52 replies to this topic

[kubica]

you think im crazy but i think im right. The BMW underachieves compared to the Maclaren.THIS IS WHY hamilton is so great. But Kubica has made such great progress advancing from averageing 7th - 11th last season to nearly 4th or 5th everytime.

[newredsuit]

kubica, on May 22 2007, 07:10 PM, said:

you think im crazy but i think im right. The BMW underachieves compared to the Maclaren.THIS IS WHY hamilton is so great. But Kubica has made such great progress advancing from averageing 7th - 11th last season to nearly 4th or 5th everytime.

I agree, most ppl wont though.

I think Kubica is a better driver than most ppl think and he has shown that he has the patience and know-how to help develop a good car. I  expect to see him on the podium again, sooner rather than later.

He is my roughie for future WDC.

[kubica]

he will have won the World Championship within the next 5 years. if he doesnt ill eat my hat.

[Shooting Star]

For me Kubica is the better driver.

Kubica never seemed like a rookie to me. He drives supremely well and looks well in control of whatever situation he is in. He is for sure a safer bet than Lewis if they both had the same car.

A combination of tyres, new drivers not adapting to their teams as well, the crappy points system and other related factors have all aided Hamilton's wonder start to his career.

Edited by Shooting Star, 22 May 2007 - 09:39 AM.

[kubica]

dont get me wrong i wish hamilton all success as i do every driver (except Massa) they are all wonderful ppl (except massa) I dont like Massa because he threatened to crash into hamilton if he overtook him on the the first corner of bahrain

[Moose11]

I'd say no.  I'd take Hamilton, but of course who knows how each guy will develop and Kubica could very well become the main man between the two down the line.  But right now, I take Hamilton.

[Jez]

I'm more for Hamilton to. I think he has been a little more impressive against his team mate than Kubica has this season.

[jemstride]

kubica, on May 22 2007, 10:10 AM, said:

you think im crazy but i think im right. The BMW underachieves compared to the Maclaren.THIS IS WHY hamilton is so great. But Kubica has made such great progress advancing from averageing 7th - 11th last season to nearly 4th or 5th everytime.

yes he's good considering his lack of experience but he's still getting beaten by Heidfeld.

I think Hamilton looks more promising. Yes he's driving the mclaren which makes it easier, but he has been the most consistent of the top 4 drivers (competing against drivers who have fought for championships for the last few years), its difficult to say and you'd have to pair them in the same team really to judge properly, but right now I cant see any reason why Kubica should be seen as better than Hamilton

[pabloh20]

kubica, on May 22 2007, 10:10 AM, said:

you think im crazy but i think im right. The BMW underachieves compared to the Maclaren.THIS IS WHY hamilton is so great. But Kubica has made such great progress advancing from averageing 7th - 11th last season to nearly 4th or 5th everytime.

Oh, I completely agree................I do think you're crazy!  

I am curious though - Kubica has had a DNF, 18th, 6th & 4th, so how does that equate to 4th or 5th everytime?  And wouldn't it be a bit to hard to make such a call after he has only finished 3 races so far?  I am not saying he's not a good driver, but your reasoning to reach such a conclusion seems a little baffling.

Lewis is doing well because he is in the McLaren, but that's not the whole story - he is, at the present time, doing better against his team mate than Kubica is doing against his team mate and Lewis has had less races than Kubica.  Many people would consider Alonso a more challenging team mate than Heidfeld and I do myself, but I guess that's up to individuals to decide, though.

[shampion]

pabloh20, on May 22 2007, 07:00 AM, said:

Oh, I completely agree................I do think you're crazy!  

.......................Lewis is doing well because he is in the McLaren, but that's not the whole story - he is, at the present time, doing better against his team mate than Kubica is doing against his team mate and Lewis has had less races than Kubica.  Many people would consider Alonso a more challenging team mate than Heidfeld and I do myself, but I guess that's up to individuals to decide, though.

Exactly!

[Max Mosley]

For me, the two of them are the most exciting drivers in F1 right now.

