403 replies to this topic

[Insider]

So, Kimi is back to drive an reasonable uncompetitive car for a team who can barely afford him.  It doesn't send any tingles down my spine, I can tell you. I never felt he was a value added contributor to the F1 circus, rather more a predator upon it and I certainly don't think his return will have any of the top drivers concerned in the slightest.  This move probably brings Bruno Senna's short career in a midfield car to an abrupt end as the heavy-handed Kamerad Petrov brings a lot more cash to the party. The slight bonus is that though somewhat tarnished, the Lotus name re-emerges [again!] from the ashes. However, the only thing they seem to have going for them is a good engine.  A driver team consisting of a very rusty, out of nick former WDC Finn and an extremely clumsy, former Lada Cup[?]winner is hardly a stunning prospect.  I don't blame Robert for hitting reverse and staying well clear, [if that is what he is doing].  LRGP came fifth this year and he won't be impressed with that.  He probably knows there was little he could have done about that even if he had been in the car.

Edited by Insider, 29 November 2011 - 03:27 PM.

[BradSpeedMan]

Insider, on 29 November 2011 - 03:24 PM, said:

So, Kimi is back to drive an reasonable uncompetitive car for a team who can barely afford him.  It doesn't send any tingles down my spine, I can tell you. I never felt he was a value added contributor to the F1 circus, rather more a predator upon it and I certainly don't think his return will have any of the top drivers concerned in the slightest.  This move probably brings Bruno Senna's short career in a midfield car to an abrupt end as the heavy-handed Kamerad Petrov brings a lot more cash to the party. The slight bonus is that though somewhat tarnished, the Lotus name re-emerges [again!] from the ashes. However, the only thing they seem to have going for them is a good engine.  A driver team consisting of a very rusty, out of nick former WDC Finn and an extremely clumsy, former Lada Cup[?]winner is hardly a stunning prospect.  I don't blame Robert for hitting reverse and staying well clear, [if that is what he is doing].  LRGP came fifth this year and he won't be impressed with that.  He probably knows there was little he could have done about that even if he had been in the car.

I'de rather take Alesi's word above yours, he was after all an f1 driver...

"It's fantastic news," said Alesi, now working as an ambassador for Group Lotus. "Kimi has more natural speed than just about anyone who has ever raced a Grand Prix car, and if he's coming back it's because he wants to do it, he misses F1, and he believes he can do well. "He has had a short break, which was a little bit forced by Ferrari. I think he was fed up with the system and wanted to take time out, which I can totally understand. But now he's coming back, with Lotus, so it's really exciting. Alesi expects Raikkonen to be able to get the maximum out of next year's car despite his absence from Formula 1. He added: "The great thing with Kimi is he extracts the maximum from a quick car. When the car was good at McLaren and Ferrari he was always winning. LRGP will expect him to extract the maximum from the Lotus as well." The Frenchman reckons that Raikkonen's natural speed will be a "very valuable" to help the team move forward. "F1 teams need a driver who will consistently set laptimes that are 100 per cent on the edge," he said. "That is what a driver of Kimi's caliber can do, to dance on the edge and never fall off. From that, the engineers get a baseline. "They understand the true speed of their car and can make changes accordingly. It eradicates any doubt. I expect Kimi will be a very valuable tool indeed. But I don't expect a lot of talking outside the car! I'm sure he hasn't changed a bit."


This is how I think most people know Kimi. If you got some facts substantiating him just being a predator upon F1 pls substantiate

Edited by BradSpeedMan, 29 November 2011 - 03:43 PM.

[Quiet One]

In all fairness, Brad, the "Alessi, now working as an ambassador for Group Lotus..." part is something you should ponder when quoting his comments on Kimi

[BradSpeedMan]

Quiet One, on 29 November 2011 - 03:47 PM, said:

In all fairness, Brad, the "Alessi, now working as an ambassador for Group Lotus..." part is something you should ponder when quoting his comments on Kimi

I know....

Whats your thoughts on Kimi, or do u agree with Insider

[BradSpeedMan]

LOOK...this does'nt come from Alesi!!!!

"Raikkonen can help Lotus enormously. Ferrari engineers say that he gave them crucial feedback even when it wasn’t needed or required, with the media often judging Raikkonen as uncommunicative with teams because of his sketchy relationship with them."

Maybe Sean is just caught up in the trap of the media...hehe

[Insider]

BradSpeedMan, on 29 November 2011 - 03:40 PM, said:

I'de rather take Alesi's word above yours, he was after all an f1 driver...

"It's fantastic news," said Alesi, now working as an ambassador for Group Lotus. "Kimi has more natural speed than just about anyone who has ever raced a Grand Prix car, and if he's coming back it's because he wants to do it, he misses F1, and he believes he can do well. "He has had a short break, which was a little bit forced by Ferrari. I think he was fed up with the system and wanted to take time out, which I can totally understand. But now he's coming back, with Lotus, so it's really exciting. Alesi expects Raikkonen to be able to get the maximum out of next year's car despite his absence from Formula 1. He added: "The great thing with Kimi is he extracts the maximum from a quick car. When the car was good at McLaren and Ferrari he was always winning. LRGP will expect him to extract the maximum from the Lotus as well." The Frenchman reckons that Raikkonen's natural speed will be a "very valuable" to help the team move forward. "F1 teams need a driver who will consistently set laptimes that are 100 per cent on the edge," he said. "That is what a driver of Kimi's caliber can do, to dance on the edge and never fall off. From that, the engineers get a baseline. "They understand the true speed of their car and can make changes accordingly. It eradicates any doubt. I expect Kimi will be a very valuable tool indeed. But I don't expect a lot of talking outside the car! I'm sure he hasn't changed a bit."


This is how I think most people know Kimi. If you got some facts substantiating him just being a predator upon F1 pls substantiate

Well my intention was to provoke debate. He was quick in his day but he's been rallying without much success though this year has been his best, [ 34 points from 10 races] and his NASCAR outings have been less than spectacular. Hearsay from usually reliable sources  is, Kimi was and is a loner, [nothing wrong with that if your not operating in a team-driven environment ] and part of the Scuderia's beef with him was that he struggled to fulfil his non-racing commitments for the teams sponsors and found it hard to communicate with the engineers.  All at a time when he was allegedly, the highest paid driver in F1 history.  If you take that much out of the sport you have to give something back to the fans and your employers to my mind. He always seemed reluctant to do so. That's how I remember him. Ferrari moved him along for someone who fulfils all those roles. The new fly in the ointment is that Boullier, who allegedly wants rid of Petrov for Grosjean may get the boot. Oh oh!

Edited by Insider, 29 November 2011 - 05:56 PM.

[Schumikonen]

BradSpeedMan, on 29 November 2011 - 03:40 PM, said:

I'de rather take Alesi's word above yours, he was after all an f1 driver...

"It's fantastic news," said Alesi, now working as an ambassador for Group Lotus. "Kimi has more natural speed than just about anyone who has ever raced a Grand Prix car, and if he's coming back it's because he wants to do it, he misses F1, and he believes he can do well. "He has had a short break, which was a little bit forced by Ferrari. I think he was fed up with the system and wanted to take time out, which I can totally understand. But now he's coming back, with Lotus, so it's really exciting. Alesi expects Raikkonen to be able to get the maximum out of next year's car despite his absence from Formula 1. He added: "The great thing with Kimi is he extracts the maximum from a quick car. When the car was good at McLaren and Ferrari he was always winning. LRGP will expect him to extract the maximum from the Lotus as well." The Frenchman reckons that Raikkonen's natural speed will be a "very valuable" to help the team move forward. "F1 teams need a driver who will consistently set laptimes that are 100 per cent on the edge," he said. "That is what a driver of Kimi's caliber can do, to dance on the edge and never fall off. From that, the engineers get a baseline. "They understand the true speed of their car and can make changes accordingly. It eradicates any doubt. I expect Kimi will be a very valuable tool indeed. But I don't expect a lot of talking outside the car! I'm sure he hasn't changed a bit."


