2011 Rumour Mill

[yurp 0]

It's not just about what he's done this year, but previous years too. In BMW he was there or there abouts on Kubica's pace who's so highly regarded to be a future 100000000000000000000000000000000000000 times world champion.

Sure, Kubica's good, but I don't see how he's a million times better than Heidfeld.

People seem to forget too, that even though Kubica won a race, Heidfeld actually moved over to allow Kubica to win. Another example of a team order that was never picked up.

Hmm - to be fair - you have point, but I remain unconvinced by Heidfeld.

I need him to pull a little more out of the bag for me to be impressed by him.

I've seen Kubica put in some amazing drives in his time and we can also see that he's capable of developing a car (looking at how the Renault pace developed over 2010).

I think a lot that happened in BMW was due to poor decisions by management. I thought it was a tragedy they switched their focus to the 2009 with still a shot at the 2008 WDC.

As a result they went backwards during the last 3rd of 2008 and then produced a lemon in 2009 anyway - wasted oportunity.

Kubica ended in 3rd place with Kimi that year. He should have been up with Hamilton and Massa looking at the WDC.

But you are right - Heidfeld, for whatever reason, pretty much kept pace with Kubica - 75 to 60 pts in 2008. So perhaps I shouldn't be so down on the guy. Just to clarify though - I don't think he's bad, I just don't think he's that good either.

[JHS 1]

I agree, in some races this year Kubica's been brilliant, Australia, Monaco, Spa and Japan spring to mind as just a few examples, but as I say, I don't really see anything that sets him out as a much better driver than Heidfeld as many people think. Maybe it's because Kubica's younger and has been in the sport fewer years than Heidfeld? I don't know.

I have to agree on how BMW managed themselves. I don't think they did themselves any favours with either drivers, and I just found it really arrogant that they presumed they'd win the title in '09, and as soon as they discovered they'd built a terrible car, they threw the toys out of the pram and left. That's not the way to go racing.

I just find it silly that drivers who are effectively buying their way into seats get the nod over somebody who although perhaps not having set the world alight previously, has many years of experience and is a pretty handy driver too, as well as having more knowledge about the Pirelli tyres than any other driver currently. The sport that claims to have the "best drivers in the world" has some drivers that on merit, shouldn't really be there.

[yurp 0]

I agree, in some races this year Kubica's been brilliant, Australia, Monaco, Spa and Japan spring to mind as just a few examples, but as I say, I don't really see anything that sets him out as a much better driver than Heidfeld as many people think. Maybe it's because Kubica's younger and has been in the sport fewer years than Heidfeld? I don't know.

I have to agree on how BMW managed themselves. I don't think they did themselves any favours with either drivers, and I just found it really arrogant that they presumed they'd win the title in '09, and as soon as they discovered they'd built a terrible car, they threw the toys out of the pram and left. That's not the way to go racing.

I just find it silly that drivers who are effectively buying their way into seats get the nod over somebody who although perhaps not having set the world alight previously, has many years of experience and is a pretty handy driver too, as well as having more knowledge about the Pirelli tyres than any other driver currently. The sport that claims to have the "best drivers in the world" has some drivers that on merit, shouldn't really be there.

yep - agree with all of that - and we can definately agree that heidfeld is better than some of the other drivers on the grid too.

[Jean Todt 4]

Mind you, Lewis Hamiton moaned a lot in the last few races. "I haven't got any grip. My tyres aren't working. My F-duct isn't working. Is my front wing damaged? Why is he so far ahead? WAAAAAAAAAH!".

I remember that you once claimed to be a neutral F1 fan, and while reading your posts, I must say that atleast 1 out of every 10 posts you have to take a dig at Lewis. You just cant resist.