With Schumi gone, no one in the sport is that invincible any more.  His heirs just aren't as talented or dedicated, although Fernando is the closest until now.  Therefore the time is ripe for a new genius to emerge and the two you mention are great candidates.  Kubica has been very unlucky so far and I expect him to be pretty close to Nick by the end of the season.  Given that Nick is no slouch, that's incredibly impressive - in fact I think Nick will be "Kimi-ed" again!  However, imho Alonso is much better than Heidfeld, and given their relative performances I would say Hamilton just edges Kubica at this stage.  By the start of next season I reckon the top 6 drivers will be Hamilton, Kubica, Alonso, Kimi, in some order that I can't predict atm (though the above is my best guess) with Massa and Button just behind.  I think it's a very exciting time in F1.

(Brave thread btw)

[pabloh20]

Murray Walker, on May 22 2007, 11:51 AM, said:

For me, the two of them are the most exciting drivers in F1 right now.

With Schumi gone, no one in the sport is that invincible any more.  His heirs just aren't as talented or dedicated, although Fernando is the closest until now.  Therefore the time is ripe for a new genius to emerge and the two you mention are great candidates.  Kubica has been very unlucky so far and I expect him to be pretty close to Nick by the end of the season.  Given that Nick is no slouch, that's incredibly impressive - in fact I think Nick will be "Kimi-ed" again!  However, imho Alonso is much better than Heidfeld, and given their relative performances I would say Hamilton just edges Kubica at this stage.  By the start of next season I reckon the top 6 drivers will be Hamilton, Kubica, Alonso, Kimi, in some order that I can't predict atm (though the above is my best guess) with Massa and Button just behind.  I think it's a very exciting time in F1.

(Brave thread btw)

Brave reply, by the way - I think you may incur the wrath several sets of fans!!  

Yep, I agree they are 2 prospects for sure, but I think the bold bit is the most important, as you say, Muzza.

[Max Mosley]

pabloh20, on May 22 2007, 12:10 PM, said:

Brave reply, by the way - I think you may incur the wrath several sets of fans!!  

You know me - that's what I'm hoping!  In the immortal words of Inspector Grim, there'll be no mamsy-pamsy, hoity-toity, airy-fairy, up-your-uncle-and-down-your-aunty, fannying about on TF1 if I can do anything about it.

pabloh20, on May 22 2007, 12:10 PM, said:

Yep, I agree they are 2 prospects for sure, but I think the bold bit is the most important, as you say, Muzza.

Yep!

[Quiet One]

pabloh20, on May 22 2007, 08:10 AM, said:

Brave reply, by the way - I think you may incur the wrath several sets of fans!!  

Yep, I agree they are 2 prospects for sure, but I think the bold bit is the most important, as you say, Muzza.

Short version: Kubica is not better than Hamilton.

Long version: to really appreciate a driver you need to watch him for more than a few races. I am gonna use Alonso as an example (btw, kubica, you should know I am an Alonso fan ): He was the best since Schumi so far. Now he is facing a crisis for the first time iin his always ascending career. His teammate is giving him a good challenge, the McLaren isn't a winning monster like the Renaults in 2005 and 2006 (yes, they weren't bulletproof, but he obviously felt much more at easy driving those) and he is no more the new golden promise, but the old guy to beat! Now we find that Nando has something he might have hinted but never really showed before: he is cracking under the pressure. If he copes with that, I think he can kick anybody's a## out there on track. If he doesn't...well
Hammy has shown he is great: cool, fast, reliable, consistent. How can we know if he will perform the same if the McLarens start to fail specatcularly, or if Alonso starts outperforming him seriously, or if...etc.? Same goes for Kubica. Don't get me wrong, I really hope that Kubica becomes as great as he promises. He has shown too he is a great driver. I just don't think that dogmatic conclussions about drivers say too much after just a few races.

Oh, and welcome to the forums

[pabloh20]

Murray Walker, on May 22 2007, 12:34 PM, said:

You know me - that's what I'm hoping!  In the immortal words of Inspector Grim, there'll be no mamsy-pamsy, hoity-toity, airy-fairy, up-your-uncle-and-down-your-aunty, fannying about on TF1 if I can do anything about it.

  

Quiet One, on May 22 2007, 12:51 PM, said:

Short version: Kubica is not better than Hamilton.