This is how I think most people know Kimi. If you got some facts substantiating him just being a predator upon F1 pls substantiate

me too.

[Schumikonen]

Insider, on 29 November 2011 - 05:50 PM, said:

Well my intention was to provoke debate. He was quick in his day but he's been rallying without much success though this year has been his best, [ 34 points from 10 races] and his NASCAR outings have been less than spectacular. Hearsay from usually reliable sources  is, Kimi was and is a loner, [nothing wrong with that if your not operating in a team-driven environment ] and part of the Scuderia's beef with him was that he struggled to fulfil his non-racing commitments for the teams sponsors and found it hard to communicate with the engineers.  All at a time when he was allegedly, the highest paid driver in F1 history.  If you take that much out of the sport you have to give something back to the fans and your employers to my mind. He always seemed reluctant to do so. That's how I remember him. Ferrari moved him along for someone who fulfils all those roles. The new fly in the ointment is that Boullier, who allegedly wants rid of Petrov for Grosjean may get the boot. Oh oh!

He was quick right to the very last race, have you forgot how he kept that trash car on the podium for almost have a season and even won a Spa even when Ferrari gave up updating that car? don't you remember how his teammates performed on that same period including Fifi who came on second in a Force India in Spa and he couldn't even manage to get a single point in that car while Kimi was finishing on the podium? it all depends from what point of view you and to see it, Kimi is fast he maybe a little out of shape right now but he will do a great job and I wouldn't be surprise if the become a title contender in that team in a couple of years.

[Argento Reloaded]

Well MSC won´t be alone in 2012...

[Schumikonen]

Argento Reloaded, on 29 November 2011 - 06:47 PM, said:

Well MSC won´t be alone in 2012...

you are right he will be fast in 2012 too.  

[Schumikonen]

Insider, on 29 November 2011 - 05:50 PM, said:

Well my intention was to provoke debate. He was quick in his day but he's been rallying without much success though this year has been his best, [ 34 points from 10 races] and his NASCAR outings have been less than spectacular. Hearsay from usually reliable sources  is, Kimi was and is a loner, [nothing wrong with that if your not operating in a team-driven environment ] and part of the Scuderia's beef with him was that he struggled to fulfil his non-racing commitments for the teams sponsors and found it hard to communicate with the engineers.  All at a time when he was allegedly, the highest paid driver in F1 history.  If you take that much out of the sport you have to give something back to the fans and your employers to my mind. He always seemed reluctant to do so. That's how I remember him. Ferrari moved him along for someone who fulfils all those roles. The new fly in the ointment is that Boullier, who allegedly wants rid of Petrov for Grosjean may get the boot. Oh oh!

But Ferrari haven't won anything with this "someone" while Kimi won a WDC in the first year with them.  

[Insider]

Well, at least I've got most of you at it. Nice to see the forum at work again

[Negative Ions]

Insider, on 29 November 2011 - 05:50 PM, said:

If you take that much out of the sport you have to give something back to the fans and your employers to my mind.

Whatchu talkin bout Willis?  Kimi gives more back to the fans that any other driver out there.  He speaks (his vision of) the truth, unlike the corporate children that make up the rest of the field, Hamilton being the primary example.  You cant get a straight answer from most of those drongos, its always the corporate line.

Kimi goes hard, and stays true to himself on and off the track. he talks straight, he says what he thinks, and he does what he wants and the fans love his honestly.  And unfortunately for your comments about not giving back to the fans, he is probably the most popular driver on the grid amongst the general populous.

And no-one outside his teams engineers will ever know what hes like to work with at a professional level, you can only speculate.  In a world where the driver is fast becoming a highly paid accessory to the car, it doesnt even matter.  They can work out how the car runs better with a computer now than with driver feedback...  !!

