164 replies to this topic

[ykickamoocow]

Ive found the video on Youtube. This has to be the WORSt decision the FIA have EVER made.

[cavallino]

spitfire, on Sep 10 2006, 01:17 PM, said:

CAV you offensive ignorant git, leave Christ out of this.

Shut up you retarded moron.

Autumnpuma, on Sep 10 2006, 01:20 PM, said:

This is just the sort of behaviour I'd have expected from the Monza stewards. Pathetic.

Monza stewards What Monza stewards? One steward is from Monza, one is from Venezuela and the head steward is the one who's always been there all season.

ecapdeville, on Sep 10 2006, 01:41 PM, said:

I cant believe that Fiarrari fans could be happy with this, its to sad...like puma said is pathetic... but be happy, you red fans should be proud.

I am positively delighted considering the atrocious decisions handed down to Michael at Monaco and Hungary, people were all calling for consistency and the same steward, when they get it they still complain. Where were you when your lovely FIARenault complained in the Nurburgring for exactly the same offence and Villeneuve received the same penalty?

[UrKo]

Player(1), on Sep 9 2006, 10:13 PM, said:

I've changed my mind in light of that video evidence and the always wise words of Pat Symonds

Excellent statement by Pat Symonds...     

[dribbler]

Player(1), on Sep 9 2006, 08:11 PM, said:

I've no doubt Massa backed off a bit to reinforce their claim. Clever way to force a foul on the other team, i'm sure most team's would think of it in time but few would actually do it.

Once again, your judgement is clouded by your apparent dislike of all things Ferrari. Why would Felipe have risked backing off? You are too hung up on conspiracy theory. The FIA decision was wrong, i agree but don't suggest that Felipe was the plotter.

Autumnpuma, on Sep 10 2006, 04:20 AM, said:

This is just the sort of behaviour I'd have expected from the Monza stewards. Pathetic.

Well, they're damned if they do and damned if they don't. I don't agree with it either.

ecapdeville, on Sep 10 2006, 04:41 AM, said:

I cant believe that Fiarrari fans could be happy with this, its to sad...like puma said is pathetic... but be happy, you red fans should be proud.

Does it help Michael? yes. Am i happy about it? no.

cavallino, on Sep 10 2006, 05:05 AM, said:

Shut up you retarded moron.

Cav, that's a stupid remark if i may say so. Some people can be extremely offended by the blasphemous nature of the use of the name Christ so be a little more diplomatic, and less retarded and moronic.


Back on topic, my view is that the penalty is too harsh. Even if Massa was impeded by Fernando at Parabolica (the only place where potentially he was affected) i agree with Symonds; sometimes this happens in qualifying. As it is, Fernando seemed far enough in front for there to have been any significant affect.

Most Ferrari fans are rubbing their hands, understandably. It doesn't mean that the decision was right but you can't blame them for their windfall. If i were as scepiticle as all the Renault fans though i could suggest that maybe Renault timed their run to deliberately hold up Felipe. I wouldn't do that though because that would be as stupid as some of the assertions being made about Ferrari and the FIA.

[Red Wings]

Alonso's luck is coming to an end and he is tasting his own medicine.  He followed Schu closely during the early part of Q3, got caught out and overshot into the chicane, thus ruining his qualifying tires.  I suspected that Alonso had mistaken Massa's red car as Schu's (A short distance behind Massa) and continued with his gamesmanship/revenge ..... which ultimately led to FIA's decision.

[UrKo]

ecapdeville, on Sep 10 2006, 05:41 AM, said:

I cant believe that Fiarrari fans could be happy with this, its to sad...like puma said is pathetic... but be happy, you red fans should be proud.

This only shows that Ferrari will do anything to win the title....and its fans dont know when to judge right from wrong.....

One more thing.....When SA had a puncture...there was a red flag.....why they didnt stop the Q when FA had a puncture????

He had to drive whole lap and the clock was ticking......

