Ctrl300 0 Report post Posted September 5, 2006 The problem is he does'nt actually have skill compared to a driver like Kimi, Alonso is car reliant, contrary to what Autumnpa states (his views are biased, hence Kimi breaking engines theory) his car setup is mostly done by his team....He is not in the same league as Kimi, and thats FINAL!!!!!!! Don't go down that raod my friend, please don't. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradSpeedMan 6 Report post Posted September 5, 2006 Don't go down that raod my friend, please don't. "We've been down this road before, we know where it leads, we know where it ends...." The truth shall set us free.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Player(1) 0 Report post Posted September 5, 2006 "We've been down this road before, we know where it leads, we know where it ends...."The truth shall set us free.... Yeah you should try telling some sometime. Alonso/Kimi McLaren 2007! and let the games begin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Schumikonen 2 Report post Posted September 5, 2006 Jesus Christ, your posts are just the worst. I have never seen such biased drivel in my life. Just a lucky driver with no skill? Well, I guess some Schmuckonen from the hills of nowhere knows talent better than the entire paddock To question Fernando's talent is the same as questioning whether there is a difference between night and day, black or white, warm and cold. It is a total pointless excercise as we all (with the exclusion of you) know that he is one of the greatest talents of all time. I just can say nothing more than the same about all of you. He is one of the greatest talent of all time and a lot of you are here in this site questioning about Schu's talent, saying that he only win because his team mate, or because he got a better car or a better team and every crazy thing that can get in your head like he doesn't want kimi as team mate or whatever. If you and the others really think that way about Alonso, I want you to tell me what is Schumi? Because there's no way that you can compare Michael to Alonso after all that Michael has achieved in F1, there's a long long way to Alonso get there and you are already saying that he is one of the greatest of all time, Just because Ferrari had a bad year and a half. You can say whatever you want, the numbers are out there, all you have to do is pick the one you like. The problem is he does'nt actually have skill compared to a driver like Kimi, Alonso is car reliant, contrary to what Autumnpa states (his views are biased, hence Kimi breaking engines theory) his car setup is mostly done by his team....He is not in the same league as Kimi, and thats FINAL!!!!!!! Let him talk everybody knows that this is imposible in F1, engeneers said so. Yeah you should try telling some sometime.Alonso/Kimi McLaren 2007! and let the games begin And I will see you changing your avatar. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ctrl300 0 Report post Posted September 5, 2006 I just can say nothing more than the same about all of you.He is one of the greatest talent of all time and a lot of you are here in this site questioning about Schu's talent, saying that he only win because his team mate, or because he got a better car or a better team and every crazy thing that can get in your head like he doesn't want kimi as team mate or whatever. If you and the others really think that way about Alonso, I want you to tell me what is Schumi? Because there's no way that you can compare Michael to Alonso after all that Michael has achieved in F1, there's a long long way to Alonso get there and you are already saying that he is one of the greatest of all time, Just because Ferrari had a bad year and a half. You can say whatever you want, the numbers are out there, all you have to do is pick the one you like. Let him talk everybody knows that this is imposible in F1, engeneers said so. And I will see you changing your avatar. Arguing with you is an excersise in waisting time, so this will be the last time i bother. Talent and achievements are two very different things. Being the youngest race winner and WDC in history, and on track to become back to back WDC puts Alonso pretty much as one of the best talents of all time. No one has ever doubted that Schumacher is a fantastic talent, it is just that he has ethics even Satan would be envyous of. Also, claiming he is the greatest of all time just by looking at this statistics is hilarious as he has had very favourable conditions when winning his WDC's. He is by most (except his fans ofcource) lucky if he even makes the top 5 of all time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradSpeedMan 6 Report post Posted September 5, 2006 Of course I can blame Kimi! In the absence of conclusive proof either way, I'm free to interpret the events of Kimi's '05 season any way that makes sense to me. At key points in the season, he abused his car too much. I'm not popular for holding that opinion, but there it is. Perhaps the bullet-proof Ferrari can withstand Kimi's abuse; if I see even one DNF from him*, I'm going to have a long, hard laugh. I'll also have that same laugh when Fernando strangely doesn't have many DNF's** at McLaren. *considering Ferrari have an outstanding reliability percentage, even 1 DNF would prove my case for Kimi's abuse. **considering McLaren have had alot of reliability problems, I would consider my case for Alonso being gentle on his equipment to be proven if we see a reduction of DNF's from his McLaren. "While his own future is unclear, though - not to mention those of Ross Brawn and Michael Schumacher - paddock opinion is now near-universal that Kimi R Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Player(1) 0 Report post Posted September 5, 2006 And I will see you changing your avatar. I'm sure i'd love to but do you think there will be a perfect photo of Alonso holding the pit board proclaiming his 2007 WDC while Kimi and Schumacher are slumped in each others arms crying? oh and it all fits in an avatar's dimension's ofcourse. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wez 0 Report post Posted September 5, 2006 Arguing with you is an excersise in waisting time, so this will be the last time i bother.Talent and achievements are two very different things. Being the youngest race winner and WDC in history, and on track to become back to back WDC puts Alonso pretty much as one of the best talents of all time. No one has ever doubted that Schumacher is a fantastic talent, it is just that he has ethics even Satan would be envyous of. Also, claiming he is the greatest of all time just by looking at this statistics is hilarious as he has had very favourable conditions when winning his WDC's. He is by most (except his fans ofcource) lucky if he even makes the top 5 of all time. Yes, as usual all true!!! and Yes, Ive giving up arguing with certain individuals myself... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradSpeedMan 6 Report post Posted September 5, 2006 Yes, as usual all true!!!and Yes, Ive giving up arguing with certain individuals myself... Why?, because they usually right?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cavallino 2 Report post Posted September 5, 2006 one of the greatest talents of all time. Replying with hyperbole isn't going to mae your point any stronger. Talent and achievements are two very different things. Being the youngest race winner and WDC in history, and on track to become back to back WDC puts Alonso pretty much as one of the best talents of all time. What does age have to do with it? He wouldn't exactly be the first to win two championships in a raw. He is undoubtedly among the top 3 drivers on the grid, but let's not forget about Hockenheim and Indy so quickly.. He is by most (except his fans ofcource) lucky if he even makes the top 5 of all time. Actually he regularly makes the top 3 in every single comparison I've ever read, never seen Alonso on any such list by the way. PS: I'm trying to be civil here, I hope you will too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Player(1) 0 Report post Posted September 5, 2006 What does age have to do with it? He wouldn't exactly be the first to win two championships in a raw. He is undoubtedly among the top 3 drivers on the grid, but let's not forget about Hockenheim and Indy so quickly.. Do you remind yourself about 2005 before you go singing MS's praises? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cavallino 2 Report post Posted September 5, 2006 Explain that please. I don't know of a single driver on the grid who I think would have done better with the F2005. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wez 0 Report post Posted September 5, 2006 Why?, because they usually right?? Several reasons... Mainly because they are braindead Explain that please. I don't know of a single driver on the grid who I think would have done better with the F2005. Chuck Norris could have! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cavallino 2 Report post Posted September 5, 2006 Autumnpuma is the only Alonso fan here worth having a debate with, the rest take it as some sort of personal crusade to put down others Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ctrl300 0 Report post Posted September 5, 2006 "While his own future is unclear, though - not to mention those of Ross Brawn and Michael Schumacher - paddock opinion is now near-universal that Kimi R Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cavallino 2 Report post Posted September 5, 2006 Age is of importance in more ways than one. It first of all shows maturity since he is able to keep a cool head during races. He has been able to mature as a racer well before his years. Also, he rarely makes mistakes, and if he does (like with Dornboos at Hungary) it is out of frustration being hindered by lets say a third/Friday driver. Alonso not making mistakes is a big myth, he makes his fair share. You might laud him for being the youngest, but he hasn't broken any records in terms of getting his first championship in his 4th or 5th? season. Furthermore, he has thrashed a teammate whom is ten years his senior and whom was a race winner (albeit in a strange race being Brazil 03) before he joined the team.True, but Michael and Kimi have also been routinely thrashing their teammates.Talent is something that one develop over time. A raw talent must home his skill, and Alonso has been able to do this in record time (as did Schu BTW). Not really, he didn't have the ride that Schumi had immediately getting picked up by Benetton like that, but he hasn't exactly been 'the one to watch' all that long, and he had a rather uninspiring time alongside Trulli. When Alonso has proven his critics wrong over time (let say when he is 28) he would certainly be regarded as one of the best talents of all time.Then, we shall see. With regards to Schu he is also one of the best of all time, but his on track antics coupled with second fiddle playing teammates and surperior cars has made many question if he is, regardless of his statistics, one of the top four (the top three includes Prost, Senna, Fangio) or if he is more one of the top 7. 3 names there, and not an untainted one among them, maybe it's a necessary characteristic to make it to the top in this game.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradSpeedMan 6 Report post Posted September 5, 2006 Of cource Todt would praise a driver he has just signed. It would be rather silly if Ferrari would go out on a Kimi slander excercise and then pronounce him as their new fast-man a few weeks afterwards. He did'nt just praise Raikkonen this year mate.... Alonso not making mistakes is a big myth, he makes his fair share. He made 3 mistakes alone on his way to the canadian win, thats one race, we did'nt see it, that Renault car "hides" his mistakes... Explain that please. I don't know of a single driver on the grid who I think would have done better with the F2005. It was astonishing that he made it to 3rd position in the championship with that F2005.... unbelievable! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ctrl300 0 Report post Posted September 5, 2006 Alonso not making mistakes is a big myth, he makes his fair share. You might laud him for being the youngest, but he hasn't broken any records in terms of getting his first championship in his 4th or 5th? season. 5th season. In 2003 he was even with Trulli, this after a sabbatical as third driver. Remember he put that dog of a car to pole in Malaysia and thrashed the field in Hungary. 2004 Trulli started out the better, but Alonso pulled it back and Trulli eventually got the boot. He then thrashed JV. True, but Michael and Kimi have also been routinely thrashing their teammates.True, but I still don't know if I rate any of his teammates (with the exception of Rubens) as highly as Fisico.Not really, he didn't have the ride that Schumi had immediately getting picked up by Benetton like that, but he hasn't exactly been 'the one to watch' all that long, and he had a rather uninspiring time alongside Trulli. First year at Minardi...Second full season he won a race. After which he was hailed as a potential future WDC by most (although Kimi stole much of his thunder in 2003 with that narrow loss to Schumacher). 3 names there, and not an untainted one among them, maybe it's a necessary characteristic to make it to the top in this game..Aiaiaiai, don't be sneaky and try to lift your man's ethics up to their level Prost at least has a better record than most in F1. Two (seven in his total career) crashes with other drivers between 88 and 93, and both when he was rammed by Senna.He did'nt just praise Raikkonen this year mate.... Well, he has almost given Kimi more praise than he has given Schu... He made 3 mistakes alone on his way to the canadian win, thats one race, we did'nt see it, that Renault car "hides" his mistakes...Did you see the car he had underneath him? Did you see all of Kimi's mistakes? The track was covered with black marbles.It was astonishing that he made it to 3rd position in the championship with that F2005.... unbelievable! Yes, that is it, brilliant from Schu. Getting ten points for free had nothing with him getting 3rd...Without those he would have ended up 5th. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradSpeedMan 6 Report post Posted September 5, 2006 Did you see the car he had underneath him? Did you see all of Kimi's mistakes? The track was covered with black marbles. I'm trying to tell you that Alonso makes mistakes (as Cav pointed out), consistently.... by the way, Raikkonen also made 3 mistakes, while struggling with a clutch problem... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ctrl300 0 Report post Posted September 5, 2006 I'm trying to tell you that Alonso makes mistakes (as Cav pointed out), consistently....by the way, Raikkonen also made 3 mistakes, while struggling with a clutch problem... Compared to his peers (and I am looking hard at a blonde dude driving for my outfit) Alonso makes very few mistakes. When Kimi drives for Ferrari he can hopefully take some of his 'good luck' with him BTW Brad, I hope will not become one of those Tifosi's come 2007 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradSpeedMan 6 Report post Posted September 5, 2006 Yes, that is it, brilliant from Schu. Getting ten points for free had nothing with him getting 3rd...Without those he would have ended up 5th. I forgot about Indy... also, i did'nt like the way Schumie pulled over at the start to avoid getting overtaken by Barrichello. But the Bridgestones were undoubtly the better tyre Ctrl... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ctrl300 0 Report post Posted September 5, 2006 I forgot about Indy... also, i did'nt like the way Schumie pulled over at the start to avoid getting overtaken by Barrichello. But the Bridgestones were undoubtly the better tyre Ctrl... Yes, at Indy the Bridgestones was the better tyre as it was the only tyre The rest of the season the Bridgestones stank. Such a shame that is still not the case Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradSpeedMan 6 Report post Posted September 5, 2006 Yes, at Indy the Bridgestones was the better tyre as it was the only tyre The rest of the season the Bridgestones stank. Such a shame that is still not the case To compliment your point, only at Indy last year was the Bridgestones the better tyre, no matter if it was the only tyre, it did'nt blow up at the most dangerous corner.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Schumikonen 2 Report post Posted September 6, 2006 Arguing with you is an excersise in waisting time, so this will be the last time i bother.Talent and achievements are two very different things. Being the youngest race winner and WDC in history, and on track to become back to back WDC puts Alonso pretty much as one of the best talents of all time. No one has ever doubted that Schumacher is a fantastic talent, it is just that he has ethics even Satan would be envyous of. Also, claiming he is the greatest of all time just by looking at this statistics is hilarious as he has had very favourable conditions when winning his WDC's. He is by most (except his fans ofcource) lucky if he even makes the top 5 of all time. Can you show me talent without achivement? or need somebody to achive something to show a talent, like beating a good teammate or something like that, that is an achivement too, so it is imposible to talk about talent without achivement or you can say how much talent has somebody before he get in a car? Do you see the talent in his face? Well, I see it in the achivement, If Alonso was always the last one on track, could you say that he has any talent or you say it for something he has done (or archived) on track, talk to me about his talent without mencioning anything he has done on track and then you can tell me that talent is different from achivement, could you do it? Do you see how you are talking about an achivement inmediately after you said that: "Being the youngest race winner and WDC in history, and on track to become back to back WDC puts Alonso pretty much as one of the best talents of all time." you are talking about talent but you need an achivement to justified his talent, so can you reconsider what you wrote here? Or can you or anyther reconsider about braindead? 2 Corithians 13: 8All we can do is to follow the truth and not fight against it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Player(1) 0 Report post Posted September 6, 2006 Alonso got alot of attention from other team's when driving a Minardi, no major achievements there but the top talent spotter in F1 got him under contract after it and achievments followed shortly after. He was mostly at the back of the finishing order in 2001, getting the car to finish was more then his teammate could do most of the time though and even sometimes he was beating other's in faster car's *cough*Fifi*cough*. It's more how to drive in situation's rather then what you achieve that shows talent. 2002 and 2004 MS got achievements, even if here was any talent used you couldnt tell because of Ferrari's supperior car's. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