[KoolMonkey]

Webber get's praise for telling it like it is, yet a good portion of the time his words of "telling it like it is" is a veiled attempt at a whinge.

Kimi get's no praise when he speaks the truth, and if you're not a one celled amoeba, you'll find he has never said a single bad word about another driver, or team. Who of the current drivers can we say has achieved that? Negative Ions is correct, Kimi has always spoken his mind, and I believe has always been honest and truthful. That's one of the things fans love about him. You only have to look at how he handled being tossed out of Ferrari, how the management then insulted him, and see he was all class.

It must drive people here crazy who are not fans of Kimi to see he still has one of the biggest fan bases around. You only have to look at all the comments on a multitude of F1 websites to see the excitement, people stating they will now buy Sky or whatever cable channel in order to see F1 next year. Maybe you all find it comforting to just repeat all the concocted negative made up stuff when it comes to Kimi, rather than admit you've never bothered to actually read or find out for yourself if any of it was true.

*cue some idiot posting about Kimi's motivation any minute now*

[yurp]

BradSpeedMan, on 29 November 2011 - 03:55 PM, said:

"Raikkonen can help Lotus enormously. Ferrari engineers say that he gave them crucial feedback even when it wasn’t needed or required, with the media often judging Raikkonen as uncommunicative with teams because of his sketchy relationship with them."

That's how I've always seen it. Kimi doesn't have much time for the media - he doesn't play the standard 'F1 friendly guy in a car' game that they want him to. I'd like to think it's because he finds it fake. It may be just because he's bored by it / too lazy.
Either way, it is a mistake to think that he would treat something he evidently loves (racing) in the same way as something he evidently doesn't like (press commitments).
Within any team that is working towards actually making a car go faster Kimi will be utterly and enthusiastically committed as any driver will be.

[Schumikonen]

I agree with everybody since my last post. I just can wait to see Kimi in F1 again.

[BradSpeedMan]

KoolMonkey, on 30 November 2011 - 12:17 AM, said:

Maybe you all find it comforting to just repeat all the concocted negative made up stuff when it comes to Kimi, rather than admit you've never bothered to actually read or find out for yourself if any of it was true.

*cue some idiot posting about Kimi's motivation any minute now*

most probably

[Negative Ions]

Man I hate Renault.

Kimi just joined Renault.

Man I need to buy some Renault gear.

[Kopite Girl]

Kimi back in F1 means Brad can remove his head from Vettel's arse and be all Bradsexy again.

(I you Brad )

[Kopite Girl]

Negative Ions, on 30 November 2011 - 04:58 AM, said:

Man I hate Renault.

Kimi just joined Renault.

Man I need to buy some Renault gear.

I enjoy reading your posts, you've made me laugh a few times now.

[BradSpeedMan]

Kopite Girl, on 30 November 2011 - 05:08 AM, said:

Kimi back in F1 means Brad can remove his head from Vettel's arse and be all Bradsexy again.

(I you Brad )

   u too

[maure]

Insider, on 29 November 2011 - 05:50 PM, said:

Well my intention was to provoke debate.

Funny.

[dribbler]

Insider, on 29 November 2011 - 03:24 PM, said:

So, Kimi is back to drive an reasonable uncompetitive car for a team who can barely afford him.  It doesn't send any tingles down my spine, I can tell you. I never felt he was a value added contributor to the F1 circus, rather more a predator upon it and I certainly don't think his return will have any of the top drivers concerned in the slightest.  This move probably brings Bruno Senna's short career in a midfield car to an abrupt end as the heavy-handed Kamerad Petrov brings a lot more cash to the party. The slight bonus is that though somewhat tarnished, the Lotus name re-emerges [again!] from the ashes. However, the only thing they seem to have going for them is a good engine.  A driver team consisting of a very rusty, out of nick former WDC Finn and an extremely clumsy, former Lada Cup[?]winner is hardly a stunning prospect.  I don't blame Robert for hitting reverse and staying well clear, [if that is what he is doing].  LRGP came fifth this year and he won't be impressed with that.  He probably knows there was little he could have done about that even if he had been in the car.

