Schumi: 'I Couldn't Work With Dennis'

[tifosi too! 0]

This thread had a single page last night and i was suprised to see it up to 3 pages today!Anyway its good for all to realise that we are here to talk/discuss and not to make pointless assaults at each other!If we don't agree on something then we should try to explain why and leave personal remarks aside!If we can't do that, it's not the other person's fault.This forum has it's fair share of rivalries and personally I think its stupid!At first, I would also be offended by some remarks but now I know better!Our posts indicate the quality of our thoughts and some are not worth dealing with.It's a fact and we should all realise it!If someone wants to make a point, that's why this forum is for.If he is here to attack people and cause trouble, first of all his intention is easy to spot and second it's just not worth it.Of course i personally haven't been able not to respond to an insult so far, but i definetely don't take IT or the poster seriously.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

Ron probably offered a lot less money and Schumi likes a nice big family as opposed to Ron who likes a strict professional brand/company/business

[Loser Boy 0]

It's a good thing Ron is a difficult man to work with. Else we wouldn't have got to see the successful Schumi-Ferrari marriage.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

It's a good thing Ron is a difficult man to work with. Else we wouldn't have got to see the successful Schumi-Ferrari marriage.

On the other hand it may have been better if Schu went to mclaren cos it would've probably saved us from the 'boring' 2002 and 2004 domination seasons

[cavallino 2]

Has this ever been proved, other than perhaps Irvine saying it? I've had a mufties about and I can't find anything about it.

Irvine is on record saying it, I *think* it was in his book too. Equally, Massa and Barrichello are on record explicitly saying they had no such clause in their contracts.

Jem, also, Michael is on record saying that the second contract extension he signed with Ferrari, around 2000 or so was not financially the highest offer. The higher bidder can be no other than Dennis.

[cavallino 2]

yes, the idea that drivers should be able to race each other!

At Mclaren? Are you kidding? They sometimes fix races so that they don't have to race othert teams

i never understood the fit when m$ moved to ferrari. he didn't seem to me at all a typical ferrari driver in the gilles villeneuve-mould

GV was hardly the typical Ferrari driver, and Ferrari drivers were never chosen for being in that 'mould'. Where would Prost fit in for example?

does anybody think he could have been as successful at a mercedes-engined mclaren team?

No.

What Michael probably refers to is Ron would never have accepted having the whole top hierarchy of Mclaren shaken to pieces with Brawn, Byrne and Todt coming in. He would never ever let a driver have that much say in running the team.

The fact a man will not race in a team because they refuse to give him number 1 status is pretty sad whether you like MS or not.

The fact that you repeatedly state your own opinion/ presumption/ hypothesis/ dreams as facts repeatedly is pretty sad.

He only went to ferrari because they always made others defer to him.

And having the best team in the paddock for a long time was just an incidental bonus, a team with an indefinite long term commitment to sport and solid financial backing?

Agreed. Ron said in the past that he's seriously talked to Michael about working together many times and that MS never mentioned a preferential status in the team.

Thank you, I have mentioned that in the past, I would jsut get called a liar.

It is very obvious that there was. There where several occasions where rubens was faster and had to move

Several? Name them please, subtract Indy 2002 and a couple of other races from that, take the remainder and show us how it is a significant percentage of Michael's successful races.

, and the same thing happened to massa as well.

Oddly enough, that happened after Renault had stgarted using team orders blatantly and repeatedly, and over this season did it far more than Ferrari. And it happened once.

Like it or lump it, Schumacher was an arrogant glory hog that would not drive for a team in which his team mate would be a threat to him.

Like it or not, that is just your opinion, and a pretty baseless one because of your continuous refusal to give any facts to make yours point, you stickl to pure rhetoric.

(and trust me its nothing to do with motivation).

Why? Support it, give something to back it up. Why on earth would we trust you? Do you have this from any remotely reliable source?

Yeah and he is also a cheat and an arrogant swine, but as you said, each to their own eh?

Alonso is a cheat and arrogant swine. but as....

Everyone knows Ferrari used team orders, it is a fact not fiction.

Everyone knows Mclaren team orders, it is a fact not fiction.

Everyone knows Williams used team orders, it is a fact not fiction.

Everyone knows Super Aguri used team orders, it is a fact not fiction.

Everyone knows Toyota used team orders, it is a fact not fiction.

Everyone knows Renault used team orders, it is a fact not fiction.

Need I go on?

If some retards do not want to believe it because they believe german boy is some kinda knight in shining armour, then theyre welcome to that.

Wow what a wonderful way to make a point, are you a debating champion or somerthing?

If they never used team orders come up with explanations of Austria 2002 and the race in 98 (cant remember which without re-watching the season) where they deliberately made irvine drive slow to allow him to get away.

The straw man again - misrepresent someone's view and then contradict it. Who in this thread has said Ferrari did not use team orders?

I don't really have an informative post to make

Aha! Finally you speak some sense. You have no information to give, merely rhetoric. Ever tried politics?

[Quiet One 15]

At Mclaren? Are you kidding? They sometimes fix races so that they don't have to race othert teams

GV was hardly the typical Ferrari driver, and Ferrari drivers were never chosen for being in that 'mould'. Where would Prost fit in for example?

No.

What Michael probably refers to is Ron would never have accepted having the whole top hierarchy of Mclaren shaken to pieces with Brawn, Byrne and Todt coming in. He would never ever let a driver have that much say in running the team.

The fact that you repeatedly state your own opinion/ presumption/ hypothesis/ dreams as facts repeatedly is pretty sad.

And having the best team in the paddock for a long time was just an incidental bonus, a team with an indefinite long term commitment to sport and solid financial backing?

Thank you, I have mentioned that in the past, I would jsut get called a liar.

Several? Name them please, subtract Indy 2002 and a couple of other races from that, take the remainder and show us how it is a significant percentage of Michael's successful races.

Oddly enough, that happened after Renault had stgarted using team orders blatantly and repeatedly, and over this season did it far more than Ferrari. And it happened once.

Like it or not, that is just your opinion, and a pretty baseless one because of your continuous refusal to give any facts to make yours point, you stickl to pure rhetoric.

Why? Support it, give something to back it up. Why on earth would we trust you? Do you have this from any remotely reliable source?

Alonso is a cheat and arrogant swine. but as....

Everyone knows Mclaren team orders, it is a fact not fiction.

Everyone knows Williams used team orders, it is a fact not fiction.

Everyone knows Super Aguri used team orders, it is a fact not fiction.

Everyone knows Toyota used team orders, it is a fact not fiction.

Everyone knows Renault used team orders, it is a fact not fiction.

Need I go on?

Wow what a wonderful way to make a point, are you a debating champion or somerthing?

The straw man again - misrepresent someone's view and then contradict it. Who in this thread has said Ferrari did not use team orders?

Aha! Finally you speak some sense. You have no information to give, merely rhetoric. Ever tried politics?

Cav, it took us a lot of posts yesterday to bring back some sense and keep the thread civilized. (IN CASE you want to say anything: no, nobody appointed me as moderator to do that...it's just the right thing to do in a forum) Frankly, I dont give a s**t about your personal problem with Shane, but he had the courage to admit he went over the line with Paul and backed up. You should really do the same. Please re read your previous post and you will find that it is 100% pure rethoric also. Calm down! One of you has to let it go and bring back the discussion to a decent level. You are the older one (I think, at least, because I have no idea of your age, but I assume you are older than Shane) Can't you let it go? You will see that he will stop too and we can all go on bashing each other in a civilized way

[cavallino 2]

As I said earlier, Murray, I agree with you and I still agree with you. That's exactly how I see it, too

The first thought that came to my mind was if MS had it written into his team mate's contract that they had to move over

Exactly, what happened in 99? Maybe Michael was contractually obliged to move over for Irvine? Why would he do it otherwise, since according to Shane that is the only situation in which a driver moves over.

, well if MS was having a real poor year and his team mate was having a good one, then came a race where MS was close to his team mate, then he could invoke the contract even to the detriment of the team - that's why it doesn't make business sense to me.

Michael being the entirely selfish hypocritical git that Shane says he is would have done exactly that in '99, asking for Irvine to move over for him in the last two races. Oddly enough he didn't

He was an ill-mannered SOB anyways...but a hell of a driver...pity.