What Lewis did is exactly what many drivers are doing out there, not everyone's radio transmission you get to listen. ofcourse he has the right to ask the team if his front wings are damaged, because he cant see it from where he is sitting. try to play F1 in a video game and activate the camera from c#ckpit view, you may understand his concern and he has the right to tell the team that his F duct is not working well and front tyres are not gripping so that his team can work out something which will make it more comfortable for him to get the best out of the situation. While he wasnt the one who complained about Kubica or Petrov not allowing him to overtake because he was fighting for the championship and things like that, nor did he complain about his team mate not moving over or overtaking him when he least expected. At the same time you guys don seem to praise his efforts when ever he thanks his crew or praise his crew when they do a good job for giving him the car that is capable of figthing for wins.

Get real!

[Jean Todt 4]

The difference is, whilst Lewis might complain that his ratchet isn't working properly, he's more than happy to pick it up with his bare hands on a frosty morning. The other drivers would want theirs pre-warmed.

*typo - my hands were cold.

Agreed....

[JHS 1]

I remember that you once claimed to be a neutral F1 fan, and while reading your posts, I must say that atleast 1 out of every 10 posts you have to take a dig at Lewis. You just cant resist.

What Lewis did is exactly what many drivers are doing out there, not everyone's radio transmission you get to listen. ofcourse he has the right to ask the team if his front wings are damaged, because he cant see it from where he is sitting. try to play F1 in a video game and activate the camera from c#ckpit view, you may understand his concern and he has the right to tell the team that his F duct is not working well and front tyres are not gripping so that his team can work out something which will make it more comfortable for him to get the best out of the situation. While he wasnt the one who complained about Kubica or Petrov not allowing him to overtake because he was fighting for the championship and things like that, nor did he complain about his team mate not moving over or overtaking him when he least expected. At the same time you guys don seem to praise his efforts when ever he thanks his crew or praise his crew when they do a good job for giving him the car that is capable of figthing for wins.

Get real!

I'm very sorry I angered you. Here's a present to appologise:

If you just give me your address, I'll get around to sending it.

On a more serious note, yes, I do like to think I am a more neutral fan. I bash my favourite occasionally when they mess up. I just don't understand the hype around him at all, and find his attitude very obnoxious and arrogant. I can't stand people who say things that aren't even true about him. You may interpret his radio messages differently, but to me, as an English speaker they sound like moaning and whinging. What about the message of "I have no grip"? What the heck are the team supposed to do regarding that? Stop whinging and get on with it.

Hamilton's acted like he's had a silver spoon in his mouth after being in McLaren since the start of his career, and the least he can do is show a bit of respect.

Sure, I like a bit of passion from drivers, but you only have to look at the way he acts outside of the c*ckpit when things haven't gone his way like at Monza and Singapore. He gives monosyllabic responses to the media and it just generally doesn't come across well. Compare to Vettel after Korea, and he was smiling, shrugging his shoulders and saying "that's life". Sure he was a bit grumpy after Hungary, but he noticed the criticism, grew up and changed. Seemingly that's impossible for Hamilton to do.

I just don't get it. '09 showed me something, that Hamilton struggles in an average car. He's an alright driver, but do I get the hype that CONSTANTLY surrounds him? No. After all, we can't all agree to support the same driver on this forum otherwise it'd be awfully boring. Why don't you "get real" and recognise that?

Seemingly you don't get the idea of somebody's opinion. Did I ever say what I said was fact? No.

[Quiet One 15]

Geez, James, that was really low of you. Here we do not take cheap shots at drivers.

Less of all, against Lewis. And to accuse him of anything is beyond limits.

Because the Hamster is always innocent. Of everything.

Or...is he?

[Jean Todt 4]

I'm very sorry I angered you. Here's a present to appologise:

If you just give me your address, I'll get around to sending it.

On a more serious note, yes, I do like to think I am a more neutral fan. I bash my favourite occasionally when they mess up. I just don't understand the hype around him at all, and find his attitude very obnoxious and arrogant. I can't stand people who say things that aren't even true about him. You may interpret his radio messages differently, but to me, as an English speaker they sound like moaning and whinging. What about the message of "I have no grip"? What the heck are the team supposed to do regarding that? Stop whinging and get on with it.

Hamilton's acted like he's had a silver spoon in his mouth after being in McLaren since the start of his career, and the least he can do is show a bit of respect.

Sure, I like a bit of passion from drivers, but you only have to look at the way he acts outside of the c*ckpit when things haven't gone his way like at Monza and Singapore. He gives monosyllabic responses to the media and it just generally doesn't come across well. Compare to Vettel after Korea, and he was smiling, shrugging his shoulders and saying "that's life". Sure he was a bit grumpy after Hungary, but he noticed the criticism, grew up and changed. Seemingly that's impossible for Hamilton to do.

I just don't get it. '09 showed me something, that Hamilton struggles in an average car. He's an alright driver, but do I get the hype that CONSTANTLY surrounds him? No. After all, we can't all agree to support the same driver on this forum otherwise it'd be awfully boring. Why don't you "get real" and recognise that?

Seemingly you don't get the idea of somebody's opinion. Did I ever say what I said was fact? No.

Ah that was soo sweet of you for taking the trouble and spending the time to design a T-shirt or whatever it is.....just for me. but do give to someone else wants to feel warm during winter on my behalf.

I didn't get angry or anything.

My mother tounge may not be English, but in today's world, I certainly feel happy to have been educated in an English medium school. Anyway I don't think what Lewis did was anywhere close to whinning. If you bothered to listen to how the team responded, you would understand that Lewis was asking or hinting that he might need to have another pitstop because his grip was going down. Its as simple as that. But then, as my teacher used to say, if you look at a matter with a bad attitude, it will always appear bad for you. We are not talking about hypes or any sort of nonsense or what others made up just to make him look better, here we are just talking about what happend during the last race,his radio conversation, but there you go on to dig out the same old arugment about Hamilton being privileged for being brought into Mclaren from the start of career etc etc...I don't even understand why you talk about Hamilton not showing any respect etc etc..what does that have to do on the topic we both were discusing. or is it your way of going into full attack mode?

and for the sake of arugment, you say Lewis unlike Vettel didn't take criticism and move on...well here is the link, he clearly raised his hand to accept the blame for the Monza exit.

http://www.telegraph...-One-title.html

[Quiet One 15]

You guys are taking this too seriously.

[Jean Todt 4]

You guys are taking this too seriously.

you must be serious to think that I was serious.

[JHS 1]

Ah that was soo sweet of you for taking the trouble and spending the time to design a T-shirt or whatever it is.....just for me. but do give to someone else wants to feel warm during winter on my behalf.

I didn't get angry or anything.

My mother tounge may not be English, but in today's world, I certainly feel happy to have been educated in an English medium school. Anyway I don't think what Lewis did was anywhere close to whinning. If you bothered to listen to how the team responded, you would understand that Lewis was asking or hinting that he might need to have another pitstop because his grip was going down. Its as simple as that. But then, as my teacher used to say, if you look at a matter with a bad attitude, it will always appear bad for you. We are not talking about hypes or any sort of nonsense or what others made up just to make him look better, here we are just talking about what happend during the last race,his radio conversation, but there you go on to dig out the same old arugment about Hamilton being privileged for being brought into Mclaren from the start of career etc etc...I don't even understand why you talk about Hamilton not showing any respect etc etc..what does that have to do on the topic we both were discusing. or is it your way of going into full attack mode?

and for the sake of arugment, you say Lewis unlike Vettel didn't take criticism and move on...well here is the link, he clearly raised his hand to accept the blame for the Monza exit.

http://www.telegraph...-One-title.html

I guess it's the way you interpret it. Whatever, each to their own. And my point about him not showing respect was simply saying what I think about Hamilton when you criticise my opinion for not liking him.

I think you've misunderstood on the latter part. What I was refering to was how the driver's body language and responses came across immediately after their problems, Monza and Singapore for Hamilton, and Korea for Vettel. Vettel was still managing to smile a bit and be philosophical about it, where as Hamilton was looking like he'd rather be at the dentist.

