes Failed 01 Jun 2003 Monte Carlo 11th Retired: Engine 18 May 2003 A-1 Ring 12th 12th 04 May 2003 Barcelona 11th Retired: Electrics 20 Apr 2003 Imola 7th Retired: Oil fire 06 Apr 2003 Interlagos 13th 6th 23 Mar 2003Sepang 12th Retired: DNS:gearbox on dummy grid 09 Mar 2003Melbourne 6th 9th Please note that i am not going to say that kimi is responsible for his failures. they both had rotten luck Exactly! If someone says that Kimi is responsible for his engine failures in 2005 then any driver who has a noticeably worse reliability record than their team-mate in any year must, through this flawed logic, be equally responsible for their own misfortune. Good drivers do not destroy their equipment, only drivers like Takuma Sato do that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kup 0 Report post Posted October 15, 2005 Today i compared (by my methods) JB JPM KR FA MSCurrent Rank (CR) shows current Driver position (based on last 5 years). Achievement Potenza (AP) shows rank by possible pts in 200 gp. AP is made with 2 digits (max`min) Year - Driver - CR - AP 2003 - JB - 6 - 11`11 2004 - JB - 24 - 22`22 2005 - JB - 24 - 25`25 2003 - JPM - 38 - 40`34 2004 - JPM - 40 - 43`37 2005 - JPM - 41 - 47`37 2003 - KR - 30 - 32`29 2004 - KR - 32 - 34`30 2005 - KR - 49 - 46`33 2003 - FA - 11 - 19`16 2004 - FA - 20 - 28`26 2005 - FA - 46 - 46`35 2003 - MS - 84 - 106`44 2004 - MS - 94 - 116`46 2005 - MS - 75 - 117`49 Finally = Nearest 5 years (till 2009) MS still will be #1 by Achievements. But by Current Rating there are 3 drivers with very small margins: JPM-KR-FA, and nearest 5 years can be their years. JB is 4th best Driver in next 5y, but his margin to Top-3 is big, so big question is can he reduce gaps and win 5-10 gp in nearest 2 years ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Senna 0 Report post Posted October 15, 2005 Age is an important factor to mention here: JPM = 30 KR = 25, 11 months JB = 25, 8 months Alonso = 24, 2 months Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kup 0 Report post Posted October 15, 2005 Age is an important factor to mention here:JPM = 30 KR = 25, 11 months JB = 25, 8 months Alonso = 24, 2 months Yes, it has influence to ranking: Every win (and point) by FA increase his rank more than others. Plus he made less GP than others (note JB) and "weight" of every win and point to his rank is also more than others. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Senna 0 Report post Posted October 15, 2005 JPM has roughly 5 years left. The rest have roughly 10. Now of course we can Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