The reality is that Kimi will need time to establish himself and with rule stability, Lotus will not be front runners from the start.

However, I think he will give it his all and this will result in some solid performances. For me, he is a far better prospect than a Heidfeld, Grosjean or a Petrov.

He brings a reputation. This may be questionable in the eyes of many but for me, the thought of a re-invigorated Raikkonen is a tantalising propsect. He can lift the hopes of the team and demand improvements in a way that none of the aformentioned would ever be able to (and in the way that a pre-accident Kubica almost certainly did). This is because when Kimi is on it, there is no question mark around his speed. This means that he can say "I'm doing my bit - where is my competitive car?" This is how Alonso leads, by example.

As for Kubica, I do not think for one minute that he decided to stay away. Rather more that this decision was made for him due to his physical condition. I believe he would drive anything right now, regardless of its competitive state. He needs miles and a confidence build. No better way to do this in a car that doesn't carry the weight of expectation.

As comebacks go, I would even go as far to say that it has far more potential for success than Schumacher's ever did. Easy to say with hindsight, but Kimi is still young and unlike Michael, still has much to prove - especially to the nay sayers.

So my spine is not tingling, but it has mild electrical impulses.

[Insider]

Someone recently remarked that this forum had become boring and was heading for oblivion.  Well, I figured getting stuck into Kimi might bring a few of you back to the fray, such was your level of adulation back in the day. On a less incendiary level, let me just say that Kimi never lit up my life in much the same way that J-P Montoya and Jacques Villeneuve never did either. Everyone raves about Ayrton but for me, Schumi was a much better driver in his day.  The raw speed merchants seem to blow hot and cold for one reason or another. In Senna's case, fate intervened. With others, inconsistent machinery lets them down. In all honesty, I like drivers who drive with a passion for their team. As is true in all sports, you can put 'stars' into a team but it's a damn sight harder to put 'team' into your stars. That wrangles with me. I really don't see Kimi as a 'team' person at all. To me, he's a hired gun who will work for the highest bidder and he could care less who it is. That's fine but it doesn't score points with me. But, never mind folks, I'll get over it.

[dribbler]

And another thing;

Whilst apathy, objectivity and fence sitting does not thought provoking debate make, I encourage all of you to put a more rounded opinion on your posts.

This forum was at its very best when we all knew what our various allegiances/dislikes were, but respected them by giving and taking.

Many of you are child like in your observations and comments, or too stubborn.

Remember, none of us actually know what we are talking about (although we think we do). The way to find the real answers is to share opinions and reach 'most likely' conclusions as a result. This process is all to often blurred by members holding firm and not having the maturity to admit they might be wrong. Then mud slinging and personal insult gets thrown in, people groan, then leave.

This is why the forum is thin on the ground.

It should be vibrant and full of debate; we have just had a great season. All to often, I find myself scrawling through tripe and only reading then replying to members who I know are adding something worth reading. This can't be right.

There must be new fans coming to the sport who are intellignet and insightful. We just don't seem to attract them anymore.

So, those of you who are thinking through your posts, I urge you to continue. Those of you who are not fans of the sport or just come here to add piffle because homework is getting you down, please think or go away.

I'm up for a mass forum cull right now.

*edited for spelling, grammar and obnoxiousness.

Edited by dribbler, 30 November 2011 - 09:23 AM.

[Insider]

dribbler, on 30 November 2011 - 09:22 AM, said:

And another thing;

Whilst apathy, objectivity and fence sitting does not thought provoking debate make, I encourage all of you to put a more rounded opinion on your posts.

This forum was at its very best when we all knew what our various allegiances/dislikes were, but respected them by giving and taking.

Many of you are child like in your observations and comments, or too stubborn.

Remember, none of us actually know what we are talking about (although we think we do). The way to find the real answers is to share opinions and reach 'most likely' conclusions as a result. This process is all to often blurred by members holding firm and not having the maturity to admit they might be wrong. Then mud slinging and personal insult gets thrown in, people groan, then leave.

