Kimi's Potty Mouth

[Schumikonen 2]

I want proof then, you talk of prophecies and miracles yet all you do to prove it is to quote an unverifiable (and mostly proven false) document. Make a prophecy then, one that is so statistically improbable that people can accept it as a prophecy when it finally happens.

All prophecies comes from God, real prophecies I mean, so I can not give you one, but you can find out who is a prophet and then go and try to find out is he is a real prophet or not, I have taken skectical people to church to do this kind of test, one of those is my cousin and he is now pretty sure about that but if you only go to museums and those kind of place maybe you will only find scienticts not God nor his prophets.

[Schumikonen 2]

[quote name='cavallino' post='152524' date='Nov 4 2006, 08:06 PM']You have neither proven why your religion is better than any other, nor why it is for want of a better word, true.[/quote]

I don't have to probe anything, Jesus didn't probe anything all I have to do is talk to you about God and tell you how you can find him, if you were my neighborg I would give you all the proof that you need I would take you to talk to some demons that live inside the people you can talk to then when they are getting cast out of the people, they like to talk so they can show up and gain some time to stay longer in the people, this an usual thing in church if you want to know about this I recommend you this book [url="http://www.bestwebbuys.com/En_El_Nombre_De_Satanas/in_the_Name_of_Satan-ISBN_0881134457.html?isrc=b-search"]Bob Larson[/url] or this one [url="http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?z=y&isbn=0884196577&itm=1"]Paolo Botary[/url]

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Bob Larson or this one Paolo Botary

welcome back Schumikonen

[Schumikonen 2]

And what if you chose the wrong god? What if the god is a Flying Spaghetti Monster? How do I know who has chosen the right god, how do I know that someone who has chosen to believe that they should kill as many people as possible to go to heaven (or its equivalent in that religion), how do I know they are wrong and you are right?

You have the right to choose the god that you think is the real one, but if you don't choose well you will be in the same situation of a nonbeliever, If you decide to find God and you are doing a sincere efford to find it and you are in the wrong road, you can be sure that he will know it and that he will help you to find him, but if you are in a religion because that religion fit the way you want to live, you are doing your decision and you are choosing your own way and you will not be saved because you are not really trying to find God but tryiong to find the easiest way to live your life, God knows everything, he knows you and if you try to find him he will help to do it, you don't have to worry about that he won't deceive you.

welcome back Schumikonen

Thank you Brad.

I think I won't dissapear again, finally I got a computer now I need to get the internet in my house and i will have more time to be with you all.

[Schumikonen 2]

No. Possibly a pwoerful piece of literature, but then I think I've read better. What it does seem to be is a clear attempt to preach through fear, that if you don't believe us, you are damned. Intimidation at its finest, again far from the first time I have seen it, and hardly the most persuasive. If your sole reason to believe is to save yourself from that evil place, it is an empty belief, driven by fear more than anything else.

You can only be saved by faith in the name of Jesus, so no matter how much fear do feel for hell you can not be saved for that, but people have to know about this, there's not middle place you are with God or against him, so you go to hell or to heaven, no limbo for anybody.

[Wez 0]

You can only be saved by faith in the name of Jesus, so no matter how much fear do feel for hell you can not be saved for that, but people have to know about this, there's not middle place you are with God or against him, so you go to hell or to heaven, no limbo for anybody.

Yes, thats 100% correct, I really respect you for coming out so strongly with your beliefs!!!

But regarding the argument here, the saying goes, "you can take the horse to the water, but you cant force him to drink"... Something like that anyway.

[monza gorilla 1]

Many a mickle makes a muckle.

[Max Mosley 2]

....or merely a muddle, Monza.

[Max Mosley 2]

Welcome back Schumikonen!

I can tell you about a lot of fiction in science, scientists make a lot of theories and a lot of hypothesis to "reach the truth" based on how they think that things may be, then another scientist come with a different theory and they discard the older one because the new one is better, scientists don't agree how dinosaurs dissapear from the earth, teh most recent "theory" about that is a gamma ray burst wich came from a supernova and hit the earth change the air into poison and the sea too, this theory says that only animals below the earth surface and deep in the sea survived this. Do you call this science? I call it fiction.