Long version: to really appreciate a driver you need to watch him for more than a few races. I am gonna use Alonso as an example (btw, kubica, you should know I am an Alonso fan ): He was the best since Schumi so far. Now he is facing a crisis for the first time iin his always ascending career. His teammate is giving him a good challenge, the McLaren isn't a winning monster like the Renaults in 2005 and 2006 (yes, they weren't bulletproof, but he obviously felt much more at easy driving those) and he is no more the new golden promise, but the old guy to beat! Now we find that Nando has something he might have hinted but never really showed before: he is cracking under the pressure. If he copes with that, I think he can kick anybody's a## out there on track. If he doesn't...well
Hammy has shown he is great: cool, fast, reliable, consistent. How can we know if he will perform the same if the McLarens start to fail specatcularly, or if Alonso starts outperforming him seriously, or if...etc.? Same goes for Kubica. Don't get me wrong, I really hope that Kubica becomes as great as he promises. He has shown too he is a great driver. I just don't think that dogmatic conclussions about drivers say too much after just a few races.

Oh, and welcome to the forums

It's true, but how fickle is this sport??  

[cavallino]

Kubeetza's damn good, but it is hard to compare him with Lewis right now. Going by available evidence, Lewis is a bit better, but that's a call I wouldn't want to make unless I have to. Too early.

[Quiet One]

cavallino, on May 22 2007, 12:18 PM, said:

Kubeetza's damn good, but it is hard to compare him with Lewis right now. Going by available evidence, Lewis is a bit better, but that's a call I wouldn't want to make unless I have to. Too early.

That was what I was trying to say, if I had any skills to write short posts!

[dribbler]

Shooting Star, on May 22 2007, 10:38 AM, said:

For me Kubica is the better driver.

Kubica never seemed like a rookie to me. He drives supremely well and looks well in control of whatever situation he is in. He is for sure a safer bet than Lewis if they both had the same car.

A combination of tyres, new drivers not adapting to their teams as well, the crappy points system and other related factors have all aided Hamilton's wonder start to his career.

I totally disagree. Kubica is world class, for sure but how is he clearly better than Hamilton? Put their performance into perspective; Kubica has had last year and the winter to acclimatize himself to the car. His team mate is very good but not a world champion. I have seen nothing in Kubica's performance this year that has made me sit bolt upright and think 'wow'.

We know that the Mclaren is better than the BMW but i'm not going to use the points situation to argue why Hamilton is better anyway. He has demonstrated supreme intelligence at the start of every race he has done by pulling off some great moves. He has not been forced into mistakes whilst under pressure and has infact made other drivers look a bit ragged. He's doing all this at the front of the field where all eyes are in him. This and the fact that he is now putting his team mate under comprehensive pressure mean that for me, he is the real deal, no question.

Remember when the jury was out over the winter about Heidfeld vs Kubica? For me, it's still unanswered. Robert is brilliant and will surpass his team mate in time but Hamilton is doing that already.

[Shooting Star]

dribbler, on May 22 2007, 10:07 PM, said:

I totally disagree. Kubica is world class, for sure but how is he clearly better than Hamilton? Put their performance into perspective; Kubica has had last year and the winter to acclimatize himself to the car. His team mate is very good but not a world champion. I have seen nothing in Kubica's performance this year that has made me sit bolt upright and think 'wow'.

We know that the Mclaren is better than the BMW but i'm not going to use the points situation to argue why Hamilton is better anyway. He has demonstrated supreme intelligence at the start of every race he has done by pulling off some great moves. He has not been forced into mistakes whilst under pressure and has infact made other drivers look a bit ragged. He's doing all this at the front of the field where all eyes are in him. This and the fact that he is now putting his team mate under comprehensive pressure mean that for me, he is the real deal, no question.

Remember when the jury was out over the winter about Heidfeld vs Kubica? For me, it's still unanswered. Robert is brilliant and will surpass his team mate in time but Hamilton is doing that already.

Well thats the thing. Hamilton is surpassing a clearly superior team mate. How long before the bubble bursts? Theres more to it than pure brilliance. Alonso is coming from a team that is completely different to the way McLaren works. He has had to change his driving style. Lewis on the other hand didn't have to un-learn anything. Kubica has around for longer and unless Lewis keeps this form up all season, you can't call a young hotshot with 4 races under his belt a greater driver.

The thing is, Robert can only get better. We know what he is capable of. In Hamilton's case, he is living a dream. The worse moments are yet to come.

[kubica]

Murray Walker, on May 22 2007, 12:34 PM, said:

You know me - that's what I'm hoping! In the immortal words of Inspector Grim, there'll be no mamsy-pamsy, hoity-toity, airy-fairy, up-your-uncle-and-down-your-aunty, fannying about on TF1 if I can do anything about it.


