Persevere 0 Report post Posted October 31, 2010 Ah, this is a much better thread than I anticipated. You're right, George. Zombies, tactless & insensitive remarks about Germany, and Maure: it doesn't get any f***ing better than this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Delta 0 Report post Posted October 31, 2010 How many points should we take off Hamilton because of all the times Kova was forced to let him pass? Does he still have a championship? 0, because there is no incriminating radio traffic to prove that the team ever issued a command to him. Even if McLaren did use team orders, they did it in a way that left no evidence, IE properly. Everyone knows that all teams employ orders from time to time, so under your premise we could take points off of pretty much every driver that has ever won a championship. Ferrari's folly was doing it publicly and so obviously. How many points should we take off Button because FIA made sure BrawnGP and only BrawnGP had the fvking diffuser for so long? Does he still have a championship?Speaking of Brawn, how come he is not a "genius" anymore? Adding insult to injury, go Webber! Again, 0, because Williams and Toyota also ran the double diffuser. The FIA declared it legal, and didn't attempt to prevent the other teams from running with it, so you can't blame the FIA for the fact that the teams where slow in taking up the development. Ross Brawn warned the other teams and the FIA about the loophole, they chose to ignore him so it is their own fault. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maure 1 Report post Posted October 31, 2010 0, because there is no incriminating radio traffic to prove that the team ever issued a command to him. Even if McLaren did use team orders, they did it in a way that left no evidence, IE properly. Everyone knows that all teams employ orders from time to time, so under your premise we could take points off of pretty much every driver that has ever won a championship. Ferrari's folly was doing it publicly and so obviously. Nonsense. To claim that cheating "properly" (whatever your standards of "properly" are) equals no cheating is self-delusion. Again, 0, because Williams and Toyota also ran the double diffuser. The FIA declared it legal, and didn't attempt to prevent the other teams from running with it, so you can't blame the FIA for the fact that the teams where slow in taking up the development. Ross Brawn warned the other teams and the FIA about the loophole, they chose to ignore him so it is their own fault. Nonsense. Renault and RBR were explicitly forbidden by Whiting from developing their diffusers _pre-season_ while BrawnGP got the "go ahead" by the very same swine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikathegreat2 2 Report post Posted October 31, 2010 Welcome back maure! The forums have been practically dead without you ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maure 1 Report post Posted October 31, 2010 Welcome back maure! The forums have been practically dead without you ! Thanks... don't recognize your handle, though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikathegreat2 2 Report post Posted October 31, 2010 Thanks... don't recognize your handle, though. mikathegreat2 here! Changed my name to spice things up a lil! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JHS 1 Report post Posted October 31, 2010 mikathegreat2 here! Changed my name to spice things up a lil! Wonder what made you want to change..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maure 1 Report post Posted October 31, 2010 mikathegreat2 here! Changed my name to spice things up a lil! I remember that handle. What's up with the Villeneuve thingy? He is a good driver. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Persevere 0 Report post Posted November 1, 2010 In an attempt to put this thread to rest (or rest in peace), a footnote. Changing over my calendar in work this morning I note that November 2 is, of course, "Day of The Dead" in Mexico. My first thought is of our fallen one, the not-so-quiet one, who has bravely - and candidly I would add - discussed his affliction. We should all be so forthcoming. Long may your freak flag fly, oh dead one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikathegreat2 2 Report post Posted November 1, 2010 I remember that handle. What's up with the Villeneuve thingy? He is a good driver. He's an arrogant pr1ck who thinks everyone should worship him cos he won a WDC! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Delta 0 Report post Posted November 1, 2010 Nonsense. To claim that cheating "properly" (whatever your standards of "properly" are) equals no cheating is self-delusion. I never made that claim at all, I think you should consider reading my post. The point I was making was that whether they actually used team orders or not is irrelevant, because if there is no evidence of team orders you cannot issue a punishment, and there is no decisive evidence that McLaren did. And by your own diction, if we are to take points off of every driver who was assisted by team orders, then we should also take the 10 points off Raikkonen that he earned at the Brazilian GP in 2007 as he was clearly team order assisted past Massa. Whilst I don't actually think that, it's not as much fun when your irrational argument can also be used against you, is it? Nonsense. Renault and RBR were explicitly forbidden by Whiting from developing their diffusers _pre-season_ while BrawnGP got the "go ahead" by the very same swine. I am pretty sure that applied to previous seasons, not 2009 where the regulations where different. Not to mention that Charlie is the race director, he is not a steward, and the ultimate authority at a Grand Prix track as to whether the car is race legal is the stewards. Charlie cannot prevent the teams developing parts, he can only advise them, but he has no regulatory power, so if the teams disagree with his assessment they have the right to ignore him if they wish. He is only one person, and can only give his own opinion. If the FIA's technical delegates disagree with his interpretation it is up to them to apply that accordingly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maure 1 Report post Posted November 2, 2010 He's an arrogant pr1ck who thinks everyone should worship him cos he won a WDC! On that account, he wouldn't be the only one. But he's won a bunch of sht besides F1. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maure 1 Report post Posted November 2, 2010 I never made that claim at all, I think you should consider reading my post. The point I was making was that whether they actually used team orders or not is irrelevant, because if there is no evidence of team orders you cannot issue a punishment, and there is no decisive evidence that McLaren did. And by your own diction, if we are to take points off of every driver who was assisted by team orders, then we should also take the 10 points off Raikkonen that he earned at the Brazilian GP in 2007 as he was clearly team order assisted past Massa. Whilst I don't actually think that, it's not as much fun when your irrational argument can also be used against you, is it? Amusing. Of course Kimi won in 07 because Massa let him pass in Brazil. That would've been Alonso's 3rd championship, otherwise. The question is... why wasn't it (Alonso's)? Because there was "no evidence" of Ferrari _evident_ cheat? Nope. It was so because FIA decided so. As simple as that. FIA could've decided anything they wanted for they have demonstrated year after year that they believe to be above it all. Thus, FIA's absolute discredit... except on the eyes of the likes of you that cling to "evidence" for dear existence. And, so, my earlier post... the same you didn't read on account of our irrationality (endearingly naive of you, the confession). Cheating is not measured by its "public" evidence, little grasshopper, cheating is measured by the act of doing so. I am pretty sure that applied to previous seasons, not 2009 where the regulations where different. Not to mention that Charlie is the race director, he is not a steward, and the ultimate authority at a Grand Prix track as to whether the car is race legal is the stewards. Charlie cannot prevent the teams developing parts, he can only advise them, but he has no regulatory power, so if the teams disagree with his assessment they have the right to ignore him if they wish. He is only one person, and can only give his own opinion. If the FIA's technical delegates disagree with his interpretation it is up to them to apply that accordingly. Boy, ain't you tripping on some truly goofy stuff. As race director (amusing, isn't it?), Whiting has fixed more races than anyone can remember, continues to do so... and, apparently, to your delight. Ultimately, the fun thing about Whiting is not that he is the very definition of corruption but that he perverts racing without even an attempt to leave "no evidence"... which must be odd (to you) because you claim it is all about evidence. In any case, your claim of what Whiting can and cannot prevent is absurd self-delusion (again). The fact is that Whiting told RBR and Renault during _pre-season_ that the diffuser was a no-go while telling Brawn that it was OK. It's even recorded on FIA's conveniently-sooooo-late report on the matter. You claim Whiting's word does not count and we agree as long as you mean that it does not count as _honest_. RBR and Renault learned that lesson well. Unfortunately, it does them no good because Whiting (and FIA as a whole) is as accountable as untraceable in their chain of responsibility since they require the necessity to act arbitrarily to simply exist. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yurp 0 Report post Posted November 2, 2010 Jolly good - Maure's back! I was wondering why the season had been so damn enjoyable this year. Thank god we have you back to save us from our innocent enjoyment. Now everything can get back to normal - the usual racist fix perpetrated by the evil/choking british - yay! Welcome back Maure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maure 1 Report post Posted November 2, 2010 Hold on. You call the serious lack of activity in the forums "enjoyable"? Search your chest for a heart. And, you bet. If a Brit were in the running, there would be even more meddling by FIA. However, the forum's Brits and their acolytes have become too cynical and learned to bite _even_though_ the Brit press continues to hit an all time low. Last, I don't recognize your handle. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yurp 0 Report post Posted November 2, 2010 I was wondering why the season had been so damn enjoyable this year. You call the serious lack of activity in the forums "enjoyable"? That didn't take long. See if you can answer your question for yourself. EDIT - I've generously added the red formatting. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maure 1 Report post Posted November 3, 2010 If that's the best you can do... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikathegreat2 2 Report post Posted November 3, 2010 He was formerly adamstrags, if that rings any bells for you! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Delta 0 Report post Posted November 3, 2010 [quote name='maure' timestamp='1288661817' post='325071'] Amusing. Of course Kimi won in 07 because Massa let him pass in Brazil. That would've been Alonso's 3rd championship, otherwise. The question is... why wasn't it (Alonso's)? Because there was "no evidence" of Ferrari _evident_ cheat? Nope. It was so because FIA decided so. As simple as that. FIA could've decided anything they wanted for they have demonstrated year after year that they believe to be above it all. Thus, FIA's absolute discredit... except on the eyes of the likes of you that cling to "evidence" for dear existence. And, so, my earlier post... the same you didn't read on account of our irrationality (endearingly naive of you, the confession). Cheating is not measured by its "public" evidence, little grasshopper, cheating is measured by the act of doing so.