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cavallino

The Schumacher Thread

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You SLUT dribbles...you. go. to. other. sites!! :o

Yes. But I swear they mean nothing to me and I'm thinking of you the whole time.

Want some popcorn, by the way? I got caramel, butter, double butter, icing sugar, or triple butter (though that last one was really for the Yanks around here).

Mmmm, thanks. I'll just have salted if you have it. By the way, can you stop rustling your sweet papers, I can't hear them arguing. And if you insist on kissing your girlfriend on the back row, at least let me have a go too. Hang on.......that's not a girl.....I recognise that bald head...ANDRES!!!!

Ewwwww! And you call me a slut! Is this the true definition of 'Argy bargy'?

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Sorry mate...no salted popcorn.

Tell you what though....have a mouthful of plain, and then lick Andre's bald spot....quiet salty I hear :ph34r:

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Want some popcorn, by the way? I got caramel, butter, double butter, icing sugar, or triple butter (though that last one was really for the Yanks around here).

mmmm. Andres Triple Andres butter Andres. (heh heh...I said 'butter Andres')

You dont need to call me stupid, do you?

Andres It's Andres his Andres way Andres.

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Andres It's Andres his Andres way Andres.

It's all about love and respect

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It's all about love and respect

and respiratory systems

and reserve goal keepers

and reshuffles

and resentment

and rectums

Edited by adamstrags

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and respiratory systems

and reserve goal keepers

and reshuffles

and resentment

and rectums

Was it ironic that you left 'rectum' unitl the bottom? Either way, it doesn't work; His name isn't 'Andrec'. *dribbler sighs and rests his case*.

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Ask yourself why Michael gets preference?

He's earned the right, proved his consistency and you don't win 7x WDC for nothing, so there's the answer to the test.

Question for Cavalino and friends (dont remember who wrote this, but it does not matter):

Do you really think that a F1 team´s preferences is earned purely based on performance?

If so, answer this:

Did Satoru Nakajima deserved to be in F1? (I am not comparing him to MS, of course, just giving extreme example to destroy this inverted argument that "If he got preferences => so he must be outstanding")

If you guys think so, you are too naive about F1...

(I may have wrote some wrong facts about a long gonne and boring 2002 season, as Cav rightly pointed out...

But I prefer to have a memory fade than to be that naive about what media tries to sell us...

)

First of all, to be in F1 one you need money and sponsors. So those 20 something guys are not really the best F1 could get, but maybe the best of those who could afford.

Ask yourself how good MS pre-F1 career really was before joining F1, and check if there were not better options back then... Compare his pre-F1 career to that of Senna... In Senna´s case, we could really say he was the right guy...

I am not saying MS is not a superb driver. All I am saying is that he is as humman as anyother driver, and make mistakes like any other driver (some make less mistakes than him).

He might be even one of the fastest guys, but his work was pretty much facilitated by not having to prove himself against strong teammates. You can compare the pressure a driver has to stand when facing teammates like Senna, Prost, LH to the pressure Michael had to face during his ENTIRE career (apart from Piquet, who he did not beat, by the way)

Not admitting this is a statement of stupidity...

About Massa:

I am brazilian and I could follow better Massa´s interviews in Brazilian TV (better than your guys)

And it was absolutely clear that he was there to help and learn from Schummi, admitedly to guarantee his seat at Ferrari, just like an as*hole apple polisher... He knew that in order to extend his contract he should became MS friend... And he would not be his friend (and consequently gain his support for staying at Ferrari) if he started to touch wheels or try to overtake him... would he?

Cavalino: do you really think the Massa who faced Kimi had the same mentality as the Massa who faced MS???

Give me a break.

You maybe very good at memorizing facts about F1, but that does not mean you understand how it works. But apparently, you easily swallow everything the media says...

As Kimi just said, there is a lot of politics in F1... And we will never know what was him referring to...

I dont know what else I can say...

Edited by shields

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But apparently, you easily swallow everything the media says...

That is what I have been noticing quite a lot. There is always more than what meets the eye in most cases, but as long as its not proved, those who try to give an idea will continue to look like fools.

Now who would have believed that Fernando's team-mate crashed to make him win?

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That is what I have been noticing quite a lot. There is always more than what meets the eye in most cases, but as long as its not proved, those who try to give an idea will continue to look like fools.

Now who would have believed that Fernando's team-mate crashed to make him win?

Exactly the point I was trying to make to these forumers...

F1 is not a fairy tale...

of course MS is superb, one of the most intelligent guys in F1 history, and a very nice guy too...

But some of his supporters want desperately to worship him and prefer to believe everything he concquered was simply because he was the best, the fastest the most consistent, etc...

They dont accept the small possibility that he would be beaten by FA or LH in the same car...

Or that the preferences he earned was not only due to his performances, but also because of the friendly relationship he intelligently stablished with the staff... But no! For the worshipers, it is all down to being the fastest and better driver of all universe...

What if his passport to F1 was because he was a german-Mercedez built driver? And what if his joining Ferrari with #1 status had also received a little push from BE, because F1 needed a new hero after Senna´s death and the vintage of F1 drivers was particularly poor back them???

Not saying he does not have a big part of merit in his achievements, but I wouldnt be naive enough to believe his numbers are a realistic mirror of how superb he is...

But I also dont blame Cavalino and others for worshipping...

After all, I had my heros in my childhood too.. But now I am 37 :)

Edited by shields

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What if his passport to F1 was because he was a german-Mercedez built driver? And what if his joining Ferrari with #1 status had also received a little push from BE, because F1 needed a new hero after Senna

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Exactly the point I was trying to make to these forumers...

F1 is not a fairy tale...

of course MS is superb, one of the most intelligent guys in F1 history, and a very nice guy too...

But some of his supporters want desperately to worship him and prefer to believe everything he concquered was simply because he was the best, the fastest the most consistent, etc...

Who exactly thinks that? Are you directing that at someone here? If so, please back it up with a quote. If not, please stop it. It's infuriating and you are letting yourself down more than before.

They dont accept the small possibility that he would be beaten by FA or LH in the same car...

Again, who said that? I think a 2006 Michael would have been beaten by a 2006 and/or a 2008 Hamilton.

Or that the preferences he earned was not only due to his performances, but also because of the friendly relationship he intelligently stablished with the staff... But no! For the worshipers, it is all down to being the fastest and better driver of all universe...

I don't know a single forum member here who believes that. It's getting worse for you by the word. But please continue. At first I was embaressed for you, now it's just like making a monkey dance. Well, go on then, dance!

What if his passport to F1 was because he was a german-Mercedez built driver? And what if his joining Ferrari with #1 status had also received a little push from BE, because F1 needed a new hero after Senna´s death and the vintage of F1 drivers was particularly poor back them???

Hey, you dance really well. Have a banana.

But I also dont blame Cavalino and others for worshipping...

After all, I had my heros in my childhood too.. But now I am 37 :)

For reference, based on what I have read, Cavallino has more intelligence in his thumb than you have in your entire delluded mind tank.

Edited by dribbler

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Question for Cavalino and friends (dont remember who wrote this, but it does not matter):

I have friends :o

Anyway, I am only going to respond to some parts of your post. Most of it is quite frankly, rubbish.

"If he got preferences => so he must beoutstanding")

If you are making a comment about Schumacher, there is a vast vast mountain of facts to support it. And your comments show little evidence that you have followed the sport closely enough to have a well formed opinion frankly.

PS: That Nakajima wasn't all that bad. From what little I know of F1 back then, he was ok.

(I may have wrote some wrong facts about a long gonne and boring 2002 season, as Cav rightly pointed out...

But I prefer to have a memory fade than to be that naive about what media tries to sell us...

)

If you can't get basic facts right, then well, I will listen to the media rather than you.

First of all, to be in F1 one you need money and sponsors. So those 20 something guys are not really the best F1 could get, but maybe the best of those who could afford.

They're not the best of 7 billion, but they are some of the best of a few hundred million, which is still quite something. Sure, a starving kid in the third world will never make it to F1, but a rich kid anywhere in the world, or a very talented passionate kid in the richer countries has a fair chance. An that's still a helluva lot of people.

Ask yourself how good MS pre-F1 career really was before joining F1, and check if there were not better options back then...

Do you know anything, anything about his per-F1 career? Anything at all? I'll tell you a bit, he was outstanding by any standards, though he didn't win everything. He spent a long time in karts, and tried his hands at a lot of things, two seasons of sports car racing, even Le Mans. He was taken under the Mercedes driver program, and they had big plans for him, when the chance came up, they paid Jordan to let him drive a race. After that debut he immediately became hot property, with more than one team wanting to hire him. Actually Schumacher, coming from a not too rich family is a perfect example of someone making it to the top due to determination and talent.

I am brazilian and I could follow better Massa

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It can be a shock because you go from knowing more about F1 than anyone around you to just being one in a crowd, and often humbled by someone who has been a Liuzzi fan for 20 years and lost all their hair in the process tongue.gif And that's also what makes it fun.

No clue who are you talking about there. eusa_think.gif

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What if his passport to F1 was because he was a german-Mercedez built driver?

What if the sky is actually green?

you obviously never took part in a debate. If you make a statement of that magnitude, you have to back it up with something. Or you just look very silly.

After all, I had my heros in my childhood too.. But now I am 37 :)

My heroes, if I have any, certainly aren't people who live in multi million dollar mansions in Switzerland and drive cars in circles for a living.

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I don't know a single forum member here who believes that. It's getting worse for you by the word. But please continue. At first I was embaressed for you, now it's just like making a monkey dance. Well, go on then, dance!

Really?

I wrote more than once that I think MS is a great (I even use the word superb) driver. I only mentioned that he has not proven enough, due to the circunstances he enjoyed during his whole career... (or should I have said I wished I could see him doing what Button choose to do which is to find a challenge in a strong teammate - LH)

(was that any blaspheme?)

And look how you and Cavallino reacted... Calling me stupid and such...

That alone shows how religious you two are about MS... And dont tell me you call me these things because of my mistakes about 2002, cause I know that if I made these mistakes in order to hype him, I am sure you would be very nice to me...

But of course the only way Cavallino had to escape the key points he refused to answer was to focus on my mistakes (I admit it) and tell everyone that I dont know anything about F1... and no one should pay attention...

By discrediting me in the forum he thinks his opinions will prevail, and everybody will follow him...

Well done... But I dont care...

I may not remember statistics and facts (basic ones, I admit), because I tend to loose interest once I take the main conclusions about the season and the drivers.

I have difficulty in memorizing facts, I confess, as I am a technical guy and a short number of neurons quickly got occupied with technical things like aerodynamics and turbulence (I work with CFD) and engineering in general - That is what F1 is about... Not if this driver is better than the other - or should I say "my driver is better than yours".

In 2002, I confess I cannot say much about it, although I think I got the main aspects right... Once I got my general idea about the season (and the drivers), I forget about statistics...

Maybe I confused some aspects of that season with the 2004 season. That does not invalidate the points I made... Only changed the time frame...

For instance, I may not know exactly how many times MS made mistakes in 2002, but I KNOW he did several times under no particular pressure (comfortable leading). Kind of reminded me about Senna in Monaco. He had several runs off the track while leading, but he was lucky get back still on the lead, as he had a dominant car...

Does it matter if I forgot exactly how many times he did it? Does it matter if it were in 2002 or 2004?

What matters is that if he had a closer competition that year, these mistakes could have cost him the title, just like in 2006 where he lost because he made more mistakes than Alonso, or in 2003 when he almost lost to a one year old McL (with updates) due to consecutive mistakes in the beginning of the season.. Also in 1994 he had to crash into DH because of a mistake... otherwise he would have lost the title... (we cannot exactly say he deals well with pressure, can we?)