I don't know, I'm just now a fan of Lewis's. This didn't do him any favours in my mind either. I wonder if he had the balls to say that to his face on the podium? Talk about a poor sport.

Anyway, is it such a bad thing that we all like different drivers?

[mikathegreat2 2]

To be fair, I'm neutral too & dislike/hate certain drivers (Villeneuve/Ide/Sato/Nelsinho)!

[pabloh20 1]

But then, as my teacher used to say, if you look at a matter with a bad attitude, it will always appear bad for you.

I like that

[Jean Todt 4]

I guess it's the way you interpret it. Whatever, each to their own. And my point about him not showing respect was simply saying what I think about Hamilton when you criticise my opinion for not liking him.

I think you've misunderstood on the latter part. What I was refering to was how the driver's body language and responses came across immediately after their problems, Monza and Singapore for Hamilton, and Korea for Vettel. Vettel was still managing to smile a bit and be philosophical about it, where as Hamilton was looking like he'd rather be at the dentist.

I don't know, I'm just now a fan of Lewis's. This didn't do him any favours in my mind either. I wonder if he had the balls to say that to his face on the podium? Talk about a poor sport.

Anyway, is it such a bad thing that we all like different drivers?

What did my post have anything to with the amount of respect Hamilton had shown after those races in first place? our discusion was about what happened during the race in Abu Dhabi, its you who pulled out a completely pointless arguement about Lewis behaving after his exit that happened many gps back. This is why we have so many pointless arguements. And you boast to be an English speaker, while even a four year old immigrant kid in UK learning english would have understood what I was talking about. For sometime I really belived you are a neutral fan, and had some respect for you. In the heat of the arguement you pulled out something just to make your argument more loud and heavy. I have seen some incompetent lawyers do that.

As for your link, where does he complain about Kubica? all he says is that he couldn't get past...did you get to hear what the press asked him? and where does it prove that Hamilton was angry as it states in the headlines? just because the headlines say 'Lewis Hamilton Fury at Robert Kubica ' Sebastian Vettel' doesnt mean its true. Press or media write a lot of bulls##t, and headlines are designed to capture attention. Even BBC does it these days.

Did Vettel smile after the collision with Webber? didn't you see what he showed after getting out of the car? To save you the trouble I attach the image to remind you.

didn't you type this? 'He's jsut done 55 laps in a incredible hostile (for want of a better word) environement and lost out on the championship after being sat behind the same damn car for more than half the race. I hardly think any of the candidates would have been that pleased to be in that situation.

The way Alonso wears his heart on his sleeve and displays his emotions so clearly is what some find so appealing and others find a turn off. I'm in the former. In an age where drivers are hardly allowed to do or say what they think in front of the sponsors for fear of what they'll think has become a bore recently. It certainly makes a change from the likes of some drivers where you can't tell if they are actually alive or not. *cough* Kimi *cough*.'

But if it was Lewis who does all these sort of things that Alonso did, you go on to say he is arrogant or spoilt or he lacks respect and things like that.

There is nothing wrong in liking a different driver, but there is something wrong when you say things that are not true just to make a certain driver or a person look bad.

The world would have been a boring place if we all shared the same opinion, but it doesnt mean you can get away by talking things that are not true.

[Jean Todt 4]

To be fair, I'm neutral too & dislike/hate certain drivers (Villeneuve/Ide/Sato/Nelsinho)!

no more free beer and busty virgins.

[JHS 1]

What did my post have anything to with the amount of respect Hamilton had shown after those races in first place? our discusion was about what happened during the race in Abu Dhabi, its you who pulled out a completely pointless arguement about Lewis behaving after his exit that happened many gps back. This is why we have so many pointless arguements. And you boast to be an English speaker, while even a four year old immigrant kid in UK learning english would have understood what I was talking about. For sometime I really belived you are a neutral fan, and had some respect for you. In the heat of the arguement you pulled out something just to make your argument more loud and heavy. I have seen some incompetent lawyers do that.

