AleHop

Bourdais 25 S. Penalty

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Would have Massa finished ahead of Vettel if Bourdais hadn't hit him?

I couldn't see the incident very well, I am jus asking to know it.

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Looking at how they finished, yes, for sure, assuming that Vettel didn't defend really really well. That point might just decide the championship now XD

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Deserved. I just think they should have given the penalty while the race was still going on.

This extra point will only make a difference if both drivers **** up like today and fall to the middle of the grid again in one of the next races. Mathematically, Massa still needs two wins, one of them being a Ferrari 1-2, while Hamilton still needs two 2nd places.

Edited by Ayrton Senna

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The video: [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dKvZE0iuU8"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dKvZE0iuU8[/url]

Edit: some people have too much free time: [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2u93VT7m2s"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2u93VT7m2s[/url] :lol: Edited by elgo

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Anyone that thinks Bourdais should have been penalised is an idiot, yet again the stewards aid Ferrari. This penalty craze is getting silly now. Perhaps some people can now see what was started in Spa.

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Anyone that thinks Bourdais should have been penalised is an idiot, yet again the stewards aid Ferrari. This penalty craze is getting silly now. Perhaps some people can now see what was started in Spa.

I think it was a racing incident, but I do think that probably Bourdais was to blame, because he's the one getting out of the boxes. I'm not saying it's easy to see Massa coming, but I think Massa was too focused on going faster and faster so he didn't see Bourdais either. Ok, I got lost, whose fault is it again? xD

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Sebastian Bourdais said "I don't know why, I don't know what I've done. I don't think I have done anything wrong. I don't know what I was supposed to do basically, I could have unrolled the red carpet and given him the corner. That is the only thing I could have done."

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I think it's deserved, at least applying FIA's rules.

Anyway, I don't think the Championship will be decided by a point. :eusa_think:

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Sebastian Bourdais said "I don't know why, I don't know what I've done. I don't think I have done anything wrong. I don't know what I was supposed to do basically, I could have unrolled the red carpet and given him the corner. That is the only thing I could have done."

I have a big issue with this - the only angle that would be useful is onboard. But Bourdais just took the corner and didnt go wide or hit him. If anything Massa was to blame - but what really annoys me is the penalties are so woefully inconsistent here.

Take the penalty for Massa hitting Hamilton off the track - he got a drive through once the field had spread out massively. Hamilton got spun to last place - so Massa gained an advantage by spinning him out - and the punishment being so late meant the impact was less severe for Massa (allowing him to get the points).

Whether or not Hamilton out braking himself was worthy of a penalty I dont know - I mean what did he get penalised for? This happens all the time - but you know fair enough.

I just think that its so woefully inconsistent. Hamilton cuts a chicane and loses a net 8 points to Massa - Massa hits Hamilton out of the race and gains 2 points on Hamilton. Bourdais takes the corner and gets a 25 second penalty for taking the corner. I'm all for having penalties when people do things wrong - but there is a clear issue with the punishment fitting the crime. I think we've seen some massive inconsistency personally.

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Massa's touch on Hamilton was also a racing incident. If they gave him a DT for that, they had to punish Bourdais for this, otherwise they would make no sense. It was the same thing.

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I think it's deserved, at least applying FIA's rules.

Anyway, I don't think the Championship will be decided by a point. :eusa_think:

WTF how the hell can you see this penalty as just!!! How can any F1 fan be happy with these dumb credibility sapping decisions and it's irrelevant what margin the championship is decided by

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No-one has bothered mentioning Massa driving clear off the track to pass Weber. What was it people on this forum were saying a few races ago about racing between the lines? While I don't think the Massa / Weber overtake worthy of any sanction maybe some people here could show some consistency.

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Why on earth did bourdais get a penalty for massa driving like a crack addict?

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WTF how the hell can you see this penalty as just!!! How can any F1 fan be happy with these dumb credibility sapping decisions and it's irrelevant what margin the championship is decided by

Relax!

Explain why Kubica got a penalty in Fuji 2007 and I'll answer that.

I you don't know, don't care, don't... Then I don't either.

Breathe!

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Massa did what Massa does, just like Hamilton. Fun to see the lewisterics going off on Massa when they applauded him for the very same thing in the past (against other drivers).

Anyway, I'm curious, was there a yellow flag when Hamilton passed Massa and they touched?

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Anyway, I'm curious, was there a yellow flag when Hamilton passed Massa and they touched?

Yes, there was. But I think only on stint 1.

Edited by Ayrton Senna

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Massa did what Massa does, just like Hamilton. Fun to see the lewisterics going off on Massa when they applauded him for the very same thing in the past (against other drivers).