I've not heard about that hypothesis but science is about debating on the basis of evidence. If there is no evidence for this idea it won't last long. If there is evidence then its not mere fiction and should be taken seriously. It is normally said that a huge meteor impact changed the atmosphere by throwing up enormous amounts of dust, which darkened the planet causing a large loss of plant life, meaning that the dinosaurs starved. There is much more support for this theory than the biblical theory.

What you describe is scientific research in action. What exactly is the problem if scientists don't agree on what killed the dinosaurs? It just means we don't know yet.

you have to believe in God by faith not by any demonstration, just think that Scienticts can not expalin the universe how can I expalin the one who did it, who is bigger than the universe, nobody cn demonstrate that God exist but nobody can demonstrate that he doesn't exist eather, you haven't done it yet.

But I thought He proved His existence by performing miracles?

[Schumikonen 2]

Welcome back Schumikonen!

Thank you Murray.

[Schumikonen 2]

I've not heard about that hypothesis but science is about debating on the basis of evidence. If there is no evidence for this idea it won't last long. If there is evidence then its not mere fiction and should be taken seriously. It is normally said that a huge meteor impact changed the atmosphere by throwing up enormous amounts of dust, which darkened the planet causing a large loss of plant life, meaning that the dinosaurs starved. There is much more support for this theory than the biblical theory.

What you describe is scientific research in action. What exactly is the problem if scientists don't agree on what killed the dinosaurs? It just means we don't know yet.

But scientists are still doing some kind of fiction with the things they ignore, that's why we get a lot of theory to expalin a single event, they consider everything as a evidence and they get a new theory based on that "evidence" then we get another scientist who find a different "evidence" for the same event and we get a new theory and until we get the real explanation of that event everything that scientists says about the event is just fiction, if they got real evidence of something then that event will become a fact intead of a theory meanwhile is just Fiction.

[Schumikonen 2]

But I thought He proved His existence by performing miracles?

Miracles come from the faith, first you have to believe then you get the miracle. Look at this in Acts 14

8In Lystra there was a man who had been born with crippled feet and had never been able to walk. 9The man was listening to Paul speak, when Paul saw that he had faith in Jesus and could be healed. So he looked straight at the man 10and shouted, "Stand up!" The man jumped up and started walking around.

Now look at this in Mathews 17:

Jesus Heals a Boy

(Mark 9.14-29; Luke 9.37-43a)

14Jesus and his disciples returned to the crowd. A man knelt in front of him 15and said, "Lord, have pity on my son! He has a bad case of epilepsy and often falls into a fire or into water. 16I brought him to your disciples, but none of them could heal him."

17Jesus said, "You people are too stubborn to have any faith! How much longer must I be with you? Why do I have to put up with you? Bring the boy here." 18Then Jesus spoke sternly to the demon. It went out of the boy, and right then he was healed.

19Later the disciples went to Jesus in private and asked him, "Why couldn't we force out the demon?"

20-21Jesus replied:

It is because you don't have enough faith! But I can promise you this. If you had faith no larger than a mustard seed, you could tell this mountain to move from here to there. And it would. Everything would be possible for you.

So you can see that miracles are mostly a result of the faith you have, anyway God doesn't need anybody's faith to do a miracles he can do it any time but he demand faith to be saved and faith to recieve a miracle, sometimes God does a miracle beacuse somebody that is watching need to see it, he does it to make that faith bigger or stronger, but never to proved his existence, I've seen this a lot of time and I can tell you that if you go to right place you will see it too

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Miracles come from the faith, first you have to believe then you get the miracle.

Miracles...

"There will be a time when sign seekers will become adulterous and wicked" The problem with miracles is that sign seekers will always follow, for the wrong reasons. As you rightly state about miracles, it's all based on faith. The three time Jesus was tested was in the desert, at the garden of Gesemene, and on the cross. He did'nt perform miracles to get out of trouble, but hit back with the Word. Miracles are used by God to get people's attention, which will in turn prove if you're faithful, or doubful in believing the Word.

[Schumikonen 2]

Miracles...

"There will be a time when sign seekers will become adulterous and wicked" The problem with miracles is that sign seekers will always follow, for the wrong reasons. As you rightly state about miracles, it's all based on faith. The three time Jesus was tested was in the desert, at the garden of Gesemene, and on the cross. He did'nt perform miracles to get out of trouble, but hit back with the Word. Miracles are used by God to get people's attention, which will in turn prove if you're faithful, or doubful in believing the Word.

You really know what are you talking about, Jesus was ask for signs or miracles many times as a proof of who he was, and he never did it, people is looking for the miracles of God intead of looking for the God of miracles, and is just a wrong step.

Here are some of those passages:

Mathews 12

A Sign from Heaven

(Mark 8.11,12; Luke 11.29-32)

38Some Pharisees and teachers of the Law of Moses said, "Teacher, we want you to show us a sign from heaven." 39But Jesus replied:

You want a sign because you are evil and won't believe! But the only sign you will get is the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40He was in the stomach of a big fish for three days and nights, just as the Son of Man will be deep in the earth for three days and nights. 41On the day of judgment the people of Nineveh [c] will stand there with you and condemn you. They turned to God when Jonah preached, and yet here is something far greater than Jonah. 42The Queen of the South [d] will also stand there with you and condemn you. She traveled a long way to hear Solomon's wisdom, and yet here is something much greater than Solomon.

Matthew 16

A Demand for a Sign from Heaven

(Mark 8.11-13; Luke 12.54-56)

1The Pharisees and Sadducees came to Jesus and tried to test him by asking for a sign from heaven. 2He told them:

If the sky is red in the evening, you say the weather will be good. 3But if the sky is red and gloomy in the morning, you say it is going to rain. You can tell what the weather will be like by looking at the sky. But you don't understand what is happening now. [a] 4You want a sign because you are evil and won't believe! But the only sign you will be given is what happened to Jonah. Then Jesus left.

Luke 23

Jesus Is Brought before Herod

6When Pilate heard this, he asked, "Is this man from Galilee?" 7After Pilate learned that Jesus came from the region ruled by Herod, [a] he sent him to Herod, who was in Jerusalem at that time. 8For a long time Herod had wanted to see Jesus and was very happy because he finally had this chance. He had heard many things about Jesus and hoped to see him work a miracle.

But all this thing about miracles is just the beginning of another porphecy of Jesus:

Mathews 24

The Horrible Thing

(Mark 13.14-23; Luke 21.20-24)

15Someday you will see that "Horrible Thing" in the holy place, just as the prophet Daniel said. Everyone who reads this must try to understand! 16If you are living in Judea at that time, run to the mountains. 17If you are on the roof [a] of your house, don't go inside to get anything. 18If you are out in the field, don't go back for your coat. 19It will be a terrible time for women who are expecting babies or nursing young children. 20And pray that you won't have to escape in winter or on a Sabbath. 21This will be the worst time of suffering since the beginning of the world, and nothing this terrible will ever happen again. 22If God doesn't make the time shorter, no one will be left alive. But because of God's chosen ones, he will make the time shorter. 23Someone may say, "Here is the Messiah!" or "There he is!" But don't believe it. 24False messiahs and false prophets will come and work great miracles and signs. They will even try to fool God's chosen ones. 25But I have warned you ahead of time. 26If you are told that the Messiah is out in the desert, don't go there! And if you are told that he is in some secret place, don't believe it! 27The coming of the Son of Man will be like lightning that can be seen from east to west. 28Where there is a corpse, there will always be buzzards.

And finally we all have to know that theses miracles are just for thoses who believe:

Mark 16

What Jesus' Followers Must Do

(Matthew 28.16-20; Luke 24.36-49; John 20.19-23; Acts 1.6-8)

14Afterwards, Jesus appeared to his eleven disciples as they were eating. He scolded them because they were too stubborn to believe the ones who had seen him after he had been raised to life. 15Then he told them:

Go and preach the good news to everyone in the world. 16Anyone who believes me and is baptized will be saved. But anyone who refuses to believe me will be condemned. 17Everyone who believes me will be able to do wonderful things. By using my name they will force out demons, and they will speak new languages. 18They will handle snakes and will drink poison and not be hurt. They will also heal sick people by placing their hands on them.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

(Mark 13.14-23; Luke 21.20-24)