As for your link, where does he complain about Kubica? all he says is that he couldn't get past...did you get to hear what the press asked him? and where does it prove that Hamilton was angry as it states in the headlines? just because the headlines say 'Lewis Hamilton Fury at Robert Kubica ' Sebastian Vettel' doesnt mean its true. Press or media write a lot of bulls##t, and headlines are designed to capture attention. Even BBC does it these days.

Did Vettel smile after the collision with Webber? didn't you see what he showed after getting out of the car? To save you the trouble I attach the image to remind you.

didn't you type this? 'He's jsut done 55 laps in a incredible hostile (for want of a better word) environement and lost out on the championship after being sat behind the same damn car for more than half the race. I hardly think any of the candidates would have been that pleased to be in that situation.

The way Alonso wears his heart on his sleeve and displays his emotions so clearly is what some find so appealing and others find a turn off. I'm in the former. In an age where drivers are hardly allowed to do or say what they think in front of the sponsors for fear of what they'll think has become a bore recently. It certainly makes a change from the likes of some drivers where you can't tell if they are actually alive or not. *cough* Kimi *cough*.'

But if it was Lewis who does all these sort of things that Alonso did, you go on to say he is arrogant or spoilt or he lacks respect and things like that.

There is nothing wrong in liking a different driver, but there is something wrong when you say things that are not true just to make a certain driver or a person look bad.

The world would have been a boring place if we all shared the same opinion, but it doesnt mean you can get away by talking things that are not true.

My God.

For all the insults you throw my way, it is clear that YOU are the one that cannot read English.

I never referred to Turkey. I said AFTER Hungary. Hungary was AFTER Turkey. Bloody hell. Is that so difficult for you to comprehend?

It's quite ironic you say that about the media. I guess that applies to your link too then?

Yes, because I have respect and admiration for Alonso, as he's started in a small team, Minardi, and fought his way up to be where he is now. Same with Kimi, Felipe, Jenson, Michael, Sebastian and Mark. In that area, I have respect for all those drivers I've mentioned. Yet Hamilton's always driven for McLaren, so as soon as things aren't going his way or his car isn't performing to its best, he flips. And I guess Mr Hamilton-never-done-a-thing-wrong-in-his-life-not-even-lie-gate wouldn't never do such as thing as what Fernando did, would he?

You prove what's wrong with this forum these days. On the whole, it's a nice place to come to discuss F1, yet there's occasionally people like you who fail to recognise that WE ARE ALL DIFFERENT.

We all support different drivers. We have drivers we dislike too. In my case, I dislike Lewis Hamilton. I've given my opinion, yet you attack me and essentially call me an idiot for not liking the same driver as you. F*cking ridiculous.

This doesn't even class as a discussion. It is just you attacking me for not liking Hamilton.

F*ck off pathetic little man.

[monza gorilla 1]

You guys are taking this way too seriously.

Remember, better to keep quiet and let people think you a fool, than to open your mouth and prove it beyond all doubt.

[pabloh20 1]

You guys are taking this way too seriously.

Remember, better to keep quiet and let people think you a fool, than to open your mouth and prove it beyond all doubt.

The words barn, horse and bolted spring to mind.

[Jean Todt 4]

My God.

For all the insults you throw my way, it is clear that YOU are the one that cannot read English.

I never referred to Turkey. I said AFTER Hungary. Hungary was AFTER Turkey. Bloody hell. Is that so difficult for you to comprehend?

It's quite ironic you say that about the media. I guess that applies to your link too then?

Yes, because I have respect and admiration for Alonso, as he's started in a small team, Minardi, and fought his way up to be where he is now. Same with Kimi, Felipe, Jenson, Michael, Sebastian and Mark. In that area, I have respect for all those drivers I've mentioned. Yet Hamilton's always driven for McLaren, so as soon as things aren't going his way or his car isn't performing to its best, he flips. And I guess Mr Hamilton-never-done-a-thing-wrong-in-his-life-not-even-lie-gate wouldn't never do such as thing as what Fernando did, would he?

You prove what's wrong with this forum these days. On the whole, it's a nice place to come to discuss F1, yet there's occasionally people like you who fail to recognise that WE ARE ALL DIFFERENT.

We all support different drivers. We have drivers we dislike too. In my case, I dislike Lewis Hamilton. I've given my opinion, yet you attack me and essentially call me an idiot for not liking the same driver as you. F*cking ridiculous.

This doesn't even class as a discussion. It is just you attacking me for not liking Hamilton.

F*ck off pathetic little man.

Idiot.

[freaky2 1]

Except for the insults, I'm on Abbas's side. If you respect Alonso for something you despise Hamilton for, then you're not a neutral fan. Plus, even if you're defeinding Vettel's ability to mature (why should he, if he had stayed the same level-headed kid he was in 2008 he wouldn't even need to mature now, but anyways...) that doesn't mean you have to insult another person for not understanding you, when you talked about 10 different things in your post (yes, I also didn't get your "after Hungary" reference, so you could have explained calmly if you indeed meant that, I think).

And, before reading the last N posts, I was thinking of what JHS said about Hammy in a mediocre car. Until 2009 I never liked Hamilton, but his image improved a bit in my eyes precisely because he was doing SOMETHING in a mediocre car. Obviously he wouldn't become champion when that is impossible, but we saw many good, aggressive drives from him, some maybe too aggressive, but that's racing. Contrasting with Button's victories it was like a bit of fresh air in a closed up room. Also he matured that year, maybe not enough but it was a positive change in attitude, which should be acknowledged, and he definitely didn't whine half as much as he could have. Give credit where credit is due, I say.

[Rainmaster 7]

Except for the insults, I'm on Abbas's side. If you respect Alonso for something you despise Hamilton for, then you're not a neutral fan. Plus, even if you're defeinding Vettel's ability to mature (why should he, if he had stayed the same level-headed kid he was in 2008 he wouldn't even need to mature now, but anyways...) that doesn't mean you have to insult another person for not understanding you, when you talked about 10 different things in your post (yes, I also didn't get your "after Hungary" reference, so you could have explained calmly if you indeed meant that, I think).

And, before reading the last N posts, I was thinking of what JHS said about Hammy in a mediocre car. Until 2009 I never liked Hamilton, but his image improved a bit in my eyes precisely because he was doing SOMETHING in a mediocre car. Obviously he wouldn't become champion when that is impossible, but we saw many good, aggressive drives from him, some maybe too aggressive, but that's racing. Contrasting with Button's victories it was like a bit of fresh air in a closed up room. Also he matured that year, maybe not enough but it was a positive change in attitude, which should be acknowledged, and he definitely didn't whine half as much as he could have. Give credit where credit is due, I say.

[JHS 1]

Idiot.

I guess you think everyone's idiots who disagree with you then? Based on some of your previous posts where you just bash people with nothing constructive to say, it seems you do.

I couldn't give a sh*t if you think I'm wrong, I never said I was right. It is a freaking opinion. Geez.

Are we not even allowed those anymore?

Fist waving and general moaning is completely different in my mind. One shows passion, the other's the kid who is disappointed with all his Christmas presents.

[Jean Todt 4]

Fist waving and general moaning is completely different in my mind. One shows passion, the other's the kid who is disappointed with all his Christmas presents.

The baby that cries the loudest gets fed the most.... Pity you don't understand.....oh yes I forgot....you can't..

Funny...as you are a self proclaimed neutral fan you only hear Lewis complain...while there were drivers out there who complained about their lack of horsepower on their engines even when they were trashing everyone.

[Max Mosley 2]

An entertaining thread. I love how there seems to be a generation gap between the calm posters and the angry ones, and how the elder statesmen think they're above it all.

By now I probably should know better too, but you're all idiots. And I think you all raised some good points.

[pabloh20 1]

An entertaining thread. I love how there seems to be a generation gap between the calm posters and the angry ones, and how the elder statesmen think they're above it all.

By now I probably should know better too, but you're all idiots. And I think you all raised some good points.

There's no thinking involved

No wait