This is why the forum is thin on the ground.

It should be vibrant and full of debate; we have just had a great season. All to often, I find myself scrawling through tripe and only reading then replying to members who I know are adding something worth reading. This can't be right.

There must be new fans coming to the sport who are intellignet and insightful. We just don't seem to attract them anymore.

So, those of you who are thinking through your posts, I urge you to continue. Those of you who are not fans of the sport or just come here to add piffle because homework is getting you down, please think or go away.

I'm up for a mass forum cull right now.

*edited for spelling, grammar and obnoxiousness.

Hear, hear.

[BradSpeedMan]

dribbler, on 30 November 2011 - 09:22 AM, said:

Many of you are child like in your observations and comments, or too stubborn.

UP YOURS FOR THE LINE ABOVE!!!!!!!!



How's that for childish and stubborness!

[BradSpeedMan]

Insider, on 30 November 2011 - 09:34 AM, said:

Hear, hear.

I STILL NEED TO RESPOND TO U'RE FIRST POST IT'S JUST I'VE PRETTY HECTIC HERE AT WORK....soon

[yurp]

dribbler, on 30 November 2011 - 09:22 AM, said:

It should be vibrant and full of debate; we have just had a great season. All too often, I find myself scrawling through tripe and only reading then replying to members who I know are adding something worth reading. This can't be right.

*edited for spelling, grammar and obnoxiousness.

A for content, D for spelling and grammar, C+ for obnoxiousness.

Must try harder Steven.

...But I am curious as to which post above this is in relation to Steve. Or was this just a general outburst having read several threads - I know how it tends to build up.

I've been trying to take a leaf out of Andres' book recently and take myself less seriously whilst still maintaining my goal to make the occasionally interesting post.

[HandyNZL]

And so the hype returns as was seen about Michael...although I would imagine Kimi will actually be the better of his team mate over a season (though this will probably be more in part to the fact his team mate will be Grosjean or Senna, and not someone more capable like Rosberg).

Maybe I am being pessimistic here, but the Renault have not had a good car since Alonso won his two WDC's back in '05 and '06...that's five seasons ago.  I don't believe that Lotus, nee Poochie, have the wherewithal to produce a car to that degree again.  They were one of those teams that had their few years of stardom and then fade.  F1 is full of those sorts of teams.  Even if you take into account that Lotus, nee Renault, were nee Bennetton, their two seasons in the sun were in the mid '90's, almost (yikes) 20 years ago.

A driver alone can not make that much of a difference to the car's overall performance / position in the pecking order.  For example, for all of Alonso's talent, he hasn't managed to get that Ferrari consistently at the front (or sometimes even close to that), because the cars ultimate performance was short of Red Bull and McLaren.  Same can be said for Mercedes...two capable drivers, one considered the greatest ever, and neither can get the car past it's ultimate limit.  Sure, one race now and again, thanks to some tactics on the pitwall (again not the driver doing the deed, he's just following a plan), or a bit of attrition, or some rain / mixed weather.

And Kimi will fall exactly back into that position.  Sure the hype will be there at the start of the season.  But if that car is not capable of P6 of higher, then he will surely slide off the media's conscience, except for the "when will he quit" article that will be posted every other month.

So whilst it will be a great statistical record next year with six World Drivers Champs on the grid (14 titles amongst them), the reality is that he will be midfield P10 or worse.  Because F1 is all about the car.  Always has been, since day dot.  The drivers know that...they know they are but one employee in 600 (just so happens that they get the unfair majority of the fame and fortune, but this is more for the fact that they might get killed and they are relatively a rare species)...why did Senna switch to Williams? Because he just had his backside spanked in '93, and they had the best car.

All drivers want to be in the best car, so that they have the best chance at winning.

We all know that the black and gold car will not be the best next year.  So then, what is Kimi's reason for signing on?