Well he quite that wonderful a driver quite frankly. Every dog has his day of course.

An Alain Prost-Ayrton Senna like pair would have been impossible in the MS era. Pity, again.

Well everyone comes back to that, but remember Prost left the team in acrimony and alleged that Senna was being favoured. So much for driver equality then.

Actually if you think about this logically you will realise team orders can very well tie in with a driver's contract, and there is no way eddie driving at 3s per lap slower than the car was capable of was a mistake.

So Fisichella also had such a contract by your assessment?

Did the better driver through the course of the 2002 Austrian weekend win?

So just one of 90 races then, a favour that he returned? We are still waiting for the reams of data you promised.

What about all the times massa has had a pit stop and came out behind MS?

You might have had a point if Massa was the only driver MS did that to. He did it to Alonso he did it to Kimi he did it to Mika to DC etc.

The point of the matter is that there where several times where MS was not the better driver, and he still got gifted the win.

Several? List them please. Oh wait did I ask that already? More than once?

Oh and FYI i dislike cavallino because of the BS he posts about all of the other drivers

So you dislike me for having an opinion?

Edit: You call me a retard

He did? Shane if you aspire to be a mod here, that is hardly the way..

Shall i bash my head against a wall or just crack it open, for feck sake

Yes please.

and that is pretty obvious to anyone with a brain bigger than a walnut

ad hominem. As I said earlier you are utterly incapable of taking part in a fair debate, you can never stick to the rules.

Well explain it then you smart arsed twat because i do not see you with a better answer for it

Oh boy, they must love you on your site, I thought you said everyone is nice to everyone. Where do you come in then?

I have nothing against murray. I am fed up of Pabloh trying to wind me up every time i have a view that differs from his.

Do you think little green men come to take you in your sleep?

(and i still am waiting for an alternate explanation for the fact that eddie was 3S a lap slower than he should be when schumacher was first and he was second).

Alternate explanation? First of all, I dson't remember the race but it was not for the win, 4th position iirc. And noone denied it was team orders.

So yet again, what is your point?

You are the older one (I think, at least, because I have no idea of your age, but I assume you are older than Shane) Can't you let it go? You will see that he will stop too and we can all go on bashing each other in a civilized way

No, it will take a long time to explain. If you are really interrested, after joining the forum he launched personal attacks on me purely because I disagreed with him. If you want to waste the time, you can search for his earlier posts. Some people are just crazy, I didn't start it, and I am not going to be the one to back down. People don't change, I am not going to waste my time making a coherent argument to him I tried taht in the past and he responds with abuse.

And now he has said he wants to be a moderator here. I shall try my best to make sure that he doesn't manage it, because if that happens I will not be aqble to post here. That is why I have stopped ignoring his posts.

[chennaiguy 0]

planetf1

Schumi: 'I couldn't work with Dennis'

"Everything with Mercedes ran very well and we could have found a way but Ron had another view of how an F1 team should function."

_____________________________________________________________

Schumi has said Ron had another view but he has not disclosed what that view was-hence discussing whether schumi wants a single driver bias may not be apt-

[Taku 0]

What do you do in Tokyo? Yeah MS' last races were quite sad in a way I think, especially suzuka.

i work in the finance industry, for an american bank.

pabloh20 and shane2, good to see you have made up

[Max Mosley 2]

I see. Earning a fortune then I imagine. What was your background before may i ask? I'm still at uni but starting to think about what to do next and banking sounds well paid at least!

[Taku 0]

I see. Earning a fortune then I imagine. What was your background before may i ask? I'm still at uni but starting to think about what to do next and banking sounds well paid at least!

well definitely not earning a fortune (hope to one day), in what has to be the most ridiculously expensive city in the world! i studied at sydney university, completing a double degree in commerce & arts majoring in finance and international relations. i worked at an accounting firm for a while, then a software firm, then decided to move to tokyo for something a little more exciting and challenging than sydney.

what are you studying at the moment? i was tossing up between london, new york and tokyo. there are many opportunities in the banking industry in london.

[Max Mosley 2]

I'm doing a phd in physics atm. I still have a couple of years to decide what to do luckily! Yeah I hear Tokyo's expensive. I think London isn't cheap either.