[Schumikonen]

spitfire, on Sep 9 2006, 11:17 PM, said:

The FIA will do whatever it takes to help nudge MS and Ferrari toward the championship.

Why would they do that?

I don't see any reason, and I am pretty sure that there is nothing true about this, I maybe wrong but I need a valid rason to believe something like this, and what makes me think this way is that people who think like that are still following F1, I would quit if I thing that FIA can be "supporting" a team like this.

[UrKo]

dribbler, on Sep 10 2006, 08:07 AM, said:

Once again, your judgement is clouded by your apparent dislike of all things Ferrari. Why would Felipe have risked backing off? You are too hung up on conspiracy theory. The FIA decision was wrong, i agree but don't suggest that Felipe was the plotter.

My guess is that JT was the main plotter with FM next to him.....       

[stopkidding]

I guess all I can say is that what goes around comes around. Fisichella blamed Villeneuve for blocking him at Nurburging. JV was heavily penalized, I guess after that precedent was set, all a driver has to do is blame the driver in front of him to cover up for his poor lap. Renault believed the poor SOB fisichella and protested. Now renault get a taste of their own medicine. Alonso's penalty wasn't fair, but in F1 these days fairness is not really an issue.....its a show, get on with it!

[dribbler]

UrKo, on Sep 10 2006, 07:08 AM, said:

....and its fans dont know when to judge right from wrong.....

One more thing.....When SA had a puncture...there was a red flag.....why they didnt stop the Q when FA had a puncture????

He had to drive whole lap and the clock was ticking......

Well i think the same could be said about non Ferrari fans, but anyway......

I think they were more concerned by the debris left by Yamamoto. I know that Fernando lost some bits but maybe it wasn't so dangerous....i don't know.

But no, come on let's suggest that it was another move to help Ferrari. That's far more exciting......

[UrKo]

Schumikonen, on Sep 10 2006, 08:08 AM, said:

Why would they do that?

I don't see any reason, and I am pretty sure that there is nothing true about this, I maybe wrong but I need a valid rason to believe something like this, and what makes me think this way is that people who think like that are still following F1, I would quit if I thing that FIA can be "supporting" a team like this.

Reason is that we like the this sport.....sad part is that FIA will never be impartial.

F1 should not run under FIA rules.....

dribbler, on Sep 10 2006, 08:13 AM, said:

Well i think the same could be said about non Ferrari fans, but anyway......

I think they were more concerned by the debris left by Yamamoto. I know that Fernando lost some bits but maybe it wasn't so dangerous....i don't know.

I guess you didnt see the debris flying off FA car after his tyre exploded???

dribbler, on Sep 10 2006, 08:13 AM, said:

But no, come on let's suggest that it was another move to help Ferrari. That's far more exciting......

Yet another move....how many they will have till end of the season????

[stopkidding]

spitfire, on Sep 9 2006, 08:17 PM, said:

Here is the bottom line. The FIA will do whatever it takes to help nudge MS and Ferrari toward the championship. Witness the "tire rule changes" a few years ago when Bridgestone shod Ferrari could not keep up.

Dude if anything FIA should be favouring Renault. All this talk about FIA favouring Ferrari is ridiculous. Flavio and Bernie are Business Partners, They co own the GP2 series and have had partnerships and joint ownerships of teams and companies before. So if anything Renault should be the favoured child of FIA not Ferrari!

[Red Wings]

stopkidding, on Sep 10 2006, 02:13 PM, said:

I guess all I can say is that what goes around comes around. Fisichella blamed Villeneuve for blocking him at Nurburging. JV was heavily penalized, I guess after that precedent was set, all a driver has to do is blame the driver in front of him to cover up for his poor lap. Renault believed the poor SOB fisichella and protested. Now renault get a taste of their own medicine. Alonso's penalty wasn't fair, but in F1 these days fairness is not really an issue.....its a show, get on with it!