But of course, convincing everybody I am stupid and dont understand anything about F1 is easier than to answer (for instance) how come MS did not destroy Nelson Piquet in Bennetton... And actually got beaten by the only serious competitor...

Finally, once again, I never said MS is not a great great driver... I only said he is normal and human as any other top driver, and that I missed not being able to directly compare him to other great drivers... Saying Rubens Irvine and Massa in his first year of apple-polishing at Ferrari were all great competitors is simply illarious... But of course you are right and I am simply too stupid to understand that... :rolleyes:

Edited by shields

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And look how you and Cavallino reacted... Calling me stupid and such...

I can't speak for Cavallino but I called you stupid because I think the points you have attempted to makes are stupid. I don't care what you think of Michael Schumacher.

That alone shows how religious you two are about MS...

No, I don't think so. No one is more open to constructive debate about Michael, his mistakes and questionable behaviour, than me. It's the way that people like you go for the jugular and then think it's okay by saying 'but i think he is agood driver and a lovely guy' tha p!sses me off.

By discrediting me in the forum he thinks his opinions will prevail, and everybody will follow him...

I may not remember statistics and facts (basic ones, I admit), because I tend to loose interest once I take the main conclusions about the season and the drivers.

I have difficulty in memorizing facts, I confess, as I am a technical guy and a short number of neurons quickly got occupied with technical things like aerodynamics and turbulence (I work with CFD) and engineering in general - That is what F1 is about... Not if this driver is better than the other - or should I say "my driver is better than yours".

In 2002, I confess I cannot say much about it, although I think I got the main aspects right... Once I got my general idea about the season (and the drivers), I forget about statistics...

I too am not obsessed with statistics and tend to comment more on what I have seen and feel. However, dont expect a smooth ride around here if you are going to use statisitics to make a point, if they are incorrect. It's simply inexcusable.

Maybe I confused some aspects of that season with the 2004 season. That does not invalidate the points I made... Only changed the time frame...

That's a bit like saying 'he must be guilty because he did it before'. That's not acceptable.

Does it matter if I forgot exactly how many times he did it? Does it matter if it were in 2002 or 2004?

Yes and yes. Why bother typing anything atall, if not.

What matters is that if he had a closer competition that year, these mistakes could have cost him the title, just like in 2006 where he lost because he made more mistakes than Alonso, or in 2003 when he almost lost to a one year old McL (with updates) due to consecutive mistakes in the beginning of the season.. Also in 1994 he had to crash into DH because of a mistake... otherwise he would have lost the title... (we cannot exactly say he deals well with pressure, can we?)

It sounds like you wont be happy until history is re-written to accomodate all of your 'if's' and 'maybe's' to make your flaccid points valid.

But of course, convincing everybody I am stupid and dont understand anything about F1 is easier than to answer (for instance) how come MS did not destroy Nelson Piquet in Bennetton... And actually got beaten by the only serious competitor...

I don't think it's easier to convince people of anything. People here read what you write and make up their own minds.

Finally, once again, I never said MS is not a great great driver... I only said he is normal and human as any other top driver, and that I missed not being able to directly compare him to other great drivers... Saying Rubens Irvine and Massa in his first year of apple-polishing at Ferrari were all great competitors is simply illarious... But of course you are right and I am simply too stupid to understand that... :rolleyes:

And yet you still make reference to Michael versus Piquet as though that is a fair comparison.

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Was it ironic that you left 'rectum' unitl the bottom? Either way, it doesn't work; His name isn't 'Andrec'. *dribbler sighs and rests his case*.

Damn it dribs - it was an effort to give some gag miester a chance to make a joke about the misplacement of Andres' rectum, or something along those lines - you missed your oportunity.

I am indeed fully aware that rectums has a c not an s, but it was just too satisfying so I thought I'd slip it in.