Anyway, I'm curious, was there a yellow flag when Hamilton passed Massa and they touched?

No yellow flag there - was at turns 1 and 2 - think the overtake was around turn 10 area?

Coulthards car went off between 1 and 2 I think.

Still Massa did hit Hamilton and take him out - that penalty was correct especially if he bounces off the track like that.

Going down the pit opening to overtake Webber would be a joke of a penalty, then again had it been Hamilton I guess the FIA code on dangerous driving and driving along with pit exit would be invoked at a penalty given.

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Massa/Hamiliton Racing incident. FM Did not cut the chicane, He had his right wheels on the track. It was nice to see FM hit back.

Massa/ Bourdais Racing incident FM's error IMO, but still racing

Hamilton at the start Driver error, but racing incident.

Massa /Webber. Webber shoud have got a penalty for dangerous driving. He moved left to protect the outside, FM went up the inside, and then Weber just kept moving right forcing FM into the pit lane. That is the kind of stuff the stewards should be looking at. Total disreguard for safety IMO

The stewards have decided they must be involved in every race, and this is what we get.

Again they are consistently bad, and now they are just consistent in deciding outcomes as well. I wish they would put the whistle in their pocket, and let the guys race. Anytime anyone gets touched, it is under review.

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@Halfie

Oh yeah. Massa was allowed to get away with it in the past and now... well, Hamilton got screwed.

Following your line of thought, bloody FIA for putting banana peals at the end of the straight so that Hamilton would miss the turn. It was a total setup. Gotta miss the crane days.

Which remains me, which McLaren did hit Kimi on that 1st turn?

Edited by maure

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Anyone that thinks Bourdais should have been penalised is an idiot, yet again the stewards aid Ferrari.

Yup.

I have a big issue with this - the only angle that would be useful is onboard. But Bourdais just took the corner and didnt go wide or hit him. If anything Massa was to blame - but what really annoys me is the penalties are so woefully inconsistent here.

Take the penalty for Massa hitting Hamilton off the track - he got a drive through once the field had spread out massively. Hamilton got spun to last place - so Massa gained an advantage by spinning him out - and the punishment being so late meant the impact was less severe for Massa (allowing him to get the points).

Whether or not Hamilton out braking himself was worthy of a penalty I dont know - I mean what did he get penalised for? This happens all the time - but you know fair enough.

I just think that its so woefully inconsistent. Hamilton cuts a chicane and loses a net 8 points to Massa - Massa hits Hamilton out of the race and gains 2 points on Hamilton. Bourdais takes the corner and gets a 25 second penalty for taking the corner. I'm all for having penalties when people do things wrong - but there is a clear issue with the punishment fitting the crime. I think we've seen some massive inconsistency personally.

I agree with all that. And all the inconsistency favours Ferrari, it seems to me.

Massa's touch on Hamilton was also a racing incident. If they gave him a DT for that, they had to punish Bourdais for this, otherwise they would make no sense. It was the same thing.

Massa was completely off the tarmac when he hit Lewis and had no hope of legitimately overtaking Lewis again. I think that incident was a clear cut penalty - but then I probably would say that!

No-one has bothered mentioning Massa driving clear off the track to pass Weber. What was it people on this forum were saying a few races ago about racing between the lines? While I don't think the Massa / Weber overtake worthy of any sanction maybe some people here could show some consistency.

Yup.

Massa/Hamiliton Racing incident. FM Did not cut the chicane, He had his right wheels on the track. It was nice to see FM hit back.

His right wheels were well on the kerbs, and off the track, and he was accelerating straight at Lewis. He probably hit him deliberately.

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Massa was completely off the tarmac when he hit Lewis and had no hope of legitimately overtaking Lewis again. I think that incident was a clear cut penalty - but then I probably would say that!

If Massa wasn't off the track, Hamilton would have hit him and both of them would be out. I'm not saying Massa wasn't at fault there, I just think Bourdais is just as culpable. In both cases the driver was overtaken and refused to brake and give the position.

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If Massa wasn't off the track, Hamilton would have hit him and both of them would be out. I'm not saying Massa wasn't at fault there, I just think Bourdais is just as culpable. In both cases the driver was overtaken and refused to brake and give the position.

You mean Hamilton and not Bourdais?

I am with you on this. Massa seemed to have gone off-track to try to avoid being hit by Hamilton who was closing up. In fact, I remember reading that Hamilton claims to have given him "plenty of room" which indicates that he knew the situation was iffy. In any case, Massa's antics are nothing new and the lewisterics would have more credibility if they had denounced Massa for doing similarly last year, for instance. At that time, however, they cheered his questionable ways and now, well, they are out of luck.

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