[Taku 0]

yes i found london expensive, but then again i was coming from australia and my aussie pesos didn't convert to much solid sterling.

you're doing your phd in physics? good for you, very impressive! you'll be able to choose any field you want to enter i imagine

[Autumnpuma 0]

I'm doing a phd in physics atm. I still have a couple of years to decide what to do luckily! Yeah I hear Tokyo's expensive. I think London isn't cheap either.

Perhaps you can do a study on how DC fits his square head into a spherical helmet

[Autumnpuma 0]

Schumi has said Ron had another view but he has not disclosed what that view was-hence discussing whether schumi wants a single driver bias may not be apt-

Of course it's apt. We aren't reporters here, concerned with uttering only the text of a quote and going no further. We are here to let fly our ideas and opinions based on those quotes. With that in mind, I think Michael was telling the exact truth when he said that Ferrari never started the season favoring him over his teammate. When a clear, faster driver emerged, the team threw it's whole resources behind that driver (according to Michael)...and I assume that support also applied to the driver in the other car. If there was any clause in Michael's teammates' contracts, I would guess it was to stipulate this support.

Ron Dennis likely didn't agree with this modus operandi so Michael chose the option that would better aid his Championship hopes. I can't say I would do any different........

(I don't like him much, in the same way I don't like Senna much, but both of their driving skills are worthy of respect)

[cavallino 2]

I'm doing a phd in physics atm. I still have a couple of years to decide what to do luckily! Yeah I hear Tokyo's expensive. I think London isn't cheap either.

If you're doing a phd in Physics, you obviously didn't start doing it looking for money, stick at it. Physics is wonderful, I just wish I was any good at it

[Max Mosley 2]

yes i found london expensive, but then again i was coming from australia and my aussie pesos didn't convert to much solid sterling.

you're doing your phd in physics? good for you, very impressive! you'll be able to choose any field you want to enter i imagine

Well I guess once you get a good job in the City you'd find most things in London pretty cheap. Yeah, I hope I'll have a few options too. Maybe academia or maybe I'll try to earn enough to live instead.

Perhaps you can do a study on how DC fits his square head into a spherical helmet

Yeah I think Newey must be working hard on the aerodynamics of a square head. I notice even Einstein hasn't solved that one.

If you're doing a phd in Physics, you obviously didn't start doing it looking for money, stick at it. Physics is wonderful, I just wish I was any good at it

Well, in fact I started it because it seemed less work than getting a real job. Nevertheless you are right that the way the world really works is weirder and better than anyone would have imagined. If you went up to the guy in the street and tried to explain even a "relatively simple" theory like special relativity they wouldn't believe you (I was thinking the other day that probably most people's toes are younger than their noses, by the twin paradox). God knows what they would make of quantum field theory or general relativity.

Anyway you seem a smart fellow to me. I'm sure you'll do very well in physics. Maybe I'll meet you at a conference one day soon...

[Taku 0]

indeed. i won't pretend i know a great deal about physics as i'm much more comfortable with pricing models & risk analysis, but i was reading a little about the basic theory behind quantum computing, and i certainly do realise that the world is definitely not at all what it seems when you take a good, deep down look into the way things are and work.

the world needs people like you. the world probably needs less people like me who only make their clients and company more wealthy

[goferrarigo 0]

indeed. i won't pretend i know a great deal about physics as i'm much more comfortable with pricing models & risk analysis, but i was reading a little about the basic theory behind quantum computing, and i certainly do realise that the world is definitely not at all what it seems when you take a good, deep down look into the way things are and work.

the world needs people like you. the world probably needs less people like me who only make their clients and company more wealthy

Don't belittle your job Taku. The world need you otherwise how would future scientists get research money to carry on finding new things/developments which will make our life easier?

[Max Mosley 2]

Indeed. Making money is important too. People become scientists not to better the world but to indulge their passions at other people's expense.

[cavallino 2]

Science has already paid for itself till eternity. Making money is becoming too important for me right now, I don't see myself going as far as a Phd Maybe a bit later in life.

[dribbler 6]

Perhaps you can do a study on how DC fits his square head into a spherical helmet

It shouldn't happen but sometimes it does. Look at how Villeneuve (square peg) fitted into a round hole (BMW Sauber).