Ron Dennis Compares Alonso To Senna

[MasterPlans 0]

Ron is trying to differentiate Alonso as better driver than Kimi, probaby true.

[stopkidding 0]

Yes the garbage is acceptable, but we at Total F1 do enjoy laughing at you 'Stopkidding' so dont stop.

Funny, like I said you should mention garbage though, because thats all that came to mind while reading your claim that Senna couldn't set up a car.

Now I understand you may have been about 3 while Senna was racing and I gather you have only been watching F1 for a short space of time, but for the record it is a know fact that Senna had a extremely special touch for setting up a car (probably more than any driver in the history of the sport).

Every documentary and team manager confirms this fact!

Schumacher also had a great setup touch for cars, and Alonso too it seems BUT Peter Sauber even confirmed in an interview with Autosport, Raikkonen couldn't setup ford Fiesta in a street race!

Ok Looks like you have problems with english comprehension, don't get personal and attack me because you disagree with me...

let me repeat myself, and you can go and read my previous post again. All I said was that Senna, "relied a lot on Prost's testing abilities while at McLaren", which doesn't imply that Senna wasn't able to setup his car. This also doesn't mean that Kimi can't set up a car. Some are better than others when it comes to testing and car developments and Some like Kimi and Senna will take a car and run away crazy with it by adapting to it.

My point is that Alonso is very similar to Prost, very clinical in his approach and a very technical driver where as Kimi is very similar to Senna, a seat of the pants kind of driver.

And since you don't take my word too seriously, here is a quote from Alain Prost himself from the Official Ayrton Senna DVD.

Transcribed from the DVD, starting 0:22:44

Alain Prost: I was doing all the tests. He wouldn't test in Winter, I did the testing for him. I don't think he was the best driver in setting up a car...

Alain Prost: ...but when it came to driving, mentally...getting the pole and being quick in one lap, he really was the best...

Alain Prost: ...So I don;t think I learned very much [from Senna], because...its a bit easier to learn about the car and how you can improve the car...than about the mental aspect [what separated Senna from the rest], because you can't change it just like that..

End of Transcription, 0:23:24

Now you can watch the DVD and see it for yourself, or claim Alain Prost was also talking out of his arse .....

And I don't need to prove my F1 credentials to you, and it shouldn't matter as I am not so full of myself...

[cavallino 2]

Frauds - Dennis, Flavio the lot. Todt praised Kimi before they hired him, putting money where the mouth was. Ron's criticism of Kimi late last year and now this is pathetic. I am no great Kimi fan but it is worth remembering that McMerc were singing a different tune abotu Kimi a while ago.

[Autumnpuma 0]

Frauds - Dennis, Flavio the lot. Todt praised Kimi before they hired him, putting money where the mouth was. Ron's criticism of Kimi late last year and now this is pathetic. I am no great Kimi fan but it is worth remembering that McMerc were singing a different tune abotu Kimi a while ago.

Yeah, they are all frauds (provided you include Todt in that 'lot' ) , but sometimes they speak the truth--as they see it, of course. I imagine when Kimi first started with McLaren, and they had DC and Wurz, Kimi's lack of technical input impacted the team less than it did recently (with JPM's weak input).

[Jem of the Shire 0]

Schumacher also had a great setup touch for cars, and Alonso too it seems BUT Peter Sauber even confirmed in an interview with Autosport, Raikkonen couldn't setup ford Fiesta in a street race!

and i will say yet again, Sauber worked with kimi in his rookie year when kimi's only experience was 23 races in formula renault. Obviously kimi has come a long long way since then

[cavallino 2]

Yeah, they are all frauds (provided you include Todt in that 'lot' )

Oh of course he is, how else do you think he got Michelle Not voer this issue though.

I imagine when Kimi first started with McLaren

Well the fact is the criticism didn't come after a season, or two or threee - ample time to get to know Kimi, it came after he decided to leave the team for another. Even before that, they made no secret of their desire to keep him. Sour grapes and all that...

, and they had DC and Wurz, Kimi's lack of technical input impacted the team less than it did recently (with JPM's weak input).

I doubt it. They still have De La Rosa.

[Autumnpuma 0]

I doubt it. They still have De La Rosa.

Maybe, but JPM has always been crap for testing and Kimi is a bit weak at it....there's only so much one test driver, however good, can do.

[raikkonen_dominates2 0]

In addition, Kimi has recently stated that the Bridgestones are too hard for his liking. I expect a top-notch team like Ferrari to fix that by Oz, but there's always a chance it wont be fixed at all....and Kimi may suffer if he can't modify his style like Alonso can.....

I think Kimi can modify his style whatever is needed. It's just Kimi's style to say exactly what he thinks. I am sure he still thinks he is faster than whoever driver in the world, no matter how adaptive wonderboys we are talking about...

I think we will see it in Australia, who has adapted and who has been trying desperately to make impression to team bosses when it's actually all about making pre-season development to car.

[raikkonen_dominates2 0]

and i will say yet again, Sauber worked with kimi in his rookie year when kimi's only experience was 23 races in formula renault. Obviously kimi has come a long long way since then

I also remember when Kimi left Sauber for Mclaren, Peter gave some very bitter statements, but not about his car tuning skills, only he wanted so desperately keep Kimi that he could't understand what Mclaren could give they couldn't

[Max Mosley 2]

Maybe, but JPM has always been crap for testing and Kimi is a bit weak at it....there's only so much one test driver, however good, can do.

Indeed. And Pedro's requirements may well be subtly different from Kimi's or Fernando's in any case. No one should take Ron's words as the gospel truth of course, but personally in this case I see no convincing reason to suggest that he's lying outright. There's plenty of corroborating evidence that Fernando is more capable and hard-working on the technical side of F1.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Well the fact is the criticism didn't come after a season, or two or threee - ample time to get to know Kimi, it came after he decided to leave the team for another. Even before that, they made no secret of their desire to keep him. Sour grapes and all that...

correct

[Wez 0]

let me repeat myself, and you can go and read my previous post again. All I said was that Senna, "relied a lot on Prost's testing abilities while at McLaren"

Well... Since Senna & Prost were team mates for all of ONE season, I take slight notice of your point but dont consider it valid. NEXT....

[Wez 0]

There is one thing for certain... Kimi is no Alonso!

The Finn is undoubtedly a good driver but nowhere near the great Spaniard.

In a few years time Alonso will here 4 or 5 titles to his name and Kimi 1 or so & yet fans of the little talkative chap will still come up with every excuse under the sun as to why he is unfortunate and how he is infact/apparently better than King Alonso!

Its much like Senna vs Mansell in the '80/'90.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

Well... Since Senna & Prost were team mates for all of ONE season, I take slight notice of your point but dont consider it valid. NEXT....

i thought they were team-mates at mclaren 1988-1989?

[Wez 0]

i thought they were team-mates at mclaren 1988-1989?

Yes correct..

Meant, They were only team mates for one season in which Senna became champion.

Unless Berger did all the setup in his other title winning seasons according to 'Fanatic'.

It is a well know fact to seasoned f1 supporters that Senna was the king of car setup... maybe he got some help from Prost in his debut Mclaren season, but the truth is Senna was a mastermind when it came to this aspect of the game... As he was in most aspects infact.

I dont like Schumcher but I have heard he was also brilliant in this regard.

Alonso meant to be too....

Kimi on the other hand is renowned as been on the complete opposite side of the scale here.

Thats the point Ive been trying to get into peoples heads. BTW... I AM RIGHT!

[dribbler 6]

There is one thing for certain... Kimi is no Alonso!

Chalk tastes awful in sandwiches and cheese is hopeless on black boards. It's all about using them proerly.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Yes correct..

Meant, They were only team mates for one season in which Senna became champion.

Unless Berger did all the setup in his other title winning seasons according to 'Fanatic'.

It is a well know fact to seasoned f1 supporters that Senna was the king of car setup... maybe he got some help from Prost in his debut Mclaren season, but the truth is Senna was a mastermind when it came to this aspect of the game... As he was in most aspects infact.

I dont like Schumcher but I have heard he was also brilliant in this regard.

Alonso meant to be too....

Kimi on the other hand is renowned as been on the complete opposite side of the scale here.

Thats the point Ive been trying to get into peoples heads. BTW... I AM RIGHT!

You do not seem to understand Kimi's supposely weak point.......

He's "weak" with technical input, but very precise in terms of setup....

[raikkonen_dominates2 0]

You do not seem to understand Kimi's supposely weak point.......

He's "weak" with technical input, but very precise in terms of setup....

It is just bulls##t to say that some driver would be strong with technical input. They are drivers, have no technical edulcation, have never worked in any technical job, that's quite far away from engineer. On the other hand, some drivers can give very accurate information about car behaviour, and Mclaren has admitted Kimi is very good at it. So this talking about 'Alonso / Schumacher is almost engineer' is absolutely bulls##t. For technical setup all the teams have engineers. I think this nonsense has begun from Peter Sauber's rumoured talking, but on the other hand it is not even confirmed, and on the other hand he knows nothing about Kimi's ability to setup the car.

[dribbler 6]

No one here knows how the Finn wind blows. Keep your weather forecasts until next month.

[stopkidding 0]

It is just bulls##t to say that some driver would be strong with technical input. They are drivers, have no technical edulcation, have never worked in any technical job, that's quite far away from engineer. On the other hand, some drivers can give very accurate information about car behaviour, and Mclaren has admitted Kimi is very good at it. So this talking about 'Alonso / Schumacher is almost engineer' is absolutely bulls##t. For technical setup all the teams have engineers. I think this nonsense has begun from Peter Sauber's rumoured talking, but on the other hand it is not even confirmed, and on the other hand he knows nothing about Kimi's ability to setup the car.

Considering any top F1 driver spends hundreds of hours each year testing the car, studying telemetry with engineers after each session and racing all year long for many many years, its only reasonable to that they learn to understand how a car works and what makes it fast.

Give this a thought, there are some people on this forum who have never even seen an F1 car upclose, but can accurately gauge if the car is understeering or if there is dirty air under the front wing by merely looking at a photograph. I am sure a driver gets a lot closer into the action to understand how a car should work and how to make it better

Oh Bajo! where are you? I miss you so!

[Wez 0]

It is just bulls##t to say that some driver would be strong with technical input. They are drivers, have no technical edulcation, have never worked in any technical job, that's quite far away from engineer. On the other hand, some drivers can give very accurate information about car behaviour, and Mclaren has admitted Kimi is very good at it. So this talking about 'Alonso / Schumacher is almost engineer' is absolutely bulls##t. For technical setup all the teams have engineers. I think this nonsense has begun from Peter Sauber's rumoured talking, but on the other hand it is not even confirmed, and on the other hand he knows nothing about Kimi's ability to setup the car.

Sorry mate, But im going to take Ron Dennis, Peter Sauber and co's views on F1 drivers more seriously than yours. No offense!

[Jem of the Shire 0]

kimi himself admits that he can be lazy when it comes to techincal input. However, it doesnt seem to take anything away from his on-track performances, so who cares

[Quiet One 15]

kimi himself admits that he can be lazy when it comes to techincal input. However, it doesnt seem to take anything away from his on-track performances, so who cares

Finally a person that uses his brain rather than his fists!

Exactly, his lack of technical knowledge does not take anything away from his track performances. It is a hindrance when it comes to set up, and he might have benefited had he the technical abilities other drivers have, but that does not mean he is not fast (obviously!)

Saying that he gives no technical input is just a trait of his personality. Kimi lovers shouldn't take that as an offense. There are lots of intuitive genius in different sports, Kimi is one of them, not because I say that, but because everybody that worked with him said that, while no one praised his technical knowledge (except for his fans). It's widely known that Rubinho used to drive using just one feet on the pedals instead of both. That didn't prevent him for making that ugly brick of a Stewart-Ford fly!

Geez, can't you people distinguish between comments on personal traits from personal attacks? Should we Alonso fans threaten to sue you every time you make a comment on his eyebrows or his agressive way of turning on curves?

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Finally a person that uses his brain rather than his fists!

Exactly, his lack of technical knowledge does not take anything away from his track performances. It is a hindrance when it comes to set up, and he might have benefited had he the technical abilities other drivers have, but that does not mean he is not fast (obviously!)

Saying that he gives no technical input is just a trait of his personality. Kimi lovers shouldn't take that as an offense. There are lots of intuitive genius in different sports, Kimi is one of them, not because I say that, but because everybody that worked with him said that, while no one praised his technical knowledge (except for his fans). It's widely known that Rubinho used to drive using just one feet on the pedals instead of both. That didn't prevent him for making that ugly brick of a Stewart-Ford fly!

Geez, can't you people distinguish between comments on personal traits from personal attacks? Should we Alonso fans threaten to sue you every time you make a comment on his eyebrows or his agressive way of turning on curves?

thats exactly our point, BUT his so-called laziness at this specific area does'nt mean he can't do it, or does it, in your eyes? To then pitch up at a race, be PRECISE (this comes from the Mclaren guys themselves) in terms of his setup, be CONSISTENTLY faster than his teammates, means he must be absolute GENIUS!!!!!!!! It means he's WAAYYYYY BETTER than Alonso...

at least one Alonso fan SEES this!!!!!

[Wez 0]

Finally a person that uses his brain rather than his fists!

Exactly, his lack of technical knowledge does not take anything away from his track performances. It is a hindrance when it comes to set up, and he might have benefited had he the technical abilities other drivers have, but that does not mean he is not fast (obviously!)

Saying that he gives no technical input is just a trait of his personality. Kimi lovers shouldn't take that as an offense. There are lots of intuitive genius in different sports, Kimi is one of them, not because I say that, but because everybody that worked with him said that, while no one praised his technical knowledge (except for his fans). It's widely known that Rubinho used to drive using just one feet on the pedals instead of both. That didn't prevent him for making that ugly brick of a Stewart-Ford fly!

Geez, can't you people distinguish between comments on personal traits from personal attacks? Should we Alonso fans threaten to sue you every time you make a comment on his eyebrows or his agressive way of turning on curves?

EXACTLY, There is no doubt Kimi is very fast and the second best driver in F1 infact only behind the champ, but the fact he cant setup his own car to the extent of certain other drivers does take a bit away from him in the overall picture.

As for Barrichello, Alistair Gibson was saying to my dad that on the telemetry Barrichello is a few hundreds od a second slower than Button on every single acceleration point because of the fact he only uses one foot... Likewise Kimi's inability to setup cars may hamper him at times, particularly in a new team.