15Someday you will see that "Horrible Thing" in the holy place, just as the prophet Daniel said. Everyone who reads this must try to understand! 16If you are living in Judea at that time, run to the mountains. 17If you are on the roof [a] of your house, don't go inside to get anything. 18If you are out in the field, don't go back for your coat. 19It will be a terrible time for women who are expecting babies or nursing young children. 20And pray that you won't have to escape in winter or on a Sabbath. 21This will be the worst time of suffering since the beginning of the world, and nothing this terrible will ever happen again. 22If God doesn't make the time shorter, no one will be left alive. But because of God's chosen ones, he will make the time shorter. 23Someone may say, "Here is the Messiah!" or "There he is!" But don't believe it. 24False messiahs and false prophets will come and work great miracles and signs. They will even try to fool God's chosen ones. 25But I have warned you ahead of time. 26If you are told that the Messiah is out in the desert, don't go there! And if you are told that he is in some secret place, don't believe it! 27The coming of the Son of Man will be like lightning that can be seen from east to west. 28Where there is a corpse, there will always be buzzards.

People keep asking "where has the time gone"... it has increasingly become shorter, for a very very specific reason, which I will not elaborate on. The meaning is very deep. Thanks for reminding me of that verse....

[cavallino 2]

All prophecies comes from God, real prophecies I mean, so I can not give you one, but you can find out who is a prophet

Well tell me who is, the ones who write in newspapaers every week definitely aren't.

I recommend you this book Bob Larson or this one Paolo Botary

Neither of those books seems to offer any irrefutable proof I'm afraid.

I think I won't dissapear again, finally I got a computer now I need to get the internet in my house and i will have more time to be with you all.

good and welcome back.

But scientists are still doing some kind of fiction with the things they ignore, that's why we get a lot of theory to expalin a single event, they consider everything as a evidence and they get a new theory based on that "evidence" then we get another scientist who find a different "evidence" for the same event and we get a new theory and until we get the real explanation of that event everything that scientists says about the event is just fiction, if they got real evidence of something then that event will become a fact intead of a theory meanwhile is just Fiction.

No such absolutes. Do not forget that a lot of what you call ficiton is what the very things you use everyday are based on. Doies that make them fact?

Miracles come from the faith, first you have to believe then you get the miracle.

That's a circular argument isn't it. How can I believe when I can't. Suppose I woke up tomorrow wanting to believe, wanting to know that there is a benevolent god who controls everything - I would still need the proof I am asking for to have that faith.

So you can see that miracles are mostly a result of the faith you have, anyway God doesn't need anybody's faith to do a miracles he can do it any time but he demand faith to be saved and faith to recieve a miracle, sometimes God does a miracle beacuse somebody that is watching need to see it, he does it to make that faith bigger or stronger, but never to proved his existence, I've seen this a lot of time and I can tell you that if you go to right place you will see it too

How can you demand faith, how can it be something that you can just plant into your brain? I trust some people because I have reason to trust them, I cannot have faith just because I want to (if I did waant to that is)

You really know what are you talking about, Jesus was ask for signs or miracles many times as a proof of who he was, and he never did it, people is looking for the miracles of God intead of looking for the God of miracles, and is just a wrong step.

All the passages you quote seem to ask people to cease and desist from asking for proof, and do that by trying to instill fear. So blind faith is the only answer. I'll pass..

[Schumikonen 2]

Neither of those books seems to offer any irrefutable proof I'm afraid.

But if you read them you will have an idea of how to get what you are asking for, Carlos Anacondia is a preacher, Paolo Botari was working with him and he wrote one of those books, there you can read about things that God did in the crusade that he was, and who knows maybe you can see him one of theses days and see the power of God working in front of your eyes and then science will come to a second place in your life. and like I told you I was an atheist just like you and I got that proof that you are looking for but I didn't find it in my house nor a museum, I went to a christian concert and I saw and felt the power of God, now I don't have any doubt about God, I don't ask you to suddenly change your mind all I ask you is to go to a place were you can see God working, because you are the one who need God, God doesn't need you, so you have to do the first step, just keep an open mind and look for God and you are going to find him.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

That's a circular argument isn't it. How can I believe when I can't. Suppose I woke up tomorrow wanting to believe, wanting to know that there is a benevolent god who controls everything - I would still need the proof I am asking for to have that faith.