These professional drivers have eyes like eagles.  They know every twist & turn made by the driver infront.  Any foul play displayed by a driver would be returned in full in the same race or the next.

Well, I guess that makes F1 entertaining after all these years!

Game on.  Yo, ho, ho, and a bottle of rum .. . .  ..

[Schumikonen]

UrKo, on Sep 10 2006, 02:08 AM, said:

This only shows that Ferrari will do anything to win the title....and its fans dont know when to judge right from wrong.....

One more thing.....When SA had a puncture...there was a red flag.....why they didnt stop the Q when FA had a puncture????

He had to drive whole lap and the clock was ticking......

So Ferrari is controling the race as I can see here, Jean Todd called the race director and told him " don't get the red flag out, let him get out of time, then they told Massa "wait until FA gets out the pits, go behind him and lets acuse him of blocking" this is really a Soft Opera, you can really believe everything just to justify that you are loosing ground, I know that Alonso didn't have any other choice than doing that, and all of you have to know that Massa was on a flying lap and FA on his out lap, and yes he had to yield in this conditions but he didn't because he had no choice, he did his best, but race stewards did their job too.

What I haven't found is any place talking about ferrari complaining, all I have found about this is that stewards did this by themselves, so ferrari had nothing to do with it, once again I can be wrong but...

Edited by Schumikonen, 10 September 2006 - 07:27 AM.

[dribbler]

UrKo, on Sep 10 2006, 07:10 AM, said:

My guess is that JT was the main plotter with FM next to him.....       

Yeah, a 'guess'. Tell me how that would have worked then?....


I 'guess' that Fernando p**ses in Shell's tanks overnight.
I 'guess' that Pat symonds is paying someone at Bridgestone to using chewing gum in the compounds.
I 'guess' that Bob Bell can electronically adjust Fernando's car using his mind alone.
I 'guess' that Flavio has nitrous oxide infused aftershave which he secretly pours into Fernando's fuel tank.
I 'guess' that Fisichella hypnotised Michael at a party to make him go crazy when he sees Renault blue.

It's true, all of it......i guess.

[Schumikonen]

dribbler, on Sep 10 2006, 02:21 AM, said:

Yeah, a 'guess'. Tell me how that would have worked then?....
I 'guess' that Fernando p**ses in Shell's tanks overnight.
I 'guess' that Pat symonds is paying someone at Bridgestone to using chewing gum in the compounds.
I 'guess' that Bob Bell can electronically adjust Fernando's car using his mind alone.
I 'guess' that Flavio has nitrous oxide infused aftershave which he secretly pours into Fernando's fuel tank.
I 'guess' that Fisichella hypnotised Michael at a party to make him go crazy when he sees Renault blue.

It's true, all of it......i guess.

Indeed

[Red Wings]

If Jean Todt were such a good plotter, he needed not chew his fingers off every other weekend of the race calander.  
Any race team manager that's able to stage manage an intentional outcome to his advantage at the dying moments of a qualifying session, should have moved on to Broadway or Hollywood.

[UrKo]

Red Wings, on Sep 10 2006, 08:33 AM, said:

If Jean Todt were such a good plotter, he needed not chew his fingers off every other weekend of the race calander.

Tell who else is complaining all the time within Ferrari?
Who always complain and is against anything that other teams offer??
Who demanded extra $ 25MIO ( not sure if this is the right # but it's close) for this season???
And i could go on and on, but as it's only 8.30am i dont feel like.


I was just thinking how great F1 was in the 90' (dont remember the 80 as i was to young) where we didnt see such a bulls##t going on all the time and the only manufacturer team  was FIArrari...batteling for points only.

Read the statement of Pat again and you'll see what i was thinking.

We need F1 without ppl like JT and teams like Ferrari who will do anything to win...I can easily say if MS wins the title he'll NOT BE the worthy champion.

Show your skills on the track and not off track ( behind the pits with JT & Co. ).

Edited by UrKo, 10 September 2006 - 06:42 AM.