Yep!

im not a kubica fan its just the first name i thought of. i like everyone (except massa). i just see through the hype of hamilton (im not saying hes rubbish so dont send me hate mail!!!) and have noticed how well he has fought back after a godawful start 2 the season.

[dribbler]

Shooting Star, on May 22 2007, 06:01 PM, said:

Well thats the thing. Hamilton is surpassing a clearly superior team mate. How long before the bubble bursts? Theres more to it than pure brilliance. Alonso is coming from a team that is completely different to the way McLaren works. He has had to change his driving style. Lewis on the other hand didn't have to un-learn anything. Kubica has around for longer and unless Lewis keeps this form up all season, you can't call a young hotshot with 4 races under his belt a greater driver.

The thing is, Robert can only get better. We know what he is capable of. In Hamilton's case, he is living a dream. The worse moments are yet to come.

I disagree again. Lewis has been under Ron's wing for a long time, for sure, but he hasn't had more time in the F1 operation than Fernando. This means they are on a level playing field. Given Fernando's considerable extra experience (not just in driver roles but in testing ones too) he should have the measure of Lewis, but he hasn't.


I don't think that the 'bubble' that you speak of is going to burst because it doesn't exist. Lewis may encounter multiple mechanical failures and have consecutive crashes or incidents but he isn't going to forget how to drive intelligently or fast.

[Jean Todt]

dribbler, on May 22 2007, 05:18 PM, said:

I disagree again. Lewis has been under Ron's wing for a long time, for sure, but he hasn't had more time in the F1 operation than Fernando. This means they are on a level playing field. Given Fernando's considerable extra experience (not just in driver roles but in testing ones too) he should have the measure of Lewis, but he hasn't.
I don't think that the 'bubble' that you speak of is going to burst because it doesn't exist. Lewis may encounter multiple mechanical failures and have consecutive crashes or incidents but he isn't going to forget how to drive intelligently or fast.

     
I couldnt have said it better!

[Jean Todt]

Shooting Star, on May 22 2007, 05:01 PM, said:

Well thats the thing. Hamilton is surpassing a clearly superior team mate. How long before the bubble bursts? Theres more to it than pure brilliance. Alonso is coming from a team that is completely different to the way McLaren works. He has had to change his driving style. Lewis on the other hand didn't have to un-learn anything. Kubica has around for longer and unless Lewis keeps this form up all season, you can't call a young hotshot with 4 races under his belt a greater driver.

The thing is, Robert can only get better. We know what he is capable of. In Hamilton's case, he is living a dream. The worse moments are yet to come.

everyone says he is living a dream, no one really cares what a nightmare he along with his family had to go through to get the attention of Ron.

[Max Mosley]

Hamilton is the dog's bollocks.  I don't care what anyone says, when they're older they'll understand. End of.  No?

kubica, on May 22 2007, 06:04 PM, said:

im not a kubica fan its just the first name i thought of. i like everyone (except massa). i just see through the hype of hamilton (im not saying hes rubbish so dont send me hate mail!!!) and have noticed how well he has fought back after a godawful start 2 the season.

Yeah I think your thread was a very good, thought-provoking one, though I personally think Hamilton probably just edges it at the moment.

Edited by Murray Walker, 22 May 2007 - 06:57 PM.

[Autumnpuma]

"Kubica Better Than Hamilton???"

No.

[kubica]

the two best drivers are ham and kub. not now but they have the raw talent. in years to come expect to c epic battles the likes of damon hill + schummi, alonso + schummi, um um um, yeah

[kubica]

the two best drivers are ham and kub. not now but they have the raw talent. in years to come expect to c epic battles the likes of damon hill + schummi, alonso + schummi, um um um, yeah

[elgo]

I think Hamilton is showing all he has and Kubica isn't.I remember him in the World Series and he was very good.
I thought he was going to outshine Heidfeld,and I am still confident that he'll improve,I suppose it's a matter of time.
I couldn't say that one is better than the other...I have seen Hamilton in 4 races (couldn't see GP2 last season,the hours) and Kubica in a few more,but...

[spitfire]

Sausage boy better that King Midas?? Really??  Thats the second funniest thing I have read in the last decade!      

[elgo]

tell us about the first one,please,please,please,cmon,we want to know it,please,please,please...