Today In F1

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Speaking of Kimi, a banner at the Korean GP;

I was just thinking of posting this!!! LOL!!!!!

I mean...REALLY!!!!!

[BradSpeedMan 6]

actually the next banner is also "telling" in their view

[BradSpeedMan 6]

"But all the evidence from Alonso’s career shows that the one thing he cannot cope with is being beaten in qualifying or a race by a team mate."

They can't put a Kimi or a Vettel as Alonso's teammate, the guy (Alonso) will crack!

[freaky2 1]

Source?

[Quiet One 15]

"But all the evidence from Alonso’s career shows that the one thing he cannot cope with is being beaten in qualifying or a race by a team mate."

They can't put a Kimi or a Vettel as Alonso's teammate, the guy (Alonso) will crack!

That phrase from JA almost made me sign up to the site just to post a reply. That's merely drivel disguised as fact as there is not a single evidence of that, no matter how much people likes to repeat it and even I fell iin that trap. We all THINK he cannot cope, only because of a highly unorthodox 2007. Other than that, not a single shred of evidence. Simply because not a single driver has been even close.

And no, spare me the Trulli myth. The guy was beaten by nando before he could spell "no grip". And he himself admitted as much this year.

All there is is a few bad races from him. The very few which his teammates managed to outqualify him or beat him. But practically all of them were because some mistake from Alonso. Not a single teammate actually beat him in pace during a whole championship.

Being annoyed on a bad day does not mean not coping with a competitive teammate or the same should be said about Lewis/Button/Seb for a start, and almost as fairly about Kimi (if you replaced 'annoyed' with 'gloomy').

[BradSpeedMan 6]

That phrase from JA almost made me sign up to the site just to post a reply. That's merely drivel disguised as fact as there is not a single evidence of that, no matter how much people likes to repeat it and even I fell iin that trap. We all THINK he cannot cope, only because of a highly unorthodox 2007. Other than that, not a single shred of evidence. Simply because not a single driver has been even close.

And no, spare me the Trulli myth. The guy was beaten by nando before he could spell "no grip". And he himself admitted as much this year.

All there is is a few bad races from him. The very few which his teammates managed to outqualify him or beat him. But practically all of them were because some mistake from Alonso. Not a single teammate actually beat him in pace during a whole championship.

Being annoyed on a bad day does not mean not coping with a competitive teammate or the same should be said about Lewis/Button/Seb for a start, and almost as fairly about Kimi (if you replaced 'annoyed' with 'gloomy').

WHAT??!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You have'nt signed up yet???

[Quiet One 15]

WHAT??!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You have'nt signed up yet???

Nope. I am a regular reader and it's my "other" favorite F1 page (in fact, the only two I have bookmarked are TF1 and JA). But never felt the need to reply. Replies there are usually quite rational, anyways. Much more civilized than your average F1 site in any case.

[LabradoRacer 2]

That phrase from JA almost made me sign up to the site just to post a reply. That's merely drivel disguised as fact as there is not a single evidence of that, no matter how much people likes to repeat it and even I fell iin that trap. We all THINK he cannot cope, only because of a highly unorthodox 2007. Other than that, not a single shred of evidence. Simply because not a single driver has been even close.

And no, spare me the Trulli myth. The guy was beaten by nando before he could spell "no grip". And he himself admitted as much this year.

All there is is a few bad races from him. The very few which his teammates managed to outqualify him or beat him. But practically all of them were because some mistake from Alonso. Not a single teammate actually beat him in pace during a whole championship.

Being annoyed on a bad day does not mean not coping with a competitive teammate or the same should be said about Lewis/Button/Seb for a start, and almost as fairly about Kimi (if you replaced 'annoyed' with 'gloomy').

You don't have to sign up to comment. At least that was the case I commented last time.

By now, Alonso is "at home" with Ferrari. So even if Seb arrives, he's unlikely to feel unnerved or a bit out of place, the way he perhaps was at Lewis's soon-to-be ex-home team. That may have impacted his pace a bit. I do think that Kimi, Seb & Lewis can easily match his pace, but Alonso's racecraft & overall package (tee hee) is probably the best of the current field.

In any case, there's only one way to find out. Let Seb go to Ferrari in 2014.

[Quiet One 15]

In any case, there's only one way to find out. Let Seb go to Ferrari in 2014.

Yup. I read that one too, with the underlying message of "...otherwise, he is frightened of competition". I do not believe that Alonso would like competition, if it means having to battle the other teams, as well as his teammate. But that is the same for every other driver in the grid. To say that others "relish in competition" is only half true. They all "relish in competition", otherwise they would be knitting at home, not driving an F1 car. And for a guy who has battled the RBRs and Maccas 3/4s of a season, to say that he does not relish in competition would be at least unfair.

[LabradoRacer 2]

Yup. I read that one too, with the underlying message of "...otherwise, he is frightened of competition". I do not believe that Alonso would like competition, if it means having to battle the other teams, as well as his teammate. But that is the same for every other driver in the grid. To say that others "relish in competition" is only half true. They all "relish in competition", otherwise they would be knitting at home, not driving an F1 car. And for a guy who has battled the RBRs and Maccas 3/4s of a season, to say that he does not relish in competition would be at least unfair.

Well, I meant more in the sense of who's faster. Agree with your post, though.

[Quiet One 15]

Well, I meant more in the sense of who's faster. Agree with your post, though.

Yup, I understood that from your post, I was referring more to the comments along that line in general, not yours, actually. A bad habit of mine which George knows too well

I don't think it will prove who is faster, anyways. With drivers like Vettel and Alonso together, it will be like Senna/Prost. No matter who ends up on top, the other drivers fans will still assume that the 'fastest' guy was fast only because the team favours him and my favorite driver would have easily be on top if not for some X factor.

[Quiet One 15]

Well, Massa will stay for one more season. For one of the highest paid drivers on the grid, which has only shown a glimpse of good performance in just 2 races of the past two years, that's not a bad deal even with a massive pay cut which I doubt he got.

[LabradoRacer 2]

Massa's one-year deal probably has put him in a "damned if I do, damned if I don't" situation. If he doesn't do well, he's obviously out. If he does well, Ferrari's resurgence will pave the way for Vettel's entry.

[Quiet One 15]

Massa's one-year deal probably has put him in a "damned if I do, damned if I don't" situation. If he doesn't do well, he's obviously out. If he does well, Ferrari's resurgence will pave the way for Vettel's entry.

I doubt that 'damned' is a word to describe it. If he doesn't do well, it will be still the highest paid underperformer ever

If he does do well, he will leave by the front door having been the squire to the main legends of nowadays motorsport: Michael/Kimi/Alonso.

When compared with Schumi, Rubinho, Trulli, Fisichella and other's way of stepping down from F1 I don't think he will have too much to lament.

[Rainmaster 7]

Massa said that Massa was the 2nd highest points scorer in x number of recent races, in that other thread. I'm not sure what to think about Massa (the driver). On the one hand, it's obvious to me that Hockenheim radio call pretty much mentally destroyed him and he could have beat Alonso on many more occasions than he did over the last few years, without that mental torpedo (of course while never actually having "the beating" of Alonso, who is better than even a non-mentally destroyed Massa probably 8 or 9 times out of 10). In that sense, I feel bad for him (don't read too much into the word "bad" here, obviously he's paid millions, etc etc blah and I don't actually care).

On the other hand, it's funny that Massa only improves his form when it's contract time and that makes me think so much worse of him than some innocent victim of Ferrari's driver policy. Could he have been an effective rear gunner of Alonso all of this time? A competent but unimpressive driver like we knew him? Was he just "phoning it in" all this time? If true, that is a damning indictment on him as a sportsman, for me (do read a lot into "damning indictment", I really don't like this if it's the case which I suspect it is).

On the third hand (yeah what?), I suppose it's probably a combination of both things: Ferrari screwed Massa (from his pov) after building him up and supporting him so much, so he thought "okay, I'll just take my pay cheques from now on and not even try". I think the expression here is "making a rod for your own back" - that's what Ferrari did, in terms of their WCC chances at least, with that Hockenheim radio call (and maybe even for Alonso's chances too, if you consider a strong rear gunner beneficial).

Of course there are other possibilities too about Massa's form (not just the accident angle), but this post is already too long. End conclusion? I guess I still think that what Ferrari did was a mistake, basically, and was not something that Alonso needed either. Massa? Considering how terrible his performances have been until contract time, I don't like the fact he got a new contract, and it's strange how he doesn't seem to get any of the criticisms we used to hear about Raikkonen all of the time, despite there being very little evidence in KR's case of "lack of motivation" etc and everything in Massa's. I guess nationalities just play such a large part in perceptions.

[Massa 0]

Massa didn't deserve an extension, but what options remained? Anyone who would just do a one-year deal was in career salvation mode, just like Massa. Sauber made a ton more sense for Hülkenberg because it establishes contact with Ferrari in case Vettel doesn't sign in 2014, but also leaves him open to pursue other opportunities and stand out as Pérez did. You can get worse results and still look better leading Sauber than you can in a supporting Ferrari role if the gap to Alonso gets too big.

Massa had his chance; he did alright. He even had another chance. Recall he led the points early in the 2010 season over Alonso. He was third at Australia; Alonso was fourth. No team orders there. He beat Alonso at Monaco and Turkey, too. Then he crapped himself in three consecutive rounds and it was over. Ferrari let him fall back into his number two role naturally; it was never clearly designated to him until he proved it needed to be.

By the way, Alonso lost the title by 4 points in 2010. In two races, Massa finished ahead of Alonso by one position, meaning a little hold in the pits (as they did it back then) would have done it. Reverse Massa and Alonso in those two, and Alonso gets 3 more points in Melbourne and 2 more in Turkey. He wins the WDC by 1 point over Vettel. Ferrari cost Alonso the WDC in 2010 by letting Massa play early on. The guy should have been Hockenheimed sooner when you think about it.

SparkNotes: Fast driver, had his day, had a few more days after that, let this happen to himself, gets another year thanks to the guy he gift-wrapped a championship for in 2010...nice of Vettel to repay him.

[Quiet One 15]

Yup. The 'Hockenheim destroyed him' is a lousy argument in his favour no matter how you look at it.

1) Drivers were always being told to let their teammates through, with or without team orders, since the beginning of time. The fact that Ferrari team orders (and RBR) are the ones that get aired by FOM means little

2) Many drivers say they would never accept team orders, but will nonetheless act as if they received them. Not a lot more glory down that path right?

3) Let's accept it was the first time in his whole life that he received a team order, and that he thought it a complete farce as he sees himself as Michael Ayrton Prost do Fangio reincarnated. Yet, the first time they tell him to move aside (when he was driving so raggedly just to keep ahead of Alonso he was more likely crash than keep Alonso at bay for much longer) he becomes so shocked he loses all his skills FOR 3 FRIGGIN YEARS!!!

Yup, that's right. He does not become angry and fights back for his honor. He does not slap Nando's arrogant face with a rubber chicken. He decides that battling against the catterhams and marussias is his own way of revenge....heheheh the idiots!

Let's also accept that all this was planned by Alonso previously in a dark covenant with Santander CEO, Mr.Burns, LdM and Belzebub II. The key words being, of course, the most damning phrase ever in F1: "This is ridiculous"...oh, dear george, how could they even put those words on the air? Nobody thought about the children???

Resoolt? Alonso was an arrogant pig, selfish (the only one in F1, it is known) and, above all, A COWARD WHO FEARED FELIPE'S FEARSOME CHALLENGE. Something we know must be true, having watching him trembling scared these past years against weaklings like Kimi, Michael, Vettel, Lewis, Button...

On the contrary, Felipinho looks like...what again?

4) As a final note: as Andrew Davies (!!!!) himself wrote about how bad Felipinho might have felt this past race when told to hold station behind Nando: "he shouldn't feel bad about it...his main supporter all this time was in the car ahead". That's right. Felipinho, due to Hockenheim, the accident or not having a clear visor despite yelling at Rob Smedley wasn't exactly a top class driver for about 90% of these past years, despite earning as if. Yet, the team kept supporting him and Alonso as well.

Even if to keep him as a plaything for Alonso's amusement, I think they could have provided Nando with a cheaper court jester for 1/10th of Massa's wages. And LdM and the powers at Fiat and Ferrari might love Alonso and have wet dreams about him, but I don't think they were willing to spend millions on a worthless driver only because it made him happy, nor I think Alonso would have left to drive for Marussia should they fire Massa and replace him by Karthikeyan, for example.

They (Ferrari and Alonso) truly supported him for reasons unknown to me way beyond any rational thought perceivable from outside.

If anything, Massa should be grateful.

And yeah, despite all the sarcasm I still think Felipinho is a nice guy

[Rainmaster 7]

Well, there's quite a lot to respond to here, and not all of it strictly relevant to my post. And hey, wait a minute! Andres you just did that thing where you simplified what I said so it seemed ridiculous

To be clear: I have no issue with team orders in any team and this isn't even actually about the fact that Ferrari's are slightly worse than other teams (Ferrari's have to be, they design slower cars ..); I never said he was hard done by (I mentioned his earnings); I have never disputed Ferrari's irrational support for him (of course, that doesn't mean they don't support Alonso more, to his detriment, but that really isn't the point either); and if it's true like I think that he has been mentally absolutely nowhere for a long time then I don't see any way that could be construed as an argument in his favour(!)

I am merely looking at the connection between Ferrari's choices and Massa's form. I cited Hockenheim because I thought that was such a clear example. What's it an example of? Massa's mental destruction (orchestrated by the evil Fernando Alonso and super evil Ferrari team ).

In other words, that Alonso's speed and more importantly to Massa (after being the darling of the team) Ferrari's choice of Alonso over him (after them supporting him over Kimi no less!), had a big impact on him mentally - that's almost such an obvious point I feel stupid saying it. Or do people still believe Massa's head injury was the issue and he only recovered in the first part of 2010, then deteriorated again, then got better again now? Again, this is not in favour of him, it just shows how mentally fragile he was and is. He basically admitted how much his confidence and motivation had been an issue after the Japanese GP. It's all there.

Also, I do not claim to know whether that mental impact was something Massa has/had a certain control of (i.e. has he just been not really trying these past years? Or not trying to improve? His improvement in form during a contract negotiation strongly suggests that) or has he actually been grappling with his driving these last years? Trying to regain some confidence? (IF you think in these black and white ways you could come to different conclusions about Massa, e.g. in the extreme "oh he was so hard done by (a Massa fan)" or "my God! What a terrible guy just collecting a pay cheque and wasting a seat (a Massa hater)"). Actually, being human, it's probably a mixture of both of those issues. Once he lost confidence, he just kept digging himself deeper and deeper and results got worse and worse (in truth, he was probably overdriving trying to match Alonso, if anything).

My only real point therefore would be that whatever Massa is today, good or bad and rightly or wrongly, Ferrari made him that way. They can never ever be critical of his performances, because they are in large part responsible for it. If you knock a "number one" driver down (as he was for them), you cannot complain if he takes a hell of a long time to get back up. I think the truth of this can be seen by the fact that Ferrari haven't criticised Massa, and they've kept supporting him, because they know the reality of the situation on some level In fact, I can't really see another rational reason why they've continually supported him, other than out of sheer guilt

Please refrain from interpreting this post as anti Alonso/Ferrari/Obama/Felix Baumgartner or Pro Alonso/Massa/Kimi/Obama/genocide.

Eric: I prefer to blame the mistakes of Alonso and Ferrari during 2010 on his title loss (and the inexperience of Vettel on the fact he even had a chance at all), not the fact Massa was allowed to race for half the year. Doing that does a disservice to Alonso (what, the best driver in F1 needs to have absolute number one status all year to win? I don't think so). Allowing drivers to race to the wire (or close to it) is fairer for them, more fun for us, and generally a wonderful thing to do

Agree that it's a good move from Ferrari's POV to sign him up and probably a good move for Hulkenberg!

[Rainmaster 7]

And if you don't agree with that post, I'm unfollowing you both on Twitter.

[brambilla 0]

A little less than five hours for Kimis announcement. I dont understand why he would've gone to the Expense of setting up a website if all he plans to do is stay at Lotus, I'm hoping he'll move to RedBull with Webbo taking a sabbatical.

[LabradoRacer 2]

A little less than five hours for Kimis announcement. I dont understand why he would've gone to the Expense of setting up a website if all he plans to do is stay at Lotus, I'm hoping he'll move to RedBull with Webbo taking a sabbatical.

Most probably that's an elaborate ad/marketing for Clear shampoo.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Happy Birthday to him, Happy Birthday to him, Happy Birthday to Kimi, Happy Birthday to him!!!!

HIP HIP HOORAYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

another hip.....HOOORRAAAYYYYYY!!!!!!!

[BradSpeedMan 6]

A little less than five hours for Kimis announcement. I dont understand why he would've gone to the Expense of setting up a website if all he plans to do is stay at Lotus, I'm hoping he'll move to RedBull with Webbo taking a sabbatical.

Lotus PR at work...plain and simple

[Caesar 0]

Alonso is a pig!

[freaky2 1]

Lotus PR at work...plain and simple

Yep, Kimi would have never done it by himself xD