[dribbler]

Red Wings, on Sep 10 2006, 07:33 AM, said:

If Jean Todt were such a good plotter, he needed not chew his fingers off every other weekend of the race calander.  
Any race team manager that's able to stage manage an intentional outcome to his advantage at the dying moments of a qualifying session, should have moved on to Broadway or Hollywood.

(Said in very masculine scary voice)

"This Winter..... Jean Todt.....is....HARRY PLOTTER"

[Schumikonen]

UrKo, on Sep 10 2006, 02:40 AM, said:

Tell who else is complaining all the time within Ferrari?
Who always complain and is against anything that other teams offer??
Who demanded extra $ 25MIO ( not sure if this is the right # but it's close) for this season???
And i could go on and on, but as it's only 8.30am i dont feel like.
I was just thinking how great F1 was in the 90' (dont remember the 80 as i was to young) where we didnt see such a bulls##t going on all the time and the only manufacturer team  was FIArrari...batteling for points only.

Read the statement of Pat again and you'll see what i was thinking.

We need F1 without ppl like JT and teams like Ferrari who will do anything to win...I can easily say if MS wins the title he'll NOT BE the worthy champion.

Show your skills on the track and not off track ( behind the pits with JT & Co. ).

I don't know thee answer of all your question but I know that the second one is Flavio Briatore. Am I right?

[UrKo]

Schumikonen, on Sep 10 2006, 08:49 AM, said:

I don't know thee answer of all your question but I know that the second one is Flavio Briatore. Am I right?

He's second in a row, but sill far far behind of almighty JT!!!!

He's just 1 small drop compared to the ocean.  

[Ctrl300]

Horrible decision and a disgrace for the sport. Very sad

I am embarrased on Ferrari's behalf for even lodging the complaint.

[Schumikonen]

Ctrl300, on Sep 10 2006, 03:20 AM, said:

Horrible decision and a disgrace for the sport. Very sad

I am embarrased on Ferrari's behalf for even lodging the complaint.

I think that you are complaining to much, this is like football, player are always complaining trying to get a punishment for the other team and that a very popular sport in the whole world, Alonso made a mistake beacuse he was coming out the pits and Massa was on a flying lap and he didn't yield like he should do. Alonso would complain the same way in a situation like this, like he did a few weeks ago when MS overtook him in a red flag is all the same, and is all part of the game, or in this case part of the race.

Edited by Schumikonen, 10 September 2006 - 07:38 AM.

[cavallino]

dribbler, on Sep 10 2006, 04:07 PM, said:

Cav, that's a stupid remark if i may say so. Some people can be extremely offended by the blasphemous nature of the use of the name Christ so be a little more diplomatic, and less retarded and moronic.

Oh really? Am I the first to use it as an exclamation? Could that moron fool have put it more politely? Why should I respect someone's beliefs if they don't respect me? Blasphemous my a##. Sue me.

It's hilarious to read Pat Symonds after what they did with Fisi at the Ring, and the stunt Alonso pulled in Hungary to get Michael penalised.

[Schumikonen]

cavallino, on Sep 10 2006, 03:39 AM, said:

Oh really? Am I the first to use it as an exclamation? Could that moron fool have put it more politely? Why should I respect someone's beliefs if they don't respect me? Blasphemous my a##. Sue me.

It's hilarious to read Pat Symonds after what they did with Fisi at the Ring, and the stunt Alonso pulled in Hungary to get Michael penalised.

If you look at your post, you didn't use comma or anything to separate what you were say from the exclamation, I do that usually, I know that you were using an exclamation but the missing comma is the cause of dribbler's comments, looks like you are talking to Christ.

Edited by Schumikonen, 10 September 2006 - 08:24 AM.

[Sato]

cavallino, on Sep 10 2006, 03:55 AM, said:

Are you ****ing retarded? Please find a track map, see where the 3rd sector at Monza starts, and then come back, then you can explain to me why Massa was 3 tenths slower on his last sector than a time he set earlier in the session.

