Bahrain Race Thread

[cavallino 2]

You're right that Button should be as much of a role model, but I think many black kids will see things differently.

If black kids see things differently, then they are being brought up in the wrong circumstances. And I think it is time, at least in evolved societies like Britain to think about why black kids want black role models rather than trying to find black role models for black kids. Ideally, it would matter as much as short kids having tall role models or dark haired kids having blonde role models.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

I think it would only be significant if he was the first African F1 driver. He's born and bred in England, he's just another English driver who happens to have a black Dad

[Kay 0]

We have to realise the significance and the impact Lewis has made....already. He's the first black driver, he's broken records, he's kept Alonso, Massa and Kimi at bay, cool head under pressure. He's on his way of becoming the next Tiger Woods of motorracing. Extraordinary achievement to date, regardless if he stepped into a top team or not. He is though, the perfect component for the media to concentrate on, not only ITV. It's not his fault everyone is mentioning his name, or making this huge fuss about him. Maybe our mindset that the commentators might be mentioning him too much is already dictating negative "pictures", and as Shane said, I have'nt really notice it that much. Let's all be civil about the "hype", and take all matters into consideration.

I don't understand why you replied to my e-mail with this post. Seems a lot of people get their 'back' up when someone speaks their mind.

1. I never said the boy hasn't done good.

2. I never said it was his fault; in fact I said it was their fault that some now dislike him - this I've seen big time on another forum.

3. You may not have noticed, I have, others have, does that mean myself and others can't be irritated just because you aren't?

Thought not.

You're actually saying, lets 'just' share my opinion, sorry, I have my own.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

you are entitled to you opinion, and i won't argue about it. I was merely pointing out how odd such references sound. I consider Hamilton to be a very talented driver. In all likelihood he would have turned out just as good had he been from a similar "white" background...

we both do, and he's proving his worth on merit, just as I see my real life circumstances, I will not settle for a affirmative position or BEE otherwise, and believe me there's lot of opportunities to earn more. It won't make me happy. But I really don't see a problem with the naming of ethniticity, for me it enhances Lewis's achievements, as I believe it does mine.....personally. I do not want to say I'll stop saying it in fear of offending you or others, but i'll try, based on your good response above.

[Kay 0]

So if you draw attention to race / ethnicity in a positive fashion it is fine, but if it is in a negative fashion you are a racist.

Personally, if someone draws attention to race, positively or negatively, they are still drawing attention to a difference and while a difference is still being highlighted upon, you are always going to have racism by reminding people.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

So if you draw attention to race / ethnicity in a positive fashion it is fine, but if it is in a negative fashion you are a racist.

Personally, if someone draws attention to race, positively or negatively, they are still drawing attention to a difference and while a difference is still being highlighted upon, you are always going to have racism by reminding people.

i'm not disagreeing with you but what you're saying would mean the media are all racist!! I see your point.

[Fed up 0]

I think it would only be significant if he was the first African F1 driver. He's born and bred in England, he's just another English driver who happens to have a black Dad

Utter rubbish!

[Quiet One 15]

Women and men are physiologically different. White men and black men and other coloured men aren't.

That is clear for you and me. Not for others.

Anyways, is not that I think its a big deal Lewis being black. I just am glad to know that finally F1 world realizes that.

Nothing more, nothing less.

[Fed up 0]

There actually hasn't been that much said about Lewis' ethnicity over here as far as I've noticed. Having said that, I'm glad Lewis is black. F1 has been a white-dominated sport for too long but more importantly there are lots of problems in black communities (eg in Britain young black men are twice as likely to be in prison than university!), many of which imho stem from a paucity of good, successful role models, especially male ones. Tiger Woods and Lewis Hamilton are both great role models, along with people like Thierry Henry. Most footballers, whether black, white or indigo, are poor role models and moreover football somehow has a different image than golf or F1. These latter sports, for me, represent wealth, privilege, respectability and acceptance into mainstream society far more than football.

Karty, Sato et al are treated differently because they got into F1 on the back of being non-white, whereas Lewis' talent justifies his place entirely. In fact, he's the only non-white person I can think of in the history of F1 who had any real talent.

Well said

[Fed up 0]

That is clear for you and me. Not for others.

Anyways, is not that I think its a big deal Lewis being black. I just am glad to know that finally F1 world realizes that.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Ignorance is bliss

White men, black men, chinese men etc are not the same - We are all different - Think about it

[Jem of the Shire 0]

Karty, Sato et al are treated differently because they got into F1 on the back of being non-white, whereas Lewis' talent justifies his place entirely. In fact, he's the only non-white person I can think of in the history of F1 who had any real talent.

I disagree. Karthikeyan's entry to F1 was to do with his nationality, not because he was brown. He was basically the first Indian who had decent driving talent.