You hit the nail right in the coffin there, if you're can't believe you can't. There is a reason for this, and the sad part is, you're not really to blame.

I hope not to offfend...

[cavallino 2]

I have my eyes and years open for any such sign, but I shall not go near any religion simply because I have no reason to believe one over another, any for that matter.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

But if you read them you will have an idea of how to get what you are asking for, Carlos Anacondia is a preacher, Paolo Botari was working with him and he wrote one of those books, there you can read about things that God did in the crusade that he was, and who knows maybe you can see him one of theses days and see the power of God working in front of your eyes and then science will come to a second place in your life. and like I told you I was an atheist just like you and I got that proof that you are looking for but I didn't find it in my house nor a museum, I went to a christian concert and I saw and felt the power of God, now I don't have any doubt about God, I don't ask you to suddenly change your mind all I ask you is to go to a place were you can see God working, because you are the one who need God, God doesn't need you, so you have to do the first step, just keep an open mind and look for God and you are going to find him.

You were never really a atheist Schumikonen, weird as it sounds, you were/is always a son of God, your manifestation maybe just came a little bit later than anyone else. If you believe life is predestined, then you will believe the word I'm saying....

[Schumikonen 2]

No such absolutes. Do not forget that a lot of what you call ficiton is what the very things you use everyday are based on. Doies that make them fact?

I don't call fiction what have been proved already, I call fiction to all those changing theories that I hear about everything unknown by the science like Black holes, quasars, pulsars, big ban, dinosaurs extintion ect. I really like science and I don't have any problem with God, science can offer me a proof of the nonexistence of God and I can give to you a proof of the existence of God, but I have seen his power, I saw a leg growing in front of me and there some videos of theses, I saw matter being created in that leg and you can not tell me that the power of the mind did this.

You were never really a atheist Schumikonen, weird as it sounds, you were/is always a son of God, your manifestation maybe just came a little bit later than anyone else. If you believe life is predestined, then you will believe the word I'm saying....

I believe it beacuse that is in the bible, and even in that time God save me from death twice, so no doubt about it.

That's a circular argument isn't it. How can I believe when I can't. Suppose I woke up tomorrow wanting to believe, wanting to know that there is a benevolent god who controls everything - I would still need the proof I am asking for to have that faith.

All I can tell you about this is that faith is like forgiveness, thoses are decisions not feeling, this means that you can decide to forgive even when you are not feeling that you want to do it, and faith is just the same you just say I don't have a reason to do it but you believe, you don't need a reason to forgive you just do it if you want to do it and that's it, I know that you have forgiven somebody in the past without any reason beacuse is a decision not a feeling.

[cavallino 2]

Actually I rarely forgive anyone. I'm a bit Mr. Darcy like in that way.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Actually I rarely forgive anyone. I'm a bit Mr. Darcy like in that way.

I don't believe you on this....

I think you don't know yourself..

[Schumikonen 2]

I have my eyes and years open for any such sign, but I shall not go near any religion simply because I have no reason to believe one over another, any for that matter.

God will give you that sign one of theses days, maybe he gave it to you already, I remember that when I was an nonbeliever I was talking to my friends about the nonexistence of God and I told them the bible has a lot of mistakes and if you get me one I will show them to all of you, a few minutes later there was a bible in my hands and everybody was around me to listen what I had to say about thoses mistakes, as soon as I openned the bible I had a lot of tears (without any reason) coming down my face, there was so much or so many tears in my eyes that I couldn't read the bible, everybody was saying there you have there power of God and I said that's not the power of God, maybe you were not using that bible for a long time and I got an allergy because of the dust (that was a lie) but as a nonbeliever I had to say something against them in that moment and I took whatever reason to sustain that those tears were not the power of God, I never had that effect before adn never had it after, just that day, is there any explanation for this? yes and is in God's power not in science.

Actually I rarely forgive anyone. I'm a bit Mr. Darcy like in that way.

I didn't say that you do it, I said that you had done it in the past, maybe just one time, we get mad even with our parent and family but we forgive without any reason, you may say that yu forgive them because they are parents but you really do it because you decide to do it.

[cavallino 2]

I don't believe you on this....

I think you don't know yourself..

I doin't mean about trifling matters obviously