EDIT (in the interest of clarity) slip the word 'rectum' in the post, not the post in the rectum.

Edited by adamstrags

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What matters is that if he had a closer competition that year, these mistakes could have cost him the title, just like in 2006 where he lost because he made more mistakes than Alonso, or in 2003 when he almost lost to a one year old McL (with updates) due to consecutive mistakes in the beginning of the season.. Also in 1994 he had to crash into DH because of a mistake... otherwise he would have lost the title... (we cannot exactly say he deals well with pressure, can we?)

It sounds like you wont be happy until history is re-written to accomodate all of your 'if's' and 'maybe's' to make your flaccid points valid.

No, I dont want to re-write history...

For God sake, is it that difficult to admit his 2003 season was not that brilliant? And that in 2006 he was not WDC because there was a better driver out there? And that 2002 and 2004 (despite my brainfade) was easily won because of a dominant car? (Nothing wrong with that: Prost also won in a dominant car which does not make him any lesser...)

No, I don't think so. No one is more open to constructive debate about Michael, his mistakes and questionable behaviour, than me.

Oh yeah... I can see how open you are....

I too am not obsessed with statistics and tend to comment more on what I have seen and feel. However, dont expect a smooth ride around here if you are going to use statisitics to make a point, if they are incorrect. It's simply inexcusable.

So it is inexcusable to make mistakes on statistics, but it is excusable to say that BAR back in 2004 should be excellent because it was designed by the same team that designed Brawn2009????? (Cavalino said it... Do you want me to copy and paste quoting him??? It is in the same thread)

That would make Ferrari2005 a dominant car, right???

With how authority this guy call me stupid? And why didnt you jump in his jugular too??? Instead, you wronte:

For reference, based on what I have read, Cavallino has more intelligence in his thumb than you have in your entire delluded mind tank.

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But of course, convincing everybody I am stupid and dont understand anything about F1 is easier than to answer (for instance) how come MS did not destroy Nelson Piquet in Bennetton... And actually got beaten by the only serious competitor...

You keep making reference to this, so perhaps you'd like to tell us a few things about it, like how many races they had together, results, how many dnf, etc, etc??

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Sure here it goes:

http://f1-facts.com/statistics/team-mates/M.Schumacher

Of course they run together for just a few races. But these were the only races in his F1 life where MS had any serious teammate (even though NP was retiring and had no chance in WDC)

NP beat him in Points, in positions and in Fastest laps. MS beat him in qualy, which is expected against an old driver which used to say (at that time) he was slower and not as quick as he used to be, but like a good wine, who gets mature with time...

I am not saying NP beat him, cause there were just a few races and each side had its own excuse (NP going to retire, MS was a rookie)...

But it certainly was not a walk over for Schummi... At all...

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Sure here it goes:

http://f1-facts.com/statistics/team-mates/M.Schumacher

Of course they run together for just a few races. But these were the only races in his F1 life where MS had any serious teammate (even though NP was retiring and had no chance in WDC)

NP beat him in Points, in positions and in Fastest laps. MS beat him in qualy, which is expected against an old driver which used to say (at that time) he was slower and not as quick as he used to be, but like a good wine, who gets mature with time...

I am not saying NP beat him, cause there were just a few races and each side had its own excuse (NP going to retire, MS was a rookie)...

But it certainly was not a walk over for Schummi... At all...

Well, if you have a look, you will see that Schumi's first race in the 91 season was in a Jordan and he didn;t even get to do the 1st lap because the car broke. Then he went to Benetton for the next race and in his 2nd race in his 2nd team he actually finished ahead of Piquet in the race. They had 5 races together and Schumi didn't finish 2 of those races, 1 was an engine break down, I think and the other was either a collision or a mistake at Adelaide (I can't find out how he went off) in torrential conditions, they only raced for 16 laps, I think. Piquet finished on 4.5 pts (due to only getting half points for the Adelaide race) and Schumi finished on 4 pts for the races they had together.

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