Sato got into F1 on genuine talent (Jordan signed him), then later maintained his place in F1 largely due to his nationality being the same as Honda.

Utter rubbish!

why do u say that? are you all for 'black pride' etc?

[BradSpeedMan 6]

I don't understand why you replied to my e-mail with this post. Seems a lot of people get their 'back' up when someone speaks their mind.

1. I never said the boy hasn't done good.

2. I never said it was his fault; in fact I said it was their fault that some now dislike him - this I've seen big time on another forum.

3. You may not have noticed, I have, others have, does that mean myself and others can't be irritated just because you aren't?

Thought not.

You're actually saying, lets 'just' share my opinion, sorry, I have my own.

You're implying Lewis is mentioned every 2nd word (so to speak), "left, right and centre", in your own words. You have even gone as far as imposing your opinion on our dear ITV group with that e-mail, you've suggested it won't go beyond the first e-mail, just who's trying to share whose opinion here. "but I feel if I don't express my view then I have no right to expect anything to change." Yes, you've express your view or opinion, but you also want change. I'm merely pointing out it is'nt so, as I've watch the same race as you and don't think he was mentioned THAT MUCH....

[Juiceman05 0]

The "race" as it applies to color of skin isn't worth arguing over imo. f1 is soo diverse, hell argue the hispanic point too if you're going to "go there."

Lewis is an awesome driver. His potential based on these last races is, well the best... ever (and i'm sure it has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with his skin color >_> ). And it's quite intoxicating. Evertime i watch him race, i just can't believe how good he is... hell he can't believe how good he is lol

Masa/Kimi/Alonso really have their work cut out for them in their championship hungry careers with this rookie coming in soo strong.

[Kay 0]

You're implying Lewis is mentioned every 2nd word (so to speak), "left, right and centre", in your own words. You have even gone as far as imposing your opinion on our dear ITV group with that e-mail, you've suggested it won't go beyond the first e-mail, just who's trying to share whose opinion here. "but I feel if I don't express my view then I have no right to expect anything to change." Yes, you've express your view or opinion, but you also want change. I'm merely pointing out it is'nt so, as I've watch the same race as you and don't think he was mentioned THAT MUCH....

1. Try going back and reading my e-mail, I actually said:

"I have noticed from speaking to others, that the support of Jenson has increased since ITV stopped mentioning him left, right and centre."

So don't misquote me please. At least check something before you post it, ok? I'm not 'implying' anything, just your assumption.

2. You've hit the jackpot and then completely missed the point. The whole point of the e-mail is one my own beliefs - Don't moan about something unless you are going to take action. If I moan about the coverage and don't take action I am a hypocrite. Yet you've missed that.

3. I 'imposed' it on them? No, I shared it. I haven't said anyone with a different opinion should change to mine, I've said simply lots share it. I know this because I know of many others that have sent e-mails. ITV have a talkback e-mail address for what exactly? So no one e-mails them?

4. When they show Lewis's dad instead of the full press conference it is THAT MUCH.

Your claims I am imposing anything on anyone are crazy, you are the one sitting there typing why I shouldn't have e-mailed them through an e-mail address which is specifically for these types of e-mail address. If you feel the coverage was fine, fair enough, go e-mail them that if you want, but that doesn't mean I can't have a difference of opinion just because you take offence.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

1. Try going back and reading my e-mail, I actually said:

"I have noticed from speaking to others, that the support of Jenson has increased since ITV stopped mentioning him left, right and centre."

So don't misquote me please. At least check something before you post it, ok? I'm not 'implying' anything, just your assumption.

2. You've hit the jackpot and then completely missed the point. The whole point of the e-mail is one my own beliefs - Don't moan about something unless you are going to take action. If I moan about the coverage and don't take action I am a hypocrite. Yet you've missed that.

3. I 'imposed' it on them? No, I shared it. I haven't said anyone with a different opinion should change to mine, I've said simply lots share it. I know this because I know of many others that have sent e-mails. ITV have a talkback e-mail address for what exactly? So no one e-mails them?

4. When they show Lewis's dad instead of the full press conference it is THAT MUCH.

Your claims I am imposing anything on anyone are crazy, you are the one sitting there typing why I shouldn't have e-mailed them through an e-mail address which is specifically for these types of e-mail address. If you feel the coverage was fine, fair enough, go e-mail them that if you want, but that doesn't mean I can't have a difference of opinion just because you take offence.

Dearest Kay-zee,

I humbly apologise...I was wrong

oh, you brought up something, I just remembered, that thing about showing Erin's face in the pitwall everytime her husband raced, was quite silly was'nt it. She seems like the controlling type, would'nt have her as a wife no way. a Man's gotta feel for Mika, no wonder he turned to smoking

[monza gorilla 1]

In fact, he's the only non-white person I can think of in the history of F1 who had any real talent.

Prince Bira.

[Max Mosley 2]

Cheers Russ! I'm surprised it took this long. And I still wonder if Fangio, or any other drivers, count as Hispanic...

If black kids see things differently, then they are being brought up in the wrong circumstances. And I think it is time, at least in evolved societies like Britain to think about why black kids want black role models rather than trying to find black role models for black kids. Ideally, it would matter as much as short kids having tall role models or dark haired kids having blonde role models.

Yes of course but that is the very problem. Another thing that occurs to me now is that Lewis and Tiger are good examples of black kids integrating exactly as you (rightly) want to see. That is perhaps the best way they can be role models.

I disagree. Karthikeyan's entry to F1 was to do with his nationality, not because he was brown. He was basically the first Indian who had decent driving talent.

Sato got into F1 on genuine talent (Jordan signed him), then later maintained his place in F1 largely due to his nationality being the same as Honda.

OK but nationality and race in the cases of Japan and India are arguably the same thing for practical purposes: either way, those drivers "succeeded" largely by virtue of being of Indian and Japanese rather than European origin. Also I don't think they had much talent, and I don't think they got into F1 on talent either really.

[Quiet One 15]

Cheers Russ! I'm surprised it took this long. And I still wonder if Fangio, or any other drivers, count as Hispanic...

Yes of course but that is the very problem. Another thing that occurs to me now is that Lewis and Tiger are good examples of black kids integrating exactly as you (rightly) want to see. That is perhaps the best way they can be role models.

OK but nationality and race in the cases of Japan and India are arguably the same thing for practical purposes: either way, those drivers "succeeded" largely by virtue of being of Indian and Japanese rather than European origin. Also I don't think they had much talent, and I don't think they got into F1 on talent either really.

Fangio don't count as hispanic. He was fair skinned and had blue eyes. And he had Italian blood too. Anyways, it's not such a big deal all this as there were not groups rising in uproar about a black man racing in F1 (as it could have happened in previous times). It is just a step forward in integrationism. Just that.

[Shane2 0]

Lewis is only getting the same kind of coverage people gave button throughout most of last year, and nobody complained about that. I really cannot see the big deal at all.

[Autumnpuma 0]

Women and men are physiologically different. White men and black men and other coloured men aren't.

Yikes another long thread. Cav's statement caught my eye so I'll respond to it.

The 'Negroid' race (as it was called when I was in college in the 90's) has denser skin and muscle tissue. Facial bone structure is also different from the 'Caucasoid' and 'Mongoloid' races. Label people how you will, there are definite differences between the races. Knowing that is true isn't 'racism'. Racism is the exclusion of one race, or the debasing of that race, based on those differences.

Now, Hammy being 'Negroid' gives him no special edge over the competition. You could argue the denser muscles are an edge, but that 'densness' is a so small a difference to 'Caucasoid and 'Mongoloid' muscles to be virtually nothing.

Women can race effectively, physically speaking, if they train themselves to the proper level. They will need to train more to get there, but once there they should do fine. The biggest hurdle, as I see it, for women racers is that they need to overcome the 'safe' mentality. Men will take more risks with themselves than women will, as a general rule. This can keep a woman from really racing on that edge you need to be at to be competitive at the higher levels. This is the same reason why young males tend to make faster racers than older males. The older you get the stronger that annoying 'self-preservation' instinct is felt.

[Kay 0]

Lewis is only getting the same kind of coverage people gave button throughout most of last year, and nobody complained about that. I really cannot see the big deal at all.

Really? Sure you don't want to go back on that before I prove that one wrong too?

[Shane2 0]

Well I didn't see anyone complain about it, but I was referring in general life not TotalF1, People on this forum seem to complain about anything and everything. I joined just after 2006 ended so I didn't really see what went on here during the season

[Kay 0]

Well I didn't see anyone complain about it, but I was referring in general life not TotalF1, People on this forum seem to complain about anything and everything. I joined just after 2006 ended so I didn't really see what went on here during the season

Exactly, you made a sweeping comment based on nothing but assumption. As a Button fan, I also sent ITV an e-mail during their 'Button hype' faze (along with others), as I ensure whenever I feel strong enough to complain about something, I take action too.

[Shane2 0]

Well good for you, how many others can you honestly say did the same thing

[Kay 0]

Well good for you, how many others can you honestly say did the same thing

Around as many as have done it this time, but you'd have known that from the e-mail I posted...

I have noticed from speaking to others, that the support of Jenson has increased since ITV stopped mentioning him left, right and centre.

The only occasion I can think of that has got more e-mails going from the sources I read is about the USA 6 car race debate.