If he was getting screwed in parabolica, that means he GAINED a slipstrem down the last 2 straights aswell....

[UrKo]

Schumikonen, on Sep 10 2006, 09:37 AM, said:

I think that you are complaining to much, this is like football, player are always complaining trying to get a punishment for the other team and that a very popular sport in the whole world, Alonso made a mistake beacuse he was coming out the pits and Massa was on a flying lap and he didn't yield like he should do. Alonso would complain the same way in a situation like this, like he did a few weeks ago when MS overtook him in a red flag is all the same, and is all part of the game, or in this case part of the race.

First of all...Alonso didnt made any mistakes!!! He was racing with the time left to get 1 more fast lap!!!!

Also......MS has overtook 2 cars in Hungary under red flag.....He should know to slow down and he didnt.
It's a rule to slow down immediately after the red flag....MS didnt....his fault!!!

This penalty is simply FIArrari kitchen to get close to Alonso and win the title as MS will retire end of the season!!!

      with FIArrari.

F1 would be a better place without them

[Schumikonen]

UrKo, on Sep 10 2006, 05:25 AM, said:

First of all...Alonso didnt made any mistakes!!! He was racing with the time left to get 1 more fast lap!!!!

He did, it's a mistake stay in front of a driver that is in his flying lap when you are in your out lap, that's is a rule and if you don't obey this rule you get penalized.

Edited by Schumikonen, 10 September 2006 - 09:29 AM.

[UrKo]

Schumikonen, on Sep 10 2006, 11:28 AM, said:

He did, it's a mistake stay in front of a driver that is in his flying lap when you are in your out lap, that's is a rule and if you don't obey this rule you get penalized.

If you didnt see, he was racing with the time to get 1 final lap....and FIA should acknowledge that!

And also from the tape you probably seen it, it is obvious that Massa was far back and FA was not in the way until the parabolica turn where he was much closer to Massa.

So FIArrari are playing its dirty game again ( thi time in their home territory) so they could win the race, and get close to FA, as MS alone is not capable any more..by that i dont mean he's not fast enough, it's simply that there's only 4gp's left and 12pts margin is hard to catch!

[Schumikonen]

Fernando Alonso and his Renault team have reacted with fury to stewards' decision to penalise the Spanish driver for blocking.

Alonso, 25, must start Sunday's Italian grand prix from just tenth on the grid after it was ruled that, on an out lap late in the qualifying session, he 'impeded' Ferrari driver Felipe Massa.

''This decision is surprising and wrong,'' Renault's Pat Symonds fumed.



Indeed, after reviewing the on-board footage from Massa's car, some observers in the media centre were left wondering if they had been shown the right lap.

The only notable incident during the lap was a 'lift' or 'wobble' on the throttle in Parabolica, as Alonso's Renault loomed about 100 metres ahead.
Symonds told La Gazzetta dello Sport: ''To say it is a strange decision is to say very little.''

When asked if he thought stewards at Monza had sided with Ferrari, as the championship entered its final phase, the Briton said: ''That is up to you -- you are the journalists. You judge. I'm only an engineer.''

Alonso pedalled a similar line, commenting only that 'when Ferrari protests, you can never be calm'.

He told the Spanish press: ''What happened yesterday happened a hundred times already this year, also in the races.

''It is typical Ferrari. They try to take advantage of the smallest opportunities to try to get us.''

Renault's engine chief Denis Chevrier also marvelled at the stewards' 'incredible' call.

''It seems they are trying to help Ferrari,'' he told 'AS' newspaper.


Can you see that when Massa and FA were driving through the Parabolica Massa was 100 meters behind Alonso that means that Massa was bringing the gap down a that point because  that distance can be cover in just a little more than a second and at hte beggining of that lap alonso was 2+ seconds ahead, so you can cry all that you want but the truth is that Massa could had done a better time without Alonso in front in that lap.