[/quote] Christ, can you actually read anything properly? What I said was IF YOU HAVE NO EVIDENCE YOU CANNOT MAKE A CASE. The hunch of one person on a forum who just happens to hate a certain driver does not make for evidence. I am not trying to claim that it is acceptable, but a punishment cannot be issued on a whim without evidence, and sadly for you all of the hatred that you direct at Lewis Hamilton in the world will not make the FIA change their minds on that matter. [quote]Boy, ain't you tripping on some truly goofy stuff. As race director (amusing, isn't it?), Whiting has fixed more races than anyone can remember, continues to do so... and, apparently, to your delight. Ultimately, the fun thing about Whiting is not that he is the very definition of corruption but that he perverts racing without even an attempt to leave "no evidence"... which must be odd (to you) because you claim it is all about evidence. In any case, your claim of what Whiting can and cannot prevent is absurd self-delusion (again). The fact is that Whiting told RBR and Renault during _pre-season_ that the diffuser was a no-go while telling Brawn that it was OK. It's even recorded on FIA's conveniently-sooooo-late report on the matter. You claim Whiting's word does not count and we agree as long as you mean that it does not count as _honest_. RBR and Renault learned that lesson well. Unfortunately, it does them no good because Whiting (and FIA as a whole) is as accountable as untraceable in their chain of responsibility since they require the necessity to act arbitrarily to simply exist. [/quote] I didn't claim that the teams don't listen to him, I claimed, and I am right that Charlie has no regulatory authority, and he has no say in how drivers and teams are punished, he can only voice opinions. The FIA may listen to his input on certain matters, but he has absolutely no say whatsoever in their decisions. He is there to make decisions pertaining to the running of the race, like deployment of the marshals, when to stop and start the race, when to deploy the Safety Car ETC, and in all the time I have been watching F1, I have never seen him make a call that I would consider biased in any sense. As for your other insane accusations... Do you have the slightest evidence that he told Brawn one thing and Renault another? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yurp 0 Report post Posted November 3, 2010 If that's the best you can do... *sigh* I know you just want an answer, so I'll make you happy this once... As you (deliberately) missed the point, here it is plain and simple - If you can't read a simple sentence without misconstruing it, why should I bother? If (through ingrained habit) you can't do anything other than read x but reply to y, how is any kind of intelligent discourse to be had? It's a shame, because you're an intelligent person, but you still find the dissemblance and contrariness of a 14 year old amusing. You will make some other misreading of this post along with some sarcastic jibe or another. It's all so predicatable and boring, so perhaps you should just not bother. Either way, I've given you more attention than you merit. Goodbye. He was formerly adamstrags, if that rings any bells for you! He knew already - or else he's actually a real thicky with a thesaurus. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maure 1 Report post Posted November 4, 2010 He was formerly adamstrags, if that rings any bells for you! Nope What I said was IF YOU HAVE NO EVIDENCE YOU CANNOT MAKE A CASE. ... The rest is babble, so I'll skip it. FIA has made cases with _no_evidence_ plenty of times. Your blindness to the actual state of events is endearing. ... Charlie has no regulatory authority, and he has no say in how drivers and teams are punished, he can only voice opinions. Again, the babble is a bore, so out with it. Whiting does as he pleases which is why _everyone_ looks at him for the "say-so". To claim otherwise is endearing. Does Whiting get stepped on every so often by higher up swines? Of course. You seem not know (or want to acknowledge) what modern F1 and FIA _are_. They emerged out of the so-called "FISA-FOCA war", the result of which was that Ecclestone put his lawyer (Mosley) as president of FIA, his chief mechanic (Whiting) as race director, and himself as owner of TV rights. The events are referred to as a "coup" although they simply were grave robbers. Are you naive enough to still think "evidence" is worth sht to these bunch of motherfvckers? Please. Just look at how they took down the mass-dumper. It's hilarious. Of course, all one has to do is to take a look at the many, many, many irrational decisions they've made over the years. Evidence has never matter _one_bit_ to these gangsters. Most fixes have been carried out via Whiting as his job is precisely the dirtiest one (although the calls are not his, he just barks and lies). Some have fallen on Mosley. Few on Ecclestone since, after all, he is the employer of them all and has put those two clowns there (and many others) to do as he desires. ... Another babbler. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikathegreat2 2 Report post Posted November 4, 2010 Ladies & adam.... I am here today to proudly announce the re-birth of the totalf1.com forums! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jean Todt 4 Report post Posted November 4, 2010 Ladies & adam.... I am here today to proudly announce the re-birth of the totalf1.com forums! the return of the cattle dung smell said it all... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eric 0 Report post Posted November 4, 2010 Ladies & adam.... I am here today to proudly announce the re-birth of the totalf1.com forums! Not even close to the glory days. This forum had so much more overtaking fun in 2007. I'll make a graph/table if that helps. the return of the cattle dung smell said it all... I was thinking more along the lines of a muddy capybara eating tuna and passing flatulence, but we got to the same place in the end, didn't we? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JHS 1 Report post Posted November 4, 2010 Not even close to the glory days. This forum had so much more overtaking fun in 2007. I'll make a graph/table if that helps. I blame the changes made to the